IP profile changed again?

[Reya]

After a couple of days of running far more slowly than usual (which I assumed was down to increased online usage in general in the UK thanks to the Olympics) I ran a BT Speedtest today out of curiosity. It showed that the 8MB Home Supermax connection I'm on has been profiled at 2MB - again! This happened back in May, and now it's happened again.

I never switch off my router (the PC, yes; router never - unless there's a thunderstorm in the vicinity, in which case I unplug everything unpluggable!) and as a rule when I'm running speed tests I get on average about a 6.5MB download speed.

This is today's BT result:

Download speed achieved during the test was - 1.83 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0.8 Mbps-2 Mbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :2.37 Mbps(DOWN-STREAM), 0.83 Mbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2 Mbps

To double-check I tried a Think Broadband speedtest and got the same result:



Would switching off the router for a few hours help in any way? Or re-setting it? Or do I need to call Support to get it sorted? 

[armadillo]

In this sort of situation, it is always worth switching off the router for an hour or two. Do it by disconnecting its power supply, and preferably not in the evening. Powering off should not be seen by the exchange as a problem but it is a good idea not to keep doing it repeatedly in any case.

Also post your router stats (from your router's login page) to show noise margin, attenuation etc.

If it does not solve the problem, download router stats lite if you do not already have it.
http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm

You can then see if your noise margin is fluctuating with any sudden drops and diagnosis can then follow. There may be an intermittent source of local noise.

Do those things and someone technical will be along soon to help. Contacting support today is pointless anyway.

[Steve]

I think we do need to see the router stats , your sync may well have recovered from whatever caused the profile dump and the IP profile is stuck or lagging behind. If you are repeatedly resyncing then routerstats will show the margin changes although if your connection is stable routerstats may well not be helpful.

[Reya]

Hrm. OK, I've logged into my router (Netgear DG834G) but I'm not exactly sure where to find my router stats. Any suggestions? There's a lot of menu options in there. Is it the bit under Maintenance > Status?

[armadillo]

Hrm. OK, I've logged into my router (Netgear DG834G) but I'm not exactly sure where to find my router stats. Any suggestions? There's a lot of menu options in there. Is it the bit under Maintenance > Status?

Maintenance>Router Status and click the Show Statistics button

[Reya]

Maintenance>Router Status and click the Show Statistics button

*cough* OK, here it is. Hope it translates well onto the forum...

System Up Time 249:20:21
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoE 10765147 16760562 0 1444 2649 249:19:53
LAN 10M/100M 17135960 11398243 0 3040 1910 249:20:17
WLAN 11M/54M 243209 137228 0 257 20 249:20:07

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 2368 kbps 832 kbps
Line Attenuation 31 db 9.5 db
Noise Margin 17 db 9 db

[nowster]

More than 10 resyncs in an hour triggers the DSLAM to increase the SNR margin and lower the IP Profile, IIRC.

[Steve]

I think you need to check your side of the master socket first, try the test socket with a new filter and different router if possible and check the stats immediately on connection.

[Reya]

More than 10 resyncs in an hour triggers the DSLAM to increase the SNR margin and lower the IP Profile, IIRC.

Would resyncs be noticable? Because for the longest time I've been experiencing 'hangs' in my connection of up to 20 seconds, sometimes every few minutes. And, by 'the longest time', I mean this has been going on for years (even way back with my last ISP when I was using a conventional broadband modem instead of a router) but it's got a lot worse over the past few months.

I think you need to check your side of the master socket first, try the test socket with a new filter and different router if possible and check the stats immediately on connection.

I knew you were going to say that I don't have a spare filter or router (and don't know anyone who has, I'm afraid) but I do have a screwdriver, so I'll try the master socket.

[Reya]

OK, test socket tried out, and not only has the noise margin halved, but the speed is back to what it should be. Which... I don't understand. Don't tell me the problem is all down to internal wiring... 

Original results:

System Up Time 250:01:46
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoE 10772941 16769994 0 1442 2648 250:01:18
LAN 10M/100M 17158620 11418459 0 3044 1909 250:01:42
WLAN 11M/54M 243209 137228 0 257 20 250:01:32

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 2368 kbps 832 kbps
Line Attenuation 31 db 9.5 db
Noise Margin 17 db 9 db

Test socket results:

System Up Time 250:13:51
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoE 10775706 16773424 0 1441 2648 250:13:23
LAN 10M/100M 17165999 11424988 0 3046 1908 250:13:47
WLAN 11M/54M 243209 137228 0 256 20 250:13:37

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 832 kbps
Line Attenuation 32 db 9.5 db
Noise Margin 8 db 15 db

Edited to add: I just repeated the BT Speed Test while connected to the test socket and it's still giving the 1.8MB result:

Download speed achieved during the test was - 1.82 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0.8 Mbps-2 Mbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :8.13 Mbps(DOWN-STREAM), 0.83 Mbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2 Mbps

[Steve]

As your probably aware the test socket isolates your internal wiring and it's attached devices, the router stats suggest that noise is being induced via your internal wiring. The IP profile was correct for your previous sync of just over 2MB, it should now rise if your connection  remains stable at 8128 and your throughput should then rise.

