Draytek 2750n

Steve · Jul 20, 2012, 09:33:07

I agree I think that you've spent enough time with that router.
I know Openreach fit two different manufacturers equipment at the FTTC cabinet and I've read vary the OR modem supplied in this case. Just wondering whether this could be a cause of incompatibility in some circumstances.

MisterW · Jul 20, 2012, 09:42:32

Sorry to hijack you thread RogerG.
@Ardua,

QuoteHave a look at the PDF that I sent you in an earlier e-mail - VDSL Security Settings

Was that recently ? as I don't seem to have any email.

QuoteI am reluctant to play around with my settings to prove a point as my modem has remained in synch since BT last did some PEW on my exchange some weeks ago.

I totally understand, as an engineer I too abide by the principle 'if it works ...'
If you get bored and need some light bedtime reading have a look at this http://home.scarlet.be/~pcoleman/upgrades/vdsl2.pdf
BTW I do agree that the 7390 is a better piece of kit. We actually have one in our Dutch office, it's using ADSL2 though. The VPN capabilities are quite good and it maintains a much more reliable connection back to the UK than the previous kit we had there.

Steve · Jul 20, 2012, 11:00:49

All this talk of the 7390 , do I need one? I haven't bought a router for over a year I'm beginning to think I'm missing out. I suppose it is dual band WiFi I could easily persuade myself.

Glenn · Jul 20, 2012, 11:13:40

My 7390 connects with close to 100% higher latency than the OR modem

OR modem

Fritzbox modem

Ardua · Jul 20, 2012, 11:28:46

See Reply 9 for the link to Draytek VDSL security settings.

The FB7390 is a superb piece of kit. That said, it is not perfect. It has issues on the PSTN side with Ghost Calls and intermittent CLID. Up until a fortnight ago, I would have recommended a £180 purchase from Mom 'ilc. The FB is a dual-band router with Guest Access, WPS etc.

Steve · Jul 20, 2012, 11:40:49

Quote from: Glenn on Jul 20, 2012, 11:13:40
My 7390 connects with close to 100% higher latency than the OR modem

But is that the cause? Did you not have a relatively high latency previously and I suppose it may not be just coincidence.

MisterW · Jul 20, 2012, 11:47:39

QuoteSee Reply 9 for the link to Draytek VDSL security settings.

That's a link to the 2850, that's ADSL/VDSL capable, and against the VCI/VPI settings it does say ADSL only. The 2750 manual doesn't have those settings.

Ardua · Jul 20, 2012, 12:04:45

Quote from: MisterW on Jul 20, 2012, 11:47:39
That's a link to the 2850, that's ADSL/VDSL capable, and against the VCI/VPI settings it does say ADSL only. The 2750 manual doesn't have those settings.

OK. I am afraid this is where my limited amount of knowledge ends. Hope that the router exchange goes smoothly and the new one works.

MisterW · Jul 20, 2012, 12:26:08

I've just been reading the BT SIN for FTTC http://www1.btwebworld.com/sinet/498v3p3a.pdf and I might have a theory as to why the 2750 doesn't work, or sometimes does...
There's this little purler ( in red, so implying it's changed

) on page 9

QuoteIn order to ensure line rate information reported is accurate, PADI DHCP Discover packets will be dropped for an extended period following VDSL line re-train. This blocking period may last up to 25 seconds. This mechanism avoids blank line rate information being reported by the IA.

Now when the PPPoE connection starts, it sends PADI packets and expects a response ( from the ISP ) PADO packet to establish the MAC addresses of the two endpoints. This is timing out on the 2750 and I suspect its then dropping the VDSL and then retrying, but almost certainly once the VDSL is back in synch it will immediately try to setup the PPPoE again and is probably hitting the 25 second timeout. When using the BT OR modem, of course, it sets up the VDSL connection and only the router does the PPPoE so it will just retry until the 25 seconds has elapsed and then it will connect, since the VDSL link is still up.
If I'm right, then potentially this could affect ANY combined VDSL modem/router if it retrains the VDSL link each time it tries to setup the PPPoE connection.

I wonder if there's any CLI commands to tweak some settings on the 2750... ( goes off to find out )

Glenn · Jul 20, 2012, 12:34:40

Quote from: Steve on Jul 20, 2012, 11:40:49

But is that the cause? Did you not have a relatively high latency previously and I suppose it may not be just coincidence.

Steve, that came down after BT fiddled with some cabling, to around 12 - 16ms which is the 1st graph from 9th July, the 2nd is from this week with the Fritzbox connected. I'm leaving it connected to see if when I was messing about with the connection caused the jump.

