Blizzard threatened with court action over allegedly misleading packaging

[pctech]

http://www.reghardware.com/2012/07/24/blizzard_faces_court_for_misleading_diablo_3_fans/

[zappaDPJ]

They are under fire from almost every direction in relation to Diablo III. Their Korean offices were raided and they were forced to offer refunds to Korean players. The game sold extremely well but it's been a disaster for them in more ways than one.

[pctech]

People dont want to be tied to online, why don't companies understand this?

[Niall]

Because they're desperately trying to combat piracy. Blizzard may be very poor when it comes to customer service, but if you watch the end credits there are thousands of people they have to pay.

One criticism I'd level at them, knowing how popular their games are, is that they deliberately use too few servers knowing that people will eventually lose interest then the problem soves itself. This is my opinion but why else would they have the same exact problem on EVERY online game release? It really annoys me, especially in the case of D3 as the people that got online and used exploits pre patch and when others like me and my mates were working finally logged in, there were a lot of player with vast amounts of in game gold, with auction house prices so high you would literally have to spend years playing to get that amount of gold. It's now got to the point when I only log in to try and sell the decent items I've found as I don't have enough storage space :-/ It's really poorly thought out. The real money auction house is a complete failure too.

[Simon]

Never heard of them.  I thought the thread was about the weather! 

[Technical Ben]

People dont want to be tied to online, why don't companies understand this?

They only hear "money, money, money, money" as they go about the day?

PS, sorry Niall, IMO it has nothing to do with piracy. There are enough out there making a living without worrying about it to prove it's a non-issue (or at least not requiring this level of defense). Working at the bank, I learnt it's impossible to prevent all crime. It's actually counter productive to try! You would spend so much money on safes you would have nothing left to pay the staff. It's about finding a working environment or changing the business if needed. Granted, online only is a change, but it's one people need to know about or one there needs to be demand for.

I don't think there is the demand in this case. It does not have enough online features to make it worthwhile to most. Secondly, it has as much effect as a chocolate bicycle.

How many millions of copies sold? That was before people knew it had online requirements. How many of the purchases were tech savvy to know how the games DRM worked? How many bought it on the first week (before a DRM crack comes out for most software)? So, within the first week, do you think Blizzard paid it's staff and covered it's costs? If so, why sabotage your own product for the rest of the time?

The only reason most people can see, is it ties people into the online store. Which again, is up to them. It's their product. However, people don't want to pay for that, and unlike physical objects, usually only find out after purchase. So a refund is ok in this instance IMO. However, if this was a subscription only MMO, well, your only paying for how much you use, so if you don't use it, you don't pay.

It's trying to have their cake and eat it that gets me riled up.   

[gizmo71]

t's trying to have their cake and eat it that gets me riled up.

Mmmm, caaaaake.

[Technical Ben]

Lol.
As an example, the amount of Indy developers who sign up exclusive deals with DRM safe and walled garden distribution systems, that then complain they made no money is hilarious*. Compared to the amount that practically give away their software and end up well off. Granted it does not always happen, but those that follow the demand and need, instead of throwing toys out of the pram, tend to do well. Look at the free virus scanning and assistance companies. People bend over backwards to donate to them in thanks for the help they provide.

[zappaDPJ]

I can probably give some insight into Diablo

People dont want to be tied to online, why don't companies understand this?

That is certainly true, many Diablo III players have asked repeatedly for an off-line mode but it won't happen. However, there are far more reasons for this other than the piracy issue which in fact isn't an issue because the game cannot be played without a legitimate key registered to your Battlenet account. Even the gold farmers who run literally hundreds of game sessions concurrently buy their copies. The main reason for the on-line requirement is the auction house, particularly the real money auction house (RMAH). The RMAH is also the main point of contention for players because it has a massive impact on how the game plays. For example, most players know that Blizzard patched in higher percentage drop rates for high item level, rare items. What they didn't know at the time, although a few are now starting to realise, is that Blizzard also continually tweak the the random role rates on item stats. So while you will get more rare items drop of a higher item level, the stats roll on those items has been retarded making most high level items worthless. They do this to ensure the auction houses maintain a stable economy and they do that to ensure that they maintain a predictable income from the RMAH of which they take 15% from every transaction.

[pctech]

Never understood people paying real hard earned for virtual items either.

[Niall]

If you have disposable income, you spend it on game stuff. It's the next level for paying for DLC (downloaded content) to "enhance your game", as EA put it. (enhance your calm, John Spartan )

I've bought some stuff on the RMAH, but only because I've actually sold about £20 worth of items on there, at about £2.49 each. The trouble you have now is the user base is dropping, the players at the top can't sell their high end items as people are getting better items as they progress, and people like me can't progress.

