Draytek 2750n

[RogerG]

Is anybody out there using one of these successfully ?   I had a 2800G and it was great, so wanted to sick with Draytek.  I asked them and IDNet, and was told he 2750 was a good replacement for the Openreach 'modem'. 

FTTC day.  BT arrived and connected their box.  I made a PPoE connection to the Openreach modem directly from my lapop.  Works just fine. 

Configured my nice new 2750 with IDNet's credentials and the help in Mikey's guide on the Draytek.
(PPPoE, WAN VLAN ID 101, fixed IP.)

Nothing.  Just get Training/Handshake/Idle, no connection.  I have set this thing up 4 times now, knowing how easy it is to mess up a parameter, and there was a factory reset between tries 3 and 4.

Have I got a duff Router ?  can anybody think of anything else to try ?

Have I got a duff router

[Glenn]

Roger, I can't help with the router, but there are a few Draytek users here who may offer some assistance. Just a though, does it work if you configure it to run as a router off the OR modem?

[MisterW]

fixed IP

I'm not sure that's right. Surely you'll get the IP allocated by the PPPoE connection.
I guess you've seen the settings here:- http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/kb/kb_vigor_v2750_setup.html ?

does it work if you configure it to run as a router off the OR modem

Don't think it has a WAN ethernet port Glenn. It's VDSL or nothing...

[Ray]

 

[RogerG]

Glenn, you guess right, I followed Mikey's guide (http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/kb/kb_vigor_v2750_setup.html ?) to the letter.

MisterW, you too are correct- VDSL or nothing.  It's Sooo frustrating !!!!  I will wait a day or so and see if I receive enlightenment then I guess I'm going to have to return the router.  Draytek are good, but nobody's perfect.

[RogerG]

Fixed IP..... I wondered about that too.  I have a fixed IP, so that is what I put in the 2800 config.  Config attempts #1 & #2 were with fixed IP, config attempt #3 was DHCP, config attempt #4 was back to fixed.   I'm on the BT device at the moment, I might just do a config #5 with DHCP again - it's broken already so no risk !

[Glenn]

Is there anywhere in the settings to input VCI & VPI values? My Fritzbox needs to be set at;
VPI 0
VCI 32

[Steve]

 


Does it work in bridge mode like the OR modem - just wondering where the issue lies and I agree the IP is allocated via the PPPOE connection.

[RogerG]

Just went through my config with IDNet Support.  He thinks the router is broken.  Glad I kept the packaging !   I would still be curious to know if any other IDNetters are using this box, though.

[Ardua]

Have you seen this thread? It suggests that others have had similar issues which have been resolved with the latest firmware.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/4118705-fttc-without-openreach-modem.html?fpart=all&vc=1

Failing that you could always buy a Fritz!Box - FTTC set up is a breeze. ( sorry I couldn't resist it)

This document (page20) seems to suggest that VCI/VPI can be changed/checked.

ftp://ftp.draytek.com/Vigor2850/Manual/UG-Vigor2850-V1.0.pdf

[Simon]

Roger!

[MisterW]

Training/Handshake/Idle

If that's doing what I think it is then its getting a VDSL connection(Training) but failing the PPPoE discovery/Authentication(Handshake) and then going Idle.
Is the password normally blank for an IDNet PPPoE connection ?, I wouldn't know since I'm not an IdNet customer. If so I seem to recall a bug in the 2750 not liking an empty password field and you needed to enter at least one character.

[Ardua]

If that's doing what I think it is then its getting a VDSL connection(Training) but failing the PPPoE discovery/Authentication(Handshake) and then going Idle.
Is the password normally blank for an IDNet PPPoE connection ?, I wouldn't know since I'm not an IdNet customer. If so I seem to recall a bug in the 2750 not liking an empty password field and you needed to enter at least one character.

With my FB7390, I used my original ADSL Username and Password with VLAN 101 set. I am on IDNet 80/20 FTTC. Thinking back, I had issues with Auto settings and I had to set up PPPoE, VLAN VCi etc manually.

[MisterW]

I used my original ADSL Username and Password

That's what was suggested on a BT Infinity forum http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/4074344-bt-infinity-draytek-2750n-connection-issues.html

I installed a 2750n this morning and had the same trouble connecting using the bthomehub@btbroadband.com username with no password. I then tried my pre-infinity broadband username/password and it connected straight away.