[armadillo]

If you lose sync, the router will try to reconnect at the highest sync it can manage without going below the target noise margin. If you resync repeatedly, the exchange increases your target noise margin until this forces a low enough sync to be stable. Fortunately, your latest connection to the test socket shows that your target noise margin is not higher than 8dB and is probably 6dB. So the exchange allows you to connect at 8128, provided your noise margin remains above this. And the test socket connection is good enough to allow this to occur.

Your connection to the test socket does indeed show that there is very a likely a fault in your internal wiring or a faulty phone.


If there is an intermittent problem with noise after you have achieved sync, noise margin may suddenly fall and the router then loses sync.

Things that might cause loss of sync include:

Intermittent noise caused by some household appliance switching on (e.g. heating pumps, fridge motors, microwaves).

Faulty phones causing disconnection when you make or receive a phone call.

Router Stats lite can help to establish if there is an obvious connection between loss of sync, noise margin and identifiable events such as those.

Your resyncs would be noticeable as brief losses of internet connectivity which you describe as your frequent 20 second gaps. Router Stats Lite would show those.

The BT Speed test is slow because speed is limited by your profile and the profile only increases, in steps, after your router has maintained a stable connection for long enough. It takes several days for this to happen and Support cannot kick that process.

Unless you want to stay connected to the test socket for ever, you will first need to establish what in your wiring, connected equipment or household appliances is causing the problem.

One common problem is connecting the router to the BT socket via a flat cable extension. If that is what you are doing, it is the first thing to try replacing.

[Reya]

As your probably aware the test socket isolates your internal wiring and it's attached devices, the router stats suggest that noise is being induced via your internal wiring. The IP profile was correct for your previous sync of just over 2MB, it should now rise if your connection  remains stable at 8128 and your throughput should then rise.

So, basically leave it plugged into the test socket so the connection (hopefully!) remains stable, and maybe contact my landlord about the wiring? I've no idea what could be done about it. I live in an old house, but it was completely gutted about 15 years ago and re-wired from top to bottom. I don't have anything else connected to the socket. No satellite boxes or anything. I don't even have a TV!

Your connection to the test socket does indeed show that there is very a likely a fault in your internal wiring or a faulty phone.

Hrm. The phone isn't even a year old yet, but it is a DECT model. Would that make any difference?

One common problem is connecting the router to the BT socket via a flat cable extension. If that is what you are doing, it is the first thing to try replacing.

Aha! That could be it. My phone socket is pretty far away from the PC, and I do use a flat cable extension. Any suggestions as to what I shoud replace it with? It needs to be about 10-15 feet long.

Aaaand just as I post this I need to unplug the darn thing anyway, as a huge thunderstorm is blowing in! Ack!

[armadillo]

A DECT phone could certainly cause a problem for a wireless router.

But the most common cause of problems is using a long cable of the wrong type to connect the router to the BT socket. The first thing to confirm is how your router is usually plugged into the BT socket - what kind of cable and how long is it?

And presumably the phone's base unit is normally plugged into the same phone socket as the router or into an extension socket.

The wiring being referred to is the wiring of your router, phones and extensions, not the mains electric wiring.

I hope the thunderstorm does not last too long.

[Steve]

Check for bell wire as well , the only wires you need attached to the master faceplate are at pins 2 and 5 (that's if there is any extension wiring.)

[armadillo]

Aha! That could be it. My phone socket is pretty far away from the PC, and I do use a flat cable extension. Any suggestions as to what I shoud replace it with? It needs to be about 10-15 feet long.

Aha! My last post crossed with your edit! That 10-15 ft flat cable is almost certainly the cause of the problem.

Can you permanently have the router near to the BT socket with a short cable (as it presumably is right now)? If so, you can then connect the router to the PC with a 10-15 ft LAN cable. Long LAN cables are OK. Long flat extension cables are not OK.

[Steve]

I agree the long phone cable with no twisted pairs or shielding just acts an aerial and permits interference to effect the broadband signal.

