Ping unstable/Packetloss

[picto]

Hi everyone

I joined idnet last month because of a problem (I thought I had) with my previous ISP...turns out I still have the problem.
So I really hope someone here can help me because I've had this problem for a while now and can't think of anything else I can try.

Basically when playing unreal tournament 2004 my ping can fluctuate from around 30 to half this or it will go to 0/999 for a split second
and change back but it does this nearly every second I'm playing and it's causing a delay in shots and sometimes shots from other players aren't visible.
While I'm spectating my ping won't change at all, so it's only when I'm moving around etc.
In call of duty 4 I'm also getting kicked for "losing key packets".

Looking at speedtest and pingtest I always get good results. Correct speeds, 0% packetloss and 1ms jitter.

When I ping servers that I play on, the results are always good with no packetless.
It must be something to do with the connection not being able to handle so much information being sent/received from the game.

I primarily use Windows 7 but did a clean install of XP a few weeks ago and getting the same results.
I've also tried another computer, a new router, new NIC, cables, the test socket.

Nothing helps.

Here are my router stats:

Linksys WAG160N

DSL VPI/VCI:         0/38
DSL Status:          ShowtimeRetrain Reason:   8000
DSL Mode:            ADSL2+
DSL Channel:         FAST
DSL Upstream Rate:   1171 Kbps
DSL Downstream Rate: 13327 Kbps

                      Down         up   
DSL Noise Margin:     5.4 dB       5.8 dB
DSL Attenuation:     30.5 dB      15.7 dB
DSL Transmit Power:   0.0 dBm     12.8 dBm

And speedguide analyzer:

« SpeedGuide.net TCP Analyzer Results »
Tested on: 2012.09.12 13:55
IP address: 93.89.xxx.xx
Client OS/browser: Windows 7 (Internet Explorer 8.0)

TCP options string: 0204058c0103030201010402
MSS: 1420
MTU: 1460
TCP Window: 66740 (multiple of MSS)
RWIN Scaling: 2 bits (2^2=4)
Unscaled RWIN : 16685
Recommended RWINs: 65320, 130640, 261280, 522560, 1045120
BDP limit (200ms): 2670kbps (334KBytes/s)
BDP limit (500ms): 1068kbps (133KBytes/s)
MTU Discovery: ON
TTL: 115
Timestamps: OFF
SACKs: ON
IP ToS: 00000000 (0)


Could the problem be related to my MTU?
I don't know why, but whatever I do, I cannot set the MTU above 1460.
In the router settings, it's set to 1500. Using DrTCP and checking registry - my NIC is set to 1500 and still my result is always 1460 on speedguide.
Is MTU limited by idnet?

Thanks in advance

[Steve]

I'm sorry I don't know the answer but as far as I'm aware IDNet do not limit the MTU.

[Glenn]

 

Do you see any spikes if you do a prolonged ping test to the game server IP?

ping -t

[picto]

Thanks

Just ran a few tests and all were perfectly fine

    Packets: Sent = 118, Received = 118, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 24ms, Maximum = 26ms, Average = 24ms

[Glenn]

What's the server address?

[picto]

The one I just tested is 85.17.208.105

[Steve]

   - I think this is Windows, try >

Code Select Expand

ping -f -l 1472 www.broadbandreports.com if that comes back unfragmented your mtu is 1500

[Glenn]

The one I just tested is 85.17.208.105

I got the same result as yourself after pinging the ip for 5 mins.

[Steve]

I'm using OS X with FTTC, PPPOE has a max MTU of 1492, below is a ping test using 1464 (28 overhead) this shows no packet loss. Speedguide.net shows an MTU for me of 1460 which I think it always has and is erroneous from the test below.

steve$ ping -c 2 -D -s 1464 www.broadbandreports.com
PING broadbandreports.com (209.123.109.175): 1464 data bytes
1472 bytes from 209.123.109.175: icmp_seq=0 ttl=50 time=92.699 ms
1472 bytes from 209.123.109.175: icmp_seq=1 ttl=50 time=92.860 ms

--- broadbandreports.com ping statistics ---
2 packets transmitted, 2 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 92.699/92.779/92.860/0.080 ms

[picto]

Highest I can go to is 1464. I have previously had it responding at 1472 though.

I asked my mate to check speedguide analyzer and it says his MTU is 1500. (He's also running win7)
I get the same speedguide result on XP

[Steve]

If I'm correct that gives you an MTU of 1492 doesn't it? So why does speed guide.net report 1460 , just wish I new the answer to that.

[picto]

If I'm correct that gives you an MTU of 1492 doesn't it? So why does speed guide.net report 1460 , just wish I new the answer to that.

You and me both 

[pctech]

Set MTU to 1458 when using PPPoA encapsulation (Only PPPoE supports 1500)

[picto]

Set it to 1458 and hasn't had any effect in game. I've definitely had "ping -f -l 1472..." work before but never seen speedguide above 1460 that I can remember.

If MTU isn't the problem anyway, what else could I possibly try?
I can't remember when this problem developed, it hasn't always been there.

[Lance]

Have you tried a different router. Many years ago I had a linksys cause a similar problem just before it died.

[picto]

Have you tried a different router. Many years ago I had a linksys cause a similar problem just before it died.

Yeah, I bought a new one, tested it and returned a few days later as it made no difference.

When UKonline got taken over by Sky they came and installed all their cr*p and I'm sure since then the problem came about.
But using the test socket would surely bypass any of the stuff they added so I don't know.