As an example, my Monk has over 30,000 health and 24,000 damage. I've set it up so I get a boost to armour from my dexterity. This has resulted in me being able to easily kill normal mobs in Inferno act 1. As soon as I get chained elites, I'm dead in under 5 seconds. Fight a boss? Forget about it, I'll be dead in less than that. There is literally no way I can play inferno without getting massive upgrades to my gear, which I can't get because I don't have gear good enough to enter areas that actually drop it. I did, the other week while I was off, get a 2 handed sword that does 1200 damage. There are no stats on it, other than damage and I cannot sell it as the game is geared so you HAVE TO use items that get a boost from, or give a boost to your armour/weapon/stats. So, the only way I can play inferno is if I group with my mate, who typically works pretty much the opposite hours as me (my other 4 mates that played have now given up due to this retarded gaming system), so I get a boost from his warrior/barbarian character. Then if we get the right type of elite, we can kill it. Even the odd nasty chained elite.

You simply cannot play this game at inferno level as a monk, without getting the ultimate items, which blizzard has geared the game in such a way as to stop you from doing this unless you pay for it. Your options: gold farmers, risking getting your account hacked or blizzard banning your account, or spending money on the auction house.

THIS is how Blizzard work. They don't give a sh*t about you as they already have your money from buying the game. Now they want more money as it's not a pay per play game, so they make sure you can't play it without paying for items, as they get £1 from every sale.

[pctech]

Yes indeed as the subscription model is collapsing and they'd argue they have to do something to earn income to keep the servers running (most of the data centres make most of their money from adding a fair margin on the cost of power supplied to the racks)

[Niall]

I completely understand their need to make a feasible business structure, but seriously, support your user base, don't shaft them. You're not the tory party ffs.

[pctech]

Indeed and Activision have been around for years.

I'm afraid I think this is the way things will go if games go free to play.

[Niall]

Yeah, and I really don't mind. If they create a game that benefits from DLC, added items you can buy that allows you to play a game in a different way, I'm all for it. If you have a core game that can be played in multiple ways already and you lose nothing from not buying extras, then it's all roses. A great system that supports the community and the company.

I just wish that, in Diablo3s case, they rebalance the game, make inferno easier or at least do something about the cost of items. Cap them or something, it's just unfair how they're stopping me from playing my game to completion.

[Technical Ben]

Lets just say it does not enhance anything. Changing a stat in notepad to a sword (and charging for it) is not DLC in my books. 

[pctech]

Might be advisaeable to complain to them or go and demand your money back.

[Technical Ben]

I'd not buy it. But I do feel sorry for those who do. I can understand charging for a whole map or character. Those things take time to make. I could argue that the price is too high, but it's a free market, we can all make those decisions.

It's the charging for a 100+ sword over a 50+ sword that boggles my mind. As it's a single variable in a program to change. It's what you do as a kid with your toys for free. Companies don't charge you to push a toy car 10 spaces over 5.

Especialy so when I can change the colour of an image in Gimp for free. So an entire skin? Charge for it. A different colour (AKA Guild Wars inks), not for me.

[zappaDPJ]

I'd not buy it. But I do feel sorry for those who do. I can understand charging for a whole map or character. Those things take time to make. I could argue that the price is too high, but it's a free market, we can all make those decisions.

It's the charging for a 100+ sword over a 50+ sword that boggles my mind. As it's a single variable in a program to change. It's what you do as a kid with your toys for free. Companies don't charge you to push a toy car 10 spaces over 5.

Especialy so when I can change the colour of an image in Gimp for free. So an entire skin? Charge for it. A different colour (AKA Guild Wars inks), not for me.

That's not really how it works with Diablo III assuming that Blizzard is not gaming the system in terms of the actual items placed on the real money auction house. What you are paying for is something that a player might well have invested a huge amount of playing time to find. Good items are lottery figures rare i.e. you probably won't find one in 100 hours played. If a good item drops then the player has a choice of using the item (if it's appropriate to them) or selling it on one of the auction houses for in-game currency or real world currency. Blizzard doesn't create the items and put them up for sale, the game creates the items from random rolls and the player has a choice of what they want to do with them.

There is a lot of debate as to how sensible it is to buy 'pixels' for cash but at the end of of the day it's up to the player whether they choose to or not. I run a huge multinational gaming community and Diablo III is one of the games played by some of our members. I play it myself. I only know one player that's used the RMAH and he did it to complete the game. Personally I wouldn't use it, I completed the game a couple of weeks ago and did it through trading items with other players, avoiding the RMAH entirely although I did use the in-game currency based AH.

[Niall]

Lets just say it does not enhance anything. Changing a stat in notepad to a sword (and charging for it) is not DLC in my books. 

It's a good job that's not what we were talking about then Blizzard don't charge you anything, they get a cut of whatever you sell on the RMAH. That's user to user sales that they get a cut of. Simple as that, and it's not game breaking, but what is are the people that got to the end game first pre patch and have a vastly superior character and items, with access to items no one else does, selling items at a price (gold or real money) that is beyond a joke. If Blizzard were to release items and charge for them, then it'd be different, but they don't do that.