MisterW · Jul 20, 2012, 12:47:22

Ok, well the CLI manual doesn't seem to have any options for VDSL but then again it was only updated in 2009.

@RogerG,
Did you ever try the latest 1.5.2 Beta firmware on the 2750 ? because looking at the release notes it says

QuoteBeta firmware for VDSL line synch issue if Vigor 2750 is unable to obtain successful synch on a specific BT based line.

Have a look at the release notes in the firmware download from here http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/downloads.html

RogerG · Jul 20, 2012, 12:53:18

Have you seen this forum where 2750N users are experiencing similar issues and appear to be coming up with solutions?
http://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity/Draytek-Vigor-2750n-Connection-Issues/td-p/355021/highlight/true

OMG !! No, and had I seen it I would have picked another router.

RogerG · Jul 20, 2012, 12:56:32

Did you ever try the latest 1.5.2 Beta firmware on the 2750 ? because looking at the release notes it says
Quote

Beta firmware for VDSL line synch issue if Vigor 2750 is unable to obtain successful synch on a specific BT based line.

Have a look at the release notes in the firmware download from here http://www.draytek.co.uk/support/downloads.html

Thanks MisterW, I will download the beta and give it one last try. After that I'm inclined to give up. I allocated a day to getting this up & running and I'm starting to think I'm wasting my time.

MisterW · Jul 20, 2012, 13:39:34

It's probably worth just the last try, because I suspect that the 2750 isn't faulty and so any replacement is likely to exhibit the same problem ( unless of course you replace it with a 7390 )

Steve · Jul 20, 2012, 13:56:38

Quote from: Glenn on Jul 20, 2012, 12:34:40
Steve, that came down after BT fiddled with some cabling, to around 12 - 16ms which is the 1st graph from 9th July, the 2nd is from this week with the Fritzbox connected. I'm leaving it connected to see if when I was messing about with the connection caused the jump.

It does make me think twice before moving away from an OR approved modem (perhaps a RacingBeat back box would be wiser choice for my pennies.)

RogerG · Jul 20, 2012, 14:31:00

It's probably worth just the last try, because I suspect that the 2750 isn't faulty and so any replacement is likely to exhibit the same problem ( unless of course you replace it with a 7390 )

Either the Fritz or give up altogether and add a WAP to the lousy OR Huawei. I would go straight for the Fritz! but I don't think my supplier (Broadbandbuyer) carries them, so I would have to get the cash back from them before buying the Fritz!. If I have to hit the credit card, then it's definitely a WAP to the Huawei, because I don't want to buy another box that might not work with BT's equipment in my area.

Lance · Jul 20, 2012, 15:32:09

Why not keep it simple and just use the OR supplied modem with something like the Billion 7800n? Not always ideal having two boxes but at least it should work

RogerG · Jul 20, 2012, 15:42:22

Why not keep it simple and just use the OR supplied modem with something like the Billion 7800n? Not always ideal having two boxes but at least it should work

One last try with the beta software and that's exactly what I'm going to do Lance. I hate giving up, but I'm doing an OU language degree and this is eating up my study time.

MisterW · Jul 20, 2012, 17:32:01

QuoteNot always ideal having two boxes but at least it should work

TBH that's one of the main things putting me off getting FTTC. I already have enough boxes without adding another one! If and when the cost of units like the 7390 and 2750 come down to a reasonable level then I might review things...

jm_paulin · Jul 23, 2012, 11:01:18

Hey,

I was using a 2820 connected to the WLAN port, but I think 980/20 was too much for it. I saw some weird NAT issues and ended up having to reboot the router 2-3 times a week. (Yes, I know, NAT is evil). so...

I just got myself a 2850. I did that in 2 steps:
- First kept the BT Model and use the WLAN port on the 2850. kind of worked. I got the speed but I had to reboot the 2850.
- Now thinking of using the 2850 instead of the BT Model. I did a simple test and that worked just fine. I got the same speed as using the WLAN. I like the fact I got the stats for the line (Sync, Db...) . However, I did not test for long so not sure about stability. I got some rewiring to do (mainly get a 30 ft RJ11 extension lead to go from the master socket to where the rooter will sit), then I will update here...

I just followed Mikey's guide but put a priority of 3 in the VLAN tag insertion (not even sure what that is), but I thought it should be the same as the 2750 guide...

RogerG · Jul 23, 2012, 19:43:35

I just got myself a 2850.

Wow - hi spec, more than I need. Just returned the 2750 to BroadBandBuyer - it works just fine for them ! They have agreed to swap it for a 2130. I know, I keep the grubby Huawei but at least I will have a router again !!