Strange gaming issue.

Desaan · Sep 28, 2012, 21:21:13

Recently I picked up Pro Evolution Soccer 13 on the PC and was quickly kicked in the nuts with this error message:

Now, I've had zero issues with Idnet in recent years in regards to gaming performance the only problem I can recall is a routing issue with World of Warcraft a few years ago and normally I would think a problem like this might be on my side but I know my system is pretty much perfect in terms of set up, I've had no issues in terms of connectivity with any game for 5-6 years.

I tried absolutely everything with this, from port forwarding to disabling firewalls and even changing routers. Nothing would work, so on a hunch I decided to try my VPN. Selected Amsterdam, connected and hey presto - the previous restriction is lifted. So what gives? Have Idnet recently starting shaping or blocking ports? How can something go from non functional to functional via a VPN? It doesn't make any sense to me.

For reference here is Konami's network troubleshooting FAQ for PC

Common Internet Connection Issues:

The most common issue being faced is due to incorrect port forwarding. Please make sure that any firewalls you might have are turned off and that the following ports are open in your router:

PC:

TCP: 80, 44, 4000-4200
UDP: Auto mode: 3658, 5730-5739
Manual mode: It is possible to set any UDP port number from the "settings.exe" in the Konami Start menu folder.

Although I got functionality I also got the reverse side of using VPN, a big increase in latency, not ideal for playing online.

Any thoughts on this bizarre issue?

Glenn · Sep 28, 2012, 21:30:24

This thread may be of some use http://forums.pesfan.com/showthread.php?242999-HELP!!!!!!-Is-there-Portforwarding-guide-for-Pes2012

Has your router firmware been upgraded recently, it seems to cause the issue for those in the thread?

Desaan · Sep 28, 2012, 21:41:18

Nope, router firmware is fairly dated and there have been no updates or anything like that. I actually visited that thread as well on my travels, I think that guy was on the PS3 and solved his issue by changing his default port number in the PS3 network set-up, something which I have tried tenfold on the PC to no avail. He was refering to the update the game received and not to his router/modem software.

Technical Ben · Sep 28, 2012, 21:52:16

AFAIK this does happen from time to time over games and ISPs in general. For example Xbox live was nocked off one ISP recently (Virgin?). It might have to do with routing (I think I remember someones WOW game going to the an american routing server then back to the EU server instead of just straight to the EU).

So it's might be down to some routing of the connection. That's not a thing customers have control over. I don't think IDNet do either, but they can make a request to those involved.

Have you tried doing a route trace for where the connection goes astray? http://www.mediacollege.com/internet/troubleshooter/traceroute.html We might be able to see who is sending it in the wrong direction.

A VPN will take a different route to get to a destination, so it may be an indication as to what is going wrong. However, it also changes how your PC talks to the router (AFAIK, though I'm not certain), so it may be sidestepping the problem that way if the problem is with the router/s.

Or it may possibly be the router, as some just fail to pass the information correctly. Don't go out and buy a new one though, much better things to check first. (No idea if it is so in your case, the VPN may hide/change the type of traffic sent to the router, or it may not, I'm not that technically minded. )

Have you tried the somewhat risky approach of turning all security settings off on the router to see if that fixes it? Then turn them back on, one by one, to see which (if any) are blocking the game traffic.
Hmm, you tried those.

Hope that helps a bit though.

[edit]
I'll add this one note though, no offense to anyone intended, but most games have the worse net code ever. Well, it's the hardest to make granted, it needs realtime 2 way communication in perfect sync with either zero error or error correction, but still it breaks all the time!

Desaan · Sep 28, 2012, 22:27:06

Hey Ben! Don't get me started on terrrible net code!

As far as I know and have been able to find out there is a master server for dealing with matchmaking/logins stuff like that and all the actual matches played in the game are done via P2P. Just for testing sake the tracert to the Konami master server without the VPN is as follows:

Tracing route to 210.148.52.143 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.2.1
2 22 ms 20 ms 21 ms telehouse-gw3-lo1.idnet.net [212.69.63.47]
3 21 ms 23 ms 23 ms telehouse-gw6-gi4-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.246]
4 26 ms 22 ms 22 ms v225.core1.lon1.he.net [216.66.86.45]
5 90 ms 96 ms 102 ms 10gigabitethernet7-4.core1.nyc4.he.net [72.52.92.241]
6 93 ms 91 ms 133 ms 198.32.118.63
7 91 ms 91 ms 91 ms nyc002bb11.IIJ.Net [206.132.169.186]
8 170 ms 170 ms 168 ms sjc002bb01.IIJ.Net [206.132.169.206]
9 169 ms 168 ms 169 ms sjc002bf01.IIJ.Net [206.132.169.245]
10 320 ms 302 ms 272 ms tky008bf01.IIJ.Net [216.98.96.61]
11 302 ms 324 ms 322 ms tky008bb11.IIJ.Net [58.138.80.238]
12 300 ms 269 ms 327 ms tky008ipgw11.IIJ.Net [58.138.104.214]
13 324 ms 300 ms 324 ms tky013ip71.IIJ.Net [58.138.99.14]
14 291 ms 272 ms 267 ms 210.130.151.206
15 296 ms 321 ms 319 ms 202.221.147.150
16 301 ms 301 ms 302 ms 210.148.52.143

Trace complete.