[Ardua]

Looking at Zen's Draytek FTTC set up advice, Username and Password are also standard when the Draytek is used just as a FTTC router (ie; connected to the OR modem). Leaving the password blank might just be for Infinity.

[RogerG]

Hi Ardua - I downloaded the latest firmware from Draytek before the FTTC install and refreshed the 2750 as soon as I connected it.  The 2750 manual has no reference to VCI. 

(I don't blame you for the Fritz! snipe, I have been doing that to non-Draytek users for years.  What goes around, comes around I guess)

[RogerG]

If that's doing what I think it is then its getting a VDSL connection(Training) but failing the PPPoE discovery/Authentication(Handshake) and then going Idle.

I am using my IDNet UserID and password, and you describe the fault precisely:


Jan  1 00:13:07 Vigor2750 user.notice root: [WAN] check default route failed:(0), revert WAN state and ifup wan...
Jan  1 00:13:10 Vigor2750 user.info : 15476 root         0 Z    [pppd]
Jan  1 00:13:10 Vigor2750 user.notice ifdown: kill all pppd...
Jan  1 00:13:11 Vigor2750 daemon.info pppd[16645]: Plugin rp-pppoe.so loaded.
Jan  1 00:13:11 Vigor2750 daemon.notice pppd[16646]: pppd 2.4.4 started by root, uid 0
Jan  1 00:13:11 Vigor2750 user.info : IPv6 WAN up
Jan  1 00:13:12 Vigor2750 daemon.info dnsmasq[10342]: reading /tmp/resolv.conf.auto
Jan  1 00:13:12 Vigor2750 daemon.info dnsmasq[10342]: using nameserver 168.95.1.1#53
Jan  1 00:13:12 Vigor2750 daemon.info dnsmasq[10342]: using nameserver 4.2.2.1#53
Jan  1 00:13:12 Vigor2750 daemon.info dnsmasq[10342]: using local addresses only for domain lan
Jan  1 00:13:26 Vigor2750 daemon.warn pppd[16646]: Timeout waiting for PADO packets
Jan  1 00:13:26 Vigor2750 daemon.err pppd[16646]: Unable to complete PPPoE Discovery

[FritzBox]

(I don't blame you for the Fritz! snipe, I have been doing that to non-Draytek users for years.  What goes around, comes around I guess)

Had a Draytek 2800VG once, awful router, constant disconnections ADSL and wireless

The Fritz 7390 is a lot less troublesome 

[Ardua]

Just a thought, what VCI and VPI settings are you using?

[MisterW]

I didn't think VCI/VPI were used on VDSL.
@RogerG, have you tried just leaving it for a while. This http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,98454.0.html sounds remarkably similar. The two people on there with the same problem, it seems that it just worked eventually.

[Ardua]

I didn't think VCI/VPI were used on VDSL.
@

I have just checked my Fritz!Box 7390 DSL Account Page. It is showing the following settings:

VLAN 101

VPI  1

VCI  38

PPPoE on a DSL connection 

[MisterW]

The 2750 doesn't have anywhere to set VPI/VCI. I suspect that's because its VDSL only, whereas the 7390 can do ADSL & VDSL.
AFAIK VDSL/FTTC doesn't have an ATM layer and as such doesn't have VCI/VPI. It uses VLAN tagging, hence the need to set VLAN ID 101. It would be interesting to see if changing the VCI/VPI settings on your 7390 has any effect...     

[Ardua]

The 2750 doesn't have anywhere to set VPI/VCI. I suspect that's because its VDSL only, whereas the 7390 can do ADSL & VDSL.
AFAIK VDSL/FTTC doesn't have an ATM layer and as such doesn't have VCI/VPI. It uses VLAN tagging, hence the need to set VLAN ID 101. It would be interesting to see if changing the VCI/VPI settings on your 7390 has any effect...     

Have a look at the PDF that I sent you in an earlier e-mail - VDSL Security Settings. Page 20 suggests that you can access the settings which should be detected automatically. As I said earlier, my FB didn't pick up theses settings automatically. I have no idea why but after I did a manual configuration it worked. That said, VDSL does take a while to connect - much longer than ADSL.

Setting VCI and VPI was on advice from others who had used FTTC from the start. There are no threads suggesting that these settings are unimportant when using VDSL. I am reluctant to play around with my settings to prove a point as my modem has remained in synch since BT last did some PEW on my exchange some weeks ago.