[nowster]

Put the filter at the master socket. Use existing flat extension cable for phone. Get a long twisted pair "broadband" cable for the ADSL side. Separate the DECT base station at least 1 metre from the ADSL router to minimise RFI pickup by router.

[Reya]

Aiya, that was a big storm, and even though I've not heard any thunder for about 20 minutes it's still hanging around, according to the storm tracker I'm watching. Anyway...

Aha! My last post crossed with your edit! That 10-15 ft flat cable is almost certainly the cause of the problem.

Can you permanently have the router near to the BT socket with a short cable (as it presumably is right now)? If so, you can then connect the router to the PC with a 10-15 ft LAN cable. Long LAN cables are OK. Long flat extension cables are not OK.

Um, actually, the router sits on top of the PC tower. The flat cable runs from the filter all the way up the stairs and into the router. I'm guessing I should switch that around, then?  To be honest, when I bought the router I only had that long flat cable, so it was the only connection option I had or was aware of. I was also told by my local PC store that it would be perfectly sufficient. *sigh*

Check for bell wire as well , the only wires you need attached to the master faceplate are at pins 2 and 5 (that's if there is any extension wiring.)

I could barely see any wiring inside the socket. Partly because the socket's practically on the floor, and partly because most of the wiring was hidden by the top of the faceplate (I could only remove the lower half). I'm not sure what the bell wire or pins 2 or 5 even look like (or if I could access them, since it's in such an awkward place).

Put the filter at the master socket. Use existing flat extension cable for phone. Get a long twisted pair "broadband" cable for the ADSL side. Separate the DECT base station at least 1 metre from the ADSL router to minimise RFI pickup by router.

I won't be able to buy anything for a couple of weeks, but when I can I'll buy a shorter flat cable (15ft is too long to have bundled in a small space downstairs) for the phone (current cable is ridiculously short - barely 1 metre) plus a long LAN cable to go from the router to the PC, as armadillo suggested (which I assume would serve the same purpose as a 'twisted pair broadband cable'? Sorry; I'm kind of a dunce when it comes to hardware!)

Thanks for all your help. Looks like this long flat cable's been the cause of all my flippin' problems since day one!

[armadillo]

I could barely see any wiring inside the socket. Partly because the socket's practically on the floor, and partly because most of the wiring was hidden by the top of the faceplate (I could only remove the lower half). I'm not sure what the bell wire or pins 2 or 5 even look like (or if I could access them, since it's in such an awkward place).


I won't be able to buy anything for a couple of weeks, but when I can I'll buy a shorter flat cable (15ft is too long to have bundled in a small space downstairs) for the phone (current cable is ridiculously short - barely 1 metre) plus a long LAN cable to go from the router to the PC, as armadillo suggested (which I assume would serve the same purpose as a 'twisted pair broadband cable'? Sorry; I'm kind of a dunce when it comes to hardware!)

Thanks for all your help. Looks like this long flat cable's been the cause of all my flippin' problems since day one!

I would leave the inside of the socket alone since the new cable will solve your problem. (Know any good recipes for cooking a hat?).

The long LAN cable is the more foolproof solution. What nowster says will also work. Keep the DECT away from the router anyway.

You should connect your router to the BT socket with a short screened twisted pair CAT5e modem cable like one of these 0.5m adslnation ones

If the BT faceplate has a separate modem socket on the front for that connector, use it. Otherwise it goes into the modem socket of the filter and the filter goes into the BT socket.

The LAN cable is one of these if 10m is long enough

If you need a 15m LAN cable, then one from Maplins

To implement nowster's solution, you would need a long cat5e screened router cable instead.

I would go with the short screened cat5e router cable and the long cat5e LAN cable.

My own setup uses that very same 0.5m screened router cable from adslnation and a 30m LAN cable (might be 20m, can't remember) which goes up from the socket, through my loft space and back down to the PC.

You can find other lengths of those various cables at adslnation and maplins.

I would use adslnation for the router cable though.

(When you said 10-15 ft, I assumed you meant 10-15m as 10 ft would be remarkably short for stairs).

[nowster]

You should connect your router to the BT socket with a short screened twisted pair CAT5e modem cable like one of these 0.5m adslnation ones

If they've got RJ11s on each end (which they should) they're not true CAT5 patch leads. They'll be a single twisted pair only.

Incidentally, an RJ45 will fit in the ADSL port of the BT service specific faceplate, but it won't usually fit in the modem end.

[nowster]

Thanks for all your help. Looks like this long flat cable's been the cause of all my flippin' problems since day one!

The other one that catches people out is when they've wired up extensions using burglar alarm cable instead of phone cable.