new macs

[Baz]

now i'm not up on these things but did I see some where that the new Macs have memory soldered to the M/B   and screws with their own special shape slot, not a slot head or cross head/pozidrive or torx bit but a special design to stop people taking it apart.



and they are £1800 ish 

[pctech]

Wouldn't surprise me.

They have to justify the price tag for what is now essentially an Intel PC with heavily customised BIOS firmware.

Yep I'll get accused of being anti Apple but it isn't exactly a computer enthusiast's machine anymore which is lets not forget how the two Steves started out, or rather Woz did, Jobs was just the business/salesman.

He even tried to take credit for Jonathon Ive's designs.

The machines are very nice but the company sucks.

[Gary]

The machines are very nice but the company sucks.

I take it have not had the benefit of their customer service and since you don't own any Apple products why are you posting such contrived dislike? The computers are not and never have really been hobbyist machines, so your statement really is just reactionary as I see it. This board is for posting about Macs, not starting flame wars.

[Najarak]

Baz,

Which Macs are you referring to? I have a recent iMac and a MacBook Pro, both of them include instructions for changing the memory by the user. I have not done it on the laptop, but have changed the memory on the iMac, simplicity itself, although slightly nerve wracking.

Replacing the memory with Crucial's modules was about £400 cheaper than buying the iMac from Apple with 16GB of memory.

[Gary]

New Mac book Pros with the retina screens have ram soldiered in them. http://www.gev.com/2012/06/ifixit-says-that-retina-macbook-pro-is-the-least-repairable-notebook/ 

"Keep in mind that this device actually can't be upgraded once you acquire it. Like the MacBook Air, MacBook Pro's memory is fused to the logic board, eradicating the possibility of a RAM upgrade later"

[Simon]

Wouldn't surprise me.

They have to justify the price tag for what is now essentially an Intel PC with heavily customised BIOS firmware.

Yep I'll get accused of being anti Apple but it isn't exactly a computer enthusiast's machine anymore which is lets not forget how the two Steves started out, or rather Woz did, Jobs was just the business/salesman.

He even tried to take credit for Jonathon Ive's designs.

The machines are very nice but the company sucks.

I take it have not had the benefit of their customer service and since you don't own any Apple products why are you posting such contrived dislike? The computers are not and never have really been hobbyist machines, so your statement really is just reactionary as I see it. This board is for posting about Macs, not starting flame wars.

Have to agree with Gary, Mitch - there doesn't seem to be any reason for your post, other than to have yet another pop at Apple.  This really is getting rather tiresome.   

[Baz]

like Gary says   


those ones 

[Baz]

aww come on guys    I didnt mean to start any thing just pointing something out.

people are allowed their opinion surely whether good or bad.

[pctech]

I take it have not had the benefit of their customer service and since you don't own any Apple products why are you posting such contrived dislike? The computers are not and never have really been hobbyist machines, so your statement really is just reactionary as I see it. This board is for posting about Macs, not starting flame wars.

Errrr, incorrect on both counts


Feel free to remove the post, anyone who posts a criticism of Apple here seems to get shot down.

I'm for giving the user control, after all, its their money.

Think I'll go in search of some unbiased debate.

[Simon]

Mitch, you're probably the most biased person here, regarding Apple products! 

Let's not fall out, but the purpose of the separate Apple board was to avoid platform wars. 

[Rik]

Plus the reviews I've seen of Windows 8 suggest that:

Yep I'll get accused of being anti Apple but it isn't exactly a computer enthusiast's machine anymore which is lets not forget how the two Steves started out, or rather Woz did, Jobs was just the business salesman.

Will soon apply to Microsoft too.

http://www.itpro.co.uk/641209/microsoft-users-struggle-with-windows-redesign?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=itpro_newsletter

[Tacitus]

Plus the reviews I've seen of Windows 8 suggest that:
Will soon apply to Microsoft too.
http://www.itpro.co.uk/641209/microsoft-users-struggle-with-windows-redesign?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=itpro_newsletter

I agree, it's hilarious watching the Apple haters fall over themselves to praise MS copy of the iPad, having proclaimed the Apple version to be a waste of time since you can't upgrade it.  Still, apparently the Surface has several USB ports, probably a parallel port as well and, I doubt it will be significantly cheaper than the equivalent iPad unless MS subsidises it to gain market share.