[Ardua]

Have you seen this forum where 2750N users are experiencing similar issues and appear to be coming up with solutions?


http://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity/Draytek-Vigor-2750n-Connection-Issues/td-p/355021/highlight/true

[RogerG]

@RogerG, have you tried just leaving it for a while. This http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,98454.0.html sounds remarkably similar. The two people on there with the same problem, it seems that it just worked eventually.

I left it on for 2 hours before carefully packing it away and asking broadbandbuyer for a replacement. 

[Steve]

I agree I think that you've spent enough time with that router.
I know Openreach fit two different manufacturers equipment at the FTTC cabinet and I've read vary the OR modem supplied in this case. Just wondering whether this could be a cause of incompatibility in some circumstances.

[MisterW]

Sorry to hijack you thread RogerG.
@Ardua,

Have a look at the PDF that I sent you in an earlier e-mail - VDSL Security Settings

Was that recently ? as I don't seem to have any email.

I am reluctant to play around with my settings to prove a point as my modem has remained in synch since BT last did some PEW on my exchange some weeks ago.

I totally understand, as an engineer I too abide by the principle 'if it works ...'
If you get bored and need some light bedtime reading have a look at this http://home.scarlet.be/~pcoleman/upgrades/vdsl2.pdf
BTW I do agree that the 7390 is a better piece of kit. We actually have one in our Dutch office, it's using ADSL2 though. The VPN capabilities are quite good and it maintains a much more reliable connection back to the UK than the previous kit we had there.

[Steve]

All this talk of the 7390 , do I need one? I haven't bought a router for over a year I'm beginning to think I'm missing out. I suppose it is dual band WiFi I could easily persuade myself.

[Glenn]

My 7390 connects with close to 100% higher latency than the OR modem

OR modem


Fritzbox modem

[Ardua]

See Reply 9 for the link to Draytek VDSL security settings.

The FB7390 is a superb piece of kit. That said, it is not perfect. It has issues on the PSTN side with Ghost Calls and intermittent CLID. Up until a fortnight ago, I would have recommended a £180 purchase from Mom 'ilc. The FB is a dual-band router with Guest Access, WPS etc.

[Steve]

My 7390 connects with close to 100% higher latency than the OR modem

But is that the cause? Did you not have a relatively high latency previously and  I suppose it may not be just coincidence.

[MisterW]

See Reply 9 for the link to Draytek VDSL security settings.

That's a link to the 2850, that's ADSL/VDSL capable, and against the VCI/VPI settings it does say ADSL only. The 2750 manual doesn't have those settings. 

[Ardua]

That's a link to the 2850, that's ADSL/VDSL capable, and against the VCI/VPI settings it does say ADSL only. The 2750 manual doesn't have those settings. 

OK. I am afraid this is where my limited amount of knowledge ends. Hope that the router exchange goes smoothly and the new one works.

[MisterW]

I've just been reading the BT SIN for FTTC http://www1.btwebworld.com/sinet/498v3p3a.pdf and I might have a theory as to why the 2750 doesn't work, or sometimes does...
There's this little purler ( in red, so implying it's changed ) on page 9

In order to ensure line rate information reported is accurate, PADI DHCP Discover packets will be dropped for an extended period following VDSL line re-train. This blocking period may last up to 25 seconds. This mechanism avoids blank line rate information being reported by the IA.

Now when the PPPoE connection starts, it sends PADI packets and expects a response ( from the ISP ) PADO packet to establish the MAC addresses of the two endpoints. This is timing out on the 2750 and I suspect its then dropping the VDSL and then retrying, but almost certainly once the VDSL is back in synch it will immediately try to setup the PPPoE again and is probably hitting the 25 second timeout. When using the BT OR modem, of course, it sets up the VDSL connection and only the router does the PPPoE so it will just retry until the 25 seconds has elapsed and then it will connect, since the VDSL link is still up.
If I'm right, then potentially this could affect ANY combined VDSL modem/router if it retrains the VDSL link each time it tries to setup the PPPoE connection.

I wonder if there's any CLI commands to tweak some settings on the 2750... ( goes off to find out )

[Glenn]

But is that the cause? Did you not have a relatively high latency previously and  I suppose it may not be just coincidence.