With MTU at 1458 i've lost connection in game 4 times in about 5 mins. Web pages still load though.

[Lance]

How ate you connecting to the router? If wireless try a cabled connection.

[picto]

I always use a wired connection.
I have tried absolutely everything I can think of hardware wise.

Weird thing is, I created a dedicated server and connected to it and still had the ping jumping to 0/999.
Can't be the computer as I tried on my laptop as well.

[Ray]

 

[Glenn]

Give support a call, they maybe able to see where the problem is happening, it has been known in the past for the route to be changed to bypass the problem.

[pctech]

If you were using UKOnline and the problem was apparent there do you know whether you were using it via BT or did Easynet (UKOnline was a brand of Easynet which Sky acquired) unbundle your exchange?

[picto]

Yeah I'll give support a call when I can.

Did you mean wasn't* apparent?
I honestly have no idea if they did or not 
What does it mean if they did or didn't?

[pctech]

Did you have a similar problem with Sky?

The reason it is significant is that if your traffic is being transported to Sky via the BT network this is shared amongst all the ISPs, if Sky unbundled your exchange the equipment and links back to the rest of the network are used only by Sky customers so the chance of congestion is lessened.

The point being is that there maybe an issue with congestion on the BT kit at the exchange.

[picto]

Think I had the problem with Sky as I left them within a few weeks due to the connection being mostly bad.

Ok, so if I contact idnet will they be able to see the route of my traffic and get it sorted?
While with plustnet I contacted them about my connection feeling better after midnight and asking them to check which package I was on because they're pro add-on says there's no traffic shaping.
They replied saying everything was fine.
So if my traffic goes through Sky's equipment could this be a reason for this happening?

[Steve]

You won't be using any Sky equipment now, I think support are going to need some evidence to aid your case. It appears that isolated ping tests show no issues which for me complicates the issue as I would expect to see some deterioration in latency at peak times if exchange congestion is an issue.

Perhaps some of the gamers will know whether it's possible to graphically plot latency whilst a game is in progress. 


The Thinkbroadband Quality / Ping Monitor is a very useful tool and would recommend it to you if you've not used it before now.

[picto]

Yeah ping tests always return good results and no packetloss and as I said before,
spectating someone else online my ping is completely stable and no packetloss until I start moving around.

I have tried it before but that was a while ago so I'll download it again.

[picto]

Spoken to IDNet and they've basically said there's nothing they can do.

I setup a ping test on thinkbroadband and I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be getting results like this.

[pctech]

Did you talk to the day staff? No point in discussing this with the Out Of Hours team

[picto]

Yeah spoke to Brian in the morning. He said there's no tests they can do for this problem.
Told me to contact the game server admins but noone else gets this problem on the servers
and they're run by different companies in various countries.

[pctech]

Suspect your exchange is congested, looks like you need to look at LLU

If you have O2 in your area IDNet might be able to move you over to their Telefonica Wholesale connection

[picto]

mm sam knows says the exchange has LLU but I can't get o2/be so don't know who supplies that

[picto]

Out of the ones I checked AOL and Sky/Easynet LLU is enabled in my area. So...?

Would fibre optic still have the congestion issues?

I thought the exchange got congested if there were a lot of people connected via the same ISP.
I doubt hardly anyone in this area is with IDNet. Guess I was wrong anyway.

[Steve]

Your local BT exchange (LLU excluded) runs several virtual paths to the BT backbone, they transmit all the broadband data from the surrounding area. Thus they are not ISP specific and not all VPs on any given exchange can be congested. Exchange congestion generally occurs in the evening and is usually absent where present from the early hours until dawn. Support usually know from BT whether a particle exchange is reaching full capacity or not.

Looking at your TBBQM your connection is showing very heavy usage between 10pm  and 0200am.

[picto]

Ok I've emailed IDNet again showing this graph. Don't know if they can do anything but I'll find out in the morning.

Could these spikes be caused by my own usage? Like If I'm playing a game online or streaming video.

If so I need to see results from when I haven't been using much bandwidth in the evening. Then I'll know if its the
exchange or myself.

[Steve]

I don't believe your graph is showing classical signs of exchange congestion, you tend to see the minimum latency rise as well during the peak hours - your stays fairly low through out.

[Technical Ben]

What spec computer do you have? As it's only uploads, sounds like it is a problem "your end"? Could be conflicting drivers to a duff network card? Things like windows downloading updates during times you need the connection are also a problem. 

[picto]

Well I would assume it's something to do with computer but I tested it on my laptop as well and have the exact same problem.
I even bought the KillerNIC to see if that fixed it, but it didn't.

[Lance]

Have you tried simply changing to a new cable on different ports on the router?

[Technical Ben]

Sorry you had to try an expensive network card. I'd only ever recommend a normal one, AFAIK there is nothing special about killernic.

[picto]

Yeah, as I said, I've tried brand new cables, new router, filters etc etc. All connected to test socket and normal one.

I did return the killernic, not wasting £60 on something that does nothing.

[Technical Ben]

Oh, and as you've already listed the entire problem solvers list, I guess the port forwarding has also already been done.

Hmmm. Stumped on this one. Does the game work during quite periods? Or only lag in the evenings?

[picto]

Yep port forwarding done as well.

Connection is usually always the same no matter what time it is.

I'll take my laptop to my bros and see if the problems still there.