Back to IDNET, but something's gone wrong...?

RCS2K4 · May 15, 2012, 13:03:22

Hey all,

I'm back on IDNET again (migrated from ~~Sly's~~ Sky's LLU). Connection with them was fast - Exchange sync was 24688 KB/Sec Down, and 1875 KB/Sec Up (Act thruput was 21MB/Sec or so), but left because of some cr*ppy internet ToS surrounding usage. Anyway, back on IDNET today, and with one thing and another the router had to re-boot 3-4 times on first log-in and the sync speed has nose dive (Will this recover during the training period?). Some line stats are also very odd:

Sync speed: 2114 KB/Sec Down, 366 KB/Sec Up
Line Attenuation: 120 Down, 48 Up (WTF?)
SnR Margin: 153 Down, 103 Up (Again, WTF?)

Those line stats are lot higer than my Sky Router reported for this same line. Line attenuation down was 4.7, up was about 6.8. SNR margin was 7 down, 9 up.

Should I be concerned?

(Router is a TP-Link TD-W8960N)

Lance · May 15, 2012, 13:07:45

Welcome back!

Have you got a spare router? Those are some seriously odd figures and with those I wouldn't expect you to have any sort of connection. Obviously the move back from LLU to a BT line is a physical change at the exchange so its possible something has gone wrong.

RCS2K4 · May 15, 2012, 13:17:41

Erm, I have a Netgear DGND3300 v2 but it's at mums house so I could go fetch it later? With a supposed attenuation of 120 then I would also suspect it shouldnt connect.

Maybe the routers just reporting them wrong - Thats a possibility. It says max line speed attainable is 23716 tho, so that looks promising. I'll get a screenshot, as speeds are all over the place (It's sync at 15MB or so now)...

RCS2K4 · May 15, 2012, 13:20:18

Router Stats Screen:

RCS2K4 · May 15, 2012, 14:34:27

It's fluctuating up and down like a yo-yo. Connected now at 19 MB... :-) I guess it's a non-issue now...

Rik · May 15, 2012, 16:01:23

Is that d/s attenuation still 120db?

RCS2K4 · May 15, 2012, 16:36:48

Yeah, it is...?

mk1 · May 15, 2012, 16:38:19

Must have extended your connection to my Exchange Lol. Welcome to nice slow Internet.!!!

mk1 · May 15, 2012, 16:39:52

I thought 60db was the max you can get on adsl2+?

RCS2K4 · May 15, 2012, 16:45:53

Quote from: mk1 on May 15, 2012, 16:39:52
I thought 60db was the max you can get on adsl2+?

It is, and at 60db you'll be getting 1-2 MB only. I think the routers a little bit iffy, as there's no way the line attenuation is actually 120 - I have a connection, and the telephone exchange is barely 100-150 yards away (hence the low attenuation I got with Sky). I'm tempted to just leave it and let the line training complete?

Steve · May 15, 2012, 17:11:04

Any chance it's 12 and not 120?

MisterW · May 15, 2012, 17:28:58

QuoteIs that d/s attenuation still 120db?

QuoteYeah, it is...?

No it isn't!
Look carefully , the TP link reports attenuation and SNR in units of 0.1db

QuoteAny chance it's 12 and not 120?

Exactly.
The SNR is a bit high at 15db though, tends to indicate some noise on the line.
Have you got any extensions and is the ring wire connected ?

RCS2K4 · May 15, 2012, 17:41:21

Oops, I had not noticed that MisterW - Thanks! (+1 Karma). Sync rate's held currently at 19MB, and SNR has fallen to 135, or 13.5 in TP-Links world. That should keep on falling???

I don't have any extensions, and the router's plugged straight into the microfilter / telephone socket. I have a Sky Hd box and a Landline phone plugged into the telephone socket of the same microfilter, but they never gave any issues on Sky...?

I had read reports about sky HD boxes adding a lot of noise tho, is this true and is it best to just disconnect it?

Rik · May 15, 2012, 17:47:34

Yes, unless you have multi-room, don't let the devil's spawn near your phone line.

MisterW · May 15, 2012, 17:50:58

I've seen a TPLink before so I knew about the 0.1db as soon as I saw your first post of the stats.

Since you've just been connected I suspect your line is stabilising and will be a bit erratic for a day or two until it finds the best balance between speed and SNR. You're right about Sky Boxes though, sometimes double-filtering, by cascading one microfilter off another, can improve matters.

RCS2K4 · May 15, 2012, 17:53:17

Noted, I just yanked the Sky HD box from the phoneline and the line disconnected. It re-established link and SnR fell to 5.1 - How the hell...

Sync has increased to 20MB too, but it now says the max attainable speed is "only" 21136. That had better go up, as I got 24 MB sync with Sky and expect the same here...!

I've had a total of 6-8 disconnects today alone, so is this buggering up the training profile??? Most were router re-sets when it was saving IDNET credentials, and then a firmware upgrade, and then again just now when I yanked the Sky Box... Exchange prolly can't tell the difference tho?

Glenn · May 15, 2012, 18:02:45

BT profiles the line, so you may not get the same d/l speed.

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,1904.msg31527.html#msg31527

Steve · May 15, 2012, 18:15:59

An increase in sync with a corresponding reduction in margin is good news, an increase in margin with the same sync means that noise or interference has reduced. However a reducing margin with the same sync means noise or interference is increasing as is a reduction in sync whatever the margin ( usually increased) is down to noise or interference.

RCS2K4 · May 15, 2012, 18:24:50

Ahhhh, I see - Thanks both :-) I'm optimistic and aiming to be profiled into that 23840+ banding. My router is starting to stabalise I think - SnR is holding steady, speed is the same. The router is reporting again under the "Attainable Rate (Kbps)" that a speed of 24776 is being targeted after it fell for a bit when I pullled the HD box.

Now i'll just wait a few days?

RCS2K4 · May 15, 2012, 22:20:38

Strike that optimisim for a 24MB sync, my line is all over the place. Sync has fallen back to just over 11MB (Thruput is just under 2MB), and SnR has risen to 16???

Honestly, you leave it for 4 hours with no intervention and it gets worse. This isn't how I remember my 5+ years of service from IDNET just under a year ago :-/

Edit: Added speed test

Lance · May 15, 2012, 23:03:15

Unfortunately the line connection and sync is down to BT with no involvement from IDNet.

RCS2K4 · May 16, 2012, 14:06:03

Hmm, I rang IDNET about the slow thruput Vs. sync and they said I just need to leave it connected for the next 3 days without touching it. It may then start to speed up (may?).

I don't get why BT's system needs to be so stupidly cautious? On Be and Sky's LLU, it sets a speed right away and then me or the ISP can increase it even further if the line's stable. She said it could take 10 days to 2 weeks for that to get anywhere near the speeds I got on this line from Sky - And ultimately may not actually reach the speeds I got on sky due to profile banding...

Rik · May 16, 2012, 14:15:19

Welcome to the world of BT.

Steve · May 16, 2012, 16:43:23

You can find your current IP profile by perfoming the full BT speedtest.The profile tends to fall quickly on an unstable line but sadly takes days to recover.

psp83 · May 16, 2012, 19:24:23

Quote from: Steve on May 16, 2012, 16:43:23
You can find your current IP profile by perfoming the full BT speedtest.The profile tends to fall quickly on an unstable line but sadly takes days to recover.

That depends, if you have a big increase (> 1000) it recovers quite fast... and isn't your profile 88% of your sync now on 21cn products?