Actually I doubt the Surface is aimed at consumers - it's more about protecting MS corporate market in the age of BYOD.

Charles Arthur has an interesting piece in the Guardian this morning.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jun/19/microsoft-surface-software-giant-apple

[Rik]

"With great respect to Apple, there's no way anything gets to critical mass with Apple, because Apple just doesn't have the volumes."

Famous last words. 

I'm a recent convert, Sue bought me an iPad 2 to help me stay online while I was ill, we found we were queuing up to use it, so I bought me an iPad 3. Undoubtedly, there are some things they don't do well, or easily. But 80% plus of my needs are now met by the pads.

[Simon]

Is the 3 much of an improvement over the 2?  It doesn't seem to spell any better. 

[Rik]

That it doesn't.  The camera is massively improved, the screen is noticeably better. If you don't need the camera, buy the 2 and save money or add memory.

[Simon]

I don't really need either.  I can't see that I would use one at home much, and wouldn't want to carry one around either.

[Rik]

I think you would quickly find you did use one at home quite a lot. I certainly do, Sue rarely turns on a computer and I believe I'm right in saying that Steve uses his pad for much of the time.

[Simon]

I think I would use it as much as I currently use my phone, which, admittedly, is quite a bit, but the iPad would merely replace it.  I can't see that I have the need for two similar devices.   

[Rik]

Ageing eyes? 

[Tacitus]

I could see the 3 being used in Hospitals for viewing x-rays or scans of various sorts.  In fact I sat next to a surgeon on the train to Leeds who was doing just that. 

I'm wondering whether to get one to replace my ageing MacBook.  Pair it with a keyboard, preferably one of those folding ones you used to get for the Palm and I reckon I could do 80% of my stuff with one. 

The alternative is another MacBook, probably an Air since I'm getting a bit old for carting stuff around.  Much as I like the 15" Retina display I really couldn't justify the price even with Higher Ed discount, although the weight is much the same as the 13"

[Lance]

The only time I tend to use my laptop these days is for working with photographs or for extended typing. Most other things I can do on my ipad or if there is the rare occasion to use a webpage insisting on using flash, I use vnc to connect to my server and view it through that.

If I got a keyboard for the extended typing and didn't work on photographs I wouldn't need a laptop/desktop at all.

[Tacitus]

Anybody interested in the new Surface should watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSj8GUZDuac

Brutal....   

[Gary]

Anybody interested in the new Surface should watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSj8GUZDuac

Brutal....   

 

[Bill]

Anybody interested in the new Surface...

... should pay heed to Wolfgang Pauli:

... surfaces were invented by the devil

[Tacitus]

... should pay heed to Wolfgang Pauli:
... surfaces were invented by the devil

And Gates is his familiar?

[Den]

Linda wanted a iPad as she did not fancy a laptop. It is the most under used toy in the house as I would rather use my PC any day. If I won the lotto and stopped working I would most likely buy a Mac just because I could and would no doubt enjoy the learning curve. Until then I will stick with Microsoft as it does everything I want it to do and more. I can understand why people enjoy Mac's as they seem a good machine (although I don't like the thought of everything built into the monitor) but I do object to the way Apple run their company by comparison to Microsoft, but each to their own and live and let live.   

[Gary]

but I do object to the way Apple run their company by comparison to Microsoft

Disguising your dislike about Apple though a thinly veiled post about ipads  is still unfair on the Mac board. I'm sure if someone posted something similar about Microsoft on the MS board you would not like it, so why do it here? 

[Lance]

I'm sorry Gary, but I feel you've gone searching for that. It was a reasonably balanced post. If Den's post was purely the bit you quoted then obviously it could be seen as trying to be argumentative.