Steve, that came down after BT fiddled with some cabling, to around 12 - 16ms which is the 1st graph from 9th July, the 2nd is from this week with the Fritzbox connected. I'm leaving it connected to see if when I was messing about with the connection caused the jump.

[MisterW]

Ok, well the CLI manual doesn't seem to have any options for VDSL but then again it was only updated in 2009.
@RogerG,
Did you ever try the latest 1.5.2 Beta firmware on the 2750 ? because looking at the release notes it says

Beta firmware for VDSL line synch issue if Vigor 2750 is unable to obtain successful synch on a specific BT based line.

Have a look at the release notes in the firmware download from here http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/downloads.html

[RogerG]

Have you seen this forum where 2750N users are experiencing similar issues and appear to be coming up with solutions?
http://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity/Draytek-Vigor-2750n-Connection-Issues/td-p/355021/highlight/true

OMG !!  No, and had I seen it I would have picked another router. 

[RogerG]

Did you ever try the latest 1.5.2 Beta firmware on the 2750 ? because looking at the release notes it says
Quote

    Beta firmware for VDSL line synch issue if Vigor 2750 is unable to obtain successful synch on a specific BT based line.

Have a look at the release notes in the firmware download from here http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/downloads.html

Thanks MisterW, I will download the beta and give it one last try.  After that I'm inclined to give up.  I allocated a day to getting this up & running and I'm starting to think I'm wasting my time.

[MisterW]

It's probably worth just the last try, because I suspect that the 2750 isn't faulty and so any replacement is likely to exhibit the same problem ( unless of course you replace it with a 7390 )

[Steve]

Steve, that came down after BT fiddled with some cabling, to around 12 - 16ms which is the 1st graph from 9th July, the 2nd is from this week with the Fritzbox connected. I'm leaving it connected to see if when I was messing about with the connection caused the jump.

It does make me think twice before moving away from an OR approved modem (perhaps a RacingBeat back box would be wiser choice for my pennies.) 

[RogerG]

It's probably worth just the last try, because I suspect that the 2750 isn't faulty and so any replacement is likely to exhibit the same problem ( unless of course you replace it with a 7390 )

Either the Fritz or give up altogether and add a WAP to the lousy OR Huawei.  I would go straight for the Fritz! but I don't think my supplier (Broadbandbuyer) carries them, so I would have to get the cash back from them before buying the Fritz!.  If I have to hit the credit card, then it's definitely a WAP to the Huawei, because I don't want to buy another box that might not work with BT's equipment in my area.

[Lance]

Why not keep it simple and just use the OR supplied modem with something like the Billion 7800n? Not always ideal having two boxes but at least it should work

[RogerG]

Why not keep it simple and just use the OR supplied modem with something like the Billion 7800n? Not always ideal having two boxes but at least it should work

One last try with the beta software and that's exactly what I'm going to do Lance.  I hate giving up, but I'm doing an OU language degree and this is eating up my study time.

[MisterW]

Not always ideal having two boxes but at least it should work

TBH that's one of the main things putting me off getting FTTC. I already have enough boxes without adding another one! If and when the cost of units like the 7390 and 2750 come down to a reasonable level then I might review things...

[jm_paulin]

Hey,

I was using a 2820 connected to the WLAN port, but I think 980/20 was too much for it. I saw some weird NAT issues and ended up having to reboot the router 2-3 times a week. (Yes, I know, NAT is evil). so...

I just got myself a 2850. I did that in 2 steps:
- First kept the BT Model and use the WLAN port on the 2850. kind of worked. I got the speed but I had to reboot the 2850.
- Now thinking of using the 2850 instead of the BT Model. I did a simple test and that worked just fine. I got the same speed as using the WLAN. I like the fact I got the stats for the line (Sync, Db...) . However, I did not test for long so not sure about stability. I got some rewiring to do (mainly get a 30 ft RJ11 extension lead to go from the master socket to where the rooter will sit), then I will update here...

I just followed Mikey's guide but put a priority of 3 in the VLAN tag insertion (not even sure what that is), but I thought it should be the same as the 2750 guide...

[RogerG]

I just got myself a 2850.

Wow - hi spec, more than I need.  Just returned the 2750 to BroadBandBuyer - it works just fine for them !   They have agreed to swap it for a 2130.  I know, I keep the grubby Huawei but at least I will have a router again !!