I'm just extremely annoyed with the fact that I cannot complete the game single player, with my monk. If the barbarian scales, I should have no problem. The only thing is, everyone I know that got into act 2 of inferno all got a lucky drop that sold for millions on the auction house, allowing them to buy items which in turn allowed them to continue to grind the act in the hope of getting more decent items to replace what they have. I haven't been so lucky, I've got semi decent gear, but cannot progress to the next level due to not having the money and not having the time or inclination to spend another 116 hours hoping for a random drop.

Seriously, what do they expect people with next to no time to do? Play it an hour a week for the next 20 years? Morons, honestly.

You can understand them needing to keep it going in the hope for RMAH sales, but making it so you have to get better items you can't access is pathetic. Clearly they thought everyone would sell on the AH, but in reality you see items priced way beyond what a normal gamer will ever be able to afford (in gold) on the normal ingame AH. My mate puts a lot of hours into this game as he really enjoys it, and has the mind set to constantly try defeating near impossible tasks, and as he has sold a few high priced items, can afford the repair bills. Again, I can't, so I'm knackered from every angle.

Basically I have a game I can play to act 1 of inferno on all characters, then have to give up as I will never be able to complete it.

[zappaDPJ]

Basically I have a game I can play to act 1 of inferno on all characters, then have to give up as I will never be able to complete it.

The problem is twofold. The difficulty level as you've found out is an exponential curve. It starts at a ridiculously easy pace and maintains an easy pace until Inferno at which point it ramps up to stupid levels. If you think Act II is hard, Act III is in a different league again and so on. They should have flattened the curve so that each Act was a steady progression in difficulty. At least that way players would have had some expectation that steady gearing would lead to steady progression instead of hitting the brick wall.

The other problem is there is simply not enough content and the game has no long term appeal. No doubt they tried to eek it out by making it all but impossible to complete unless you grind for weeks or use the RMAH. For a game that was in development for over 10 years, it defies belief that it was released with so little content and with so many issues. How much of that is down to Blizzard and how much is down to Activision is an unknown but either way, someone really dropped the ball which is a shame because Blizzard had a pretty good reputation in the gaming world until Diablo III came along.

[Technical Ben]

It's a good job that's not what we were talking about then Blizzard don't charge you anything, they get a cut of whatever you sell on the RMAH. ...

Huh? How is that different. If Blizzard do or do not (they do, as they program the RNG of the stats) make the notepad change in the code, or the user does, it's still charging for a single byte of data on the pc.

It's like charging for an extra naught in naughts and crosses. You can draw your own for free! If someone devises a DRM version of naughts and crosses where the crosses are kept server side, I'd still not pay to have a cross + 200 damage. 

As said, if it's a paid for service (based on usage or time) then I'm happy with it. But Blizzard are charging for the game as well.

I just cannot understand why someone would pay £200 or so for a sword that does +300 damage or whatever, it's a stat noted in a game. Most people use to use Game Genies for this, or just edit an ini/stat file.
If it's charging for actual content, like pets in WOW, or whatever that's ok. It's still open for arguments on how much it's worth, but it has some worth.

[Niall]

It's completely different. It's an in game item that is a part of the game. Users decide whether or not to sell it. Blizzard have no say in your decision where to sell it. You can sell it on the gold auction house or the real money auction house. It makes no difference to the mechanic of the game.

Common sense dictates that only an idiot would pay for something that when used helps complete a game to never be played again. That being said, if someone enjoys a game, has disposable income, who are we to say what they can spend their money on? It's just like buying a football. Eventually it'll be useless, but you still buy it because you enjoy playing football.

[Technical Ben]

Yep. I'd still not pay someone £20 for changing a value in notepad (30 seconds work) from "dmg 50" to "dmg 500". I don't care if it's a player or Blizzard. Oh, the fact it's a dice roll for drops, as suppose to typing it on a keyboard, again I'd not pay for it.

If the user created a skin, 3d mesh and/or other stuff? Yep, I'd pay for that. A change of stats? Nope.

It's the equivalent of trying to sell naughts in a game of naughts and crosses. The naughts are free. Only here Blizzard have made extremely complicated looking naughts.

[Niall]

It's the equivalent of trying to sell naughts in a game of naughts and crosses. The naughts are free. Only here Blizzard have made extremely complicated looking naughts.

Again, no it's not. The items are already in game. Blizzard are not selling ANYTHING. They are items in a game already. Your analogy is comparable to having characters in a game with no weapons, and having to buy the weapons or you can't play.

In Diablo3 they do NOTHING like that at all. The game is the game. Everything you need is already contained within. Items drop as a random game drop, and the stats are totally random. No one charges you anything to get the items at all, and in every other respect it's exactly the same as every other RPG, with the exception of how many items you can carry and how many team mates you have.

You sound like you're quoting the escapist video review, mixed in with comments from people that haven't played the game.