[Simon]

I don't honestly see how the way each company is run is really relevant to the products that you buy. It would be cutting one's nose off to spite one's face to not buy an Apple product if you want one, just because you don't like the way the company is managed.  Also, I'm sure Apple and Microsoft are really not all that far apart.

[Den]

Whenever I have used a Apple Mac I have liked what I have seen. 

My point about the way Apple is run is the fact that they charge over the top for the product which is not that far removed from a PC. I always get cross when some one points out that MS should not include IE as part of the operating system but it's OK for Apple with their browser.

My other point concerning the iPad is that it I don't really find it that good but then again I am not a fan of Android either. I suppose I enjoy sitting in front of a monitor with a keyboard and mouse so at the moment Windows 8 is not ringing any bells with me.

Garry, I have two ipods (touch and classic) and prefer the classic so that says something about me and the fact that I prefer the non touch version. 

[Tacitus]

My point about the way Apple is run is the fact that they charge over the top for the product which is not that far removed from a PC.

They charge what people are prepared to pay same as any other business.  What you seemed to be saying is that this is poor business practice.

I always get cross when some one points out that MS should not include IE as part of the operating system but it's OK for Apple with their browser.

Safari is not 'part of the operating system' - AFAIK you can throw it in the bin.  Certainly you can use any browser you like.  At the time of the IE complaint, it was included as part of the operating system and, was embedded within it in order to exclude all other browsers.  That is what I would call unethical but at the time it was par for the course for MS. 

[Technical Ben]

Nah, the reason for MS to have the problem was they were almost a total monopoly. Apple had too small a share to be a worry. Now they are big enough there are two options. Make both open up the OS to other parties. Or as the looks of Windows 8 suggests, use the excuse "It's no longer a monopoly, it's a duopoly (Apple V MS). People can just swap PC/OS for a new internet browser." 

[Den]

I always look on in wonder when I visit a Apple store to see so many people inside, this never happens in a PC store. When my old ipod stpped working I thought I would take it with me when I visited Liverpool as it was a battery change and it's not a good idea to change it yourself. When I got there I was told I needed a appointment and could have one in about 4 days.  As I had traveled about 40miles I thought this was a bit off and decided to take up the offer of the part exchange that they came up with. So I stood there and waited for the Genius Person to arrive and wondered why everyone else had technicians but Apple required a Genius. I decided to buy the iPod touch and took it home and within a month bought a Classic version as well as it hard a much larger memory and suited my needs much better.
In summing up I have three Apple products and three MS products but the MS products get used the most, but only because my needs are for business and to play on. 

[Tacitus]

Nah, the reason for MS to have the problem was they were almost a total monopoly.

True but it doesn't alter the fact that IE was embedded in the OS and Safari isn't.  It may be bundled with the OS but that's not the same thing since you can use any browser you wish - except IE of course.

Make both open up the OS to other parties.

Windows already is since that is currently MS business model.  I think time's probably running out on that since MS, and probably Google, are moving in to direct sales for tablets on the Apple model.  Look to MS buying Nokia as their phone manufacturing division.

[Tacitus]

I always look on in wonder when I visit a Apple store to see so many people inside, this never happens in a PC store.

If you go in the Covent Garden one (assuming you can force your way in, since it's usually packed) you will see foreign tourists taking pictures of themselves inside.  "Wow, this is me inside the Apple Store!!!"  IOW it has become a tourist destination in itself.

Bizarre I know, but that is seriously good marketing    OTOH in the Regent Street one you can never get near the kit, since it's always being used by foreign students using Hotmail and Facebook.

[Glenn]

True but it doesn't alter the fact that IE was embedded in the OS and Safari isn't.  It may be bundled with the OS but that's not the same thing since you can use any browser you wish - except IE of course.

Any browser could still run on XP before they were forced to make the change, just because IE6 was embedded it didn't stop other browsers from being installed.

[Den]

Can someone explain to simple me why Windows can be run on a Mac but the Mac operating system can not be run on a PC. Is it because you can't or because Apple wont let you? This is a genuine question and not Apple beating. 

[Glenn]

The Apple EULA forbids it, but OXS will run happily on some non Apple hardware with a little tweaking.

[Den]

How can Apple forbid it and then have the cheek to run Windows? 

[Simon]

I'm surprised to hear that it does, Den, given Windows' propensity for viruses.  I thought one of the big pulls for a Mac was that you don't need additional security.  Surely running Windows on one is pretty pointless anyway? 

[Glenn]

Standard and Preinstalled Apple Software License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License,
unless you obtained the Apple Software from the Mac App Store or under a volume license, maintenance or
other written agreement from Apple, you are granted a limited, non-exclusive license to install, use and run
one (1) copy of the Apple Software on a single Apple-branded computer at any one time. For example, these
standard single-copy

http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx107.pdf

[Tacitus]

How can Apple forbid it and then have the cheek to run Windows? 

Not a case of 'cheek'.  MS business model involved licensing the OS to the world + dog.  Apple's business was always vertically integrated - they supplied the complete end product, except for a brief period when they did license the OS and nearly went bust. 

In the end if you don't like the product, don't buy it. 

[Den]

Can't justify spending that much on a computer however good it is.    Just changed my desktop and I could have bought three for the price of a Mac. A friend of mine runs a graphic company and always used Macs but this time he has replaced them with PCs as they will do everything he wants at a fraction of the cost.
As I said before if I retired and stopped using accounts packages etc' then I would most likely (if I could still afford to) buy a Mac because I would love to start again and learn something new.

[Tacitus]

Can't justify spending that much on a computer however good it is.    Just changed my desktop and I could have bought three for the price of a Mac.

If you comparre like with like you generally find Macs are much the same price.  In my experience people who say Macs are expensive, generally compare the price of a new Mac with a PCWorld/Aldi special or 'build your own', in which case they will be more expensive. 

Still whatever floats your boat.   

[Simon]

So, if you pay £1800 for a Mac, are you saying it would be a similar spec, as far as storage, processing power, etc, as an £1800 PC, Tac?  If that's the case, and I'm asking, not arguing, then why is it not possible to buy a Mac for £300-400, with PC World / Aldi specs?

[Tacitus]

So, if you pay £1800 for a Mac, are you saying it would be a similar spec, as far as storage, processing power, etc, as an £1800 PC, Tac?

Not sure why you say £1800 but any comparisons I've seen in the past have compared a new Mac with a similarly specced new HP (whatever) and although the Mac generally comes out a little dearer, they are not that far apart.  I think it may be different between (say) iMacs v equivalent HP or, MacBooks v equivalent Lenovo or whatever.  I imagine the 'specials;' are the result of overstocking, bankrupt stock or similar firesales.

I will grant that at present the PowerMacs are overpriced, but I don't think that applies to the iMacs which, last time I looked cost little more than Sony/HP equivalents I have seen.  However since the market is always changing and I don't spend my time doing endless comparisons of which is cheaper or why, it may be that things have changed. 

[Simon]

Thanks, Tac.  I plucked £1800 out of the air, but it is a fairly common price I've seen them advertised for.  Not sure which type those were, though. 

[Glenn]

I just did a comparison too, I think $460 is a fair jump, apart from a 14" screen on the HP the spec is very similar.

13" Macbook Pro with i5 cpu $1189.99 http://www.macconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=14404567&cac=BrandsItem
HP 4440s with i5 cpu $729.00 http://www.macconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=14297360

[Technical Ben]

The Apple branded ATI cards were 3 times the price. Could be the demand pushing it up though.  (Lol as it's an unrelated effect causing the price hike, like the tulips from Amsterdam. There is nothing wrong with tulips, but there is in dodgy sales people ).

[Gary]

Thanks, Tac.  I plucked £1800 out of the air, but it is a fairly common price I've seen them advertised for.  Not sure which type those were, though. 

Basic iMac £999. You can dual boot windows or use VMware etc as Macs use  Intel processors, you have to pay for windows if you do. I choose not to. You can also boot in a Linux distro.