With VPN via Amsterdam:

Tracing route to 210.148.52.143 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 28 ms 28 ms * 192.168.35.166
2 28 ms 28 ms 31 ms 192.168.32.1
3 29 ms 29 ms 31 ms vl307.gw1.ams.giganews.com [216.196.108.242]
4 38 ms 33 ms 32 ms 94.31.33.33
5 52 ms 56 ms 52 ms ge-1-1-0.mpr2.ams5.nl.above.net [64.125.26.90]
6 51 ms 46 ms 41 ms xe-4-0-0.mpr1.lhr2.uk.above.net [64.125.24.73]
7 110 ms 106 ms 107 ms so-0-1-0.mpr1.dca2.us.above.net [64.125.27.57]
8 107 ms 106 ms 106 ms xe-0-3-0.cr1.dca2.us.above.net [64.125.29.17]
9 107 ms 107 ms 107 ms xe-0-0-1.er1.iad10.us.above.net [64.125.31.206]
10 109 ms 108 ms 106 ms abn001bb00.iij.net [206.223.115.23]
11 181 ms 181 ms 186 ms sjc002bb01.IIJ.Net [206.132.169.142]
12 187 ms 177 ms 177 ms sjc002bf02.IIJ.Net [206.132.169.249]
13 286 ms 265 ms 265 ms tky001bf00.IIJ.Net [206.132.169.106]
14 286 ms 303 ms 282 ms tky008bb10.IIJ.Net [58.138.80.50]
15 305 ms 284 ms * tky008ipgw11.IIJ.Net [58.138.104.214]
16 336 ms 300 ms 328 ms tky013ip71.IIJ.Net [58.138.99.14]
17 302 ms 274 ms 282 ms 210.130.151.206
18 300 ms 302 ms 278 ms 202.221.147.150
19 283 ms 272 ms 272 ms 210.148.52.143

Trace complete.

It could just be a routing issue I guess, it's kind of hard to narrow down what it could be. It's no big deal, I just don't like problems I can't reslove, the troubleshooter in me won't let it go!

pctech · Sep 28, 2012, 22:33:18

Out of interest does anything improve if you change DNS servers in your router to OpenDNS (http://www.opendns.com)

Desaan · Sep 28, 2012, 22:46:56

Tried switching between Idnet and OpenDNS, no change sadly.

pctech · Sep 28, 2012, 22:50:15

What router are you using?

Desaan · Sep 28, 2012, 23:41:06

I'm currently using a Belkin F6D4630-4

Technical Ben · Sep 29, 2012, 10:52:59

Well, I don't know about net code/networking that much (my bro is currently going to Uni for that! Yey for me getting free help!

). But, the first thing I notice is
1 28 ms 28 ms * 192.168.35.166 on the VPN
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.2.1 On the normal connection

IE, your IP is not showing on the VPN. How does that effect the games connections? Is the IP/DNS getting muddled going to the router, but being forwarded by the VPN to allow the game to work?
Your connection pretends the router does not exist when you use a VPN (as well as the other routing, but I don't know how to check those right now). So when the game cannot see your router, it works. When it sees the router (or the router sees your game) it does not.

I'd guess that's where the problem is. Which option in the game or router do we need to change? How long is a piece of string? (I don't know

)

Steve · Sep 29, 2012, 14:29:06

A temporary DMZ should confirm whether it's the router on not won't it.

Desaan · Sep 29, 2012, 15:52:50

Afternoon guys.

I've already tried to DMZ my PC's IP address, doesn't make any difference. I've kind of run out of things to try now, I'm happy enough to use the VPN for now until I get bored of playing it. Let's just say the games maker (Konami) don't have the best of reputations these days. I'm leaning towards there is some sort of issue with my physical location that they don't like, either a problem in the game software or something server side, buggered if I know!

Technical Ben · Sep 29, 2012, 20:47:33

Games that tend to allow player to player (without centralized servers) or player made servers seem to do a lot better. Why? Because if the user has a problem, and the software is on their PC, they can fix it.
If it's centralized and the user has a problem... well, how likely is it that the games company is going to fix it? You already paid them the cash.

Well, they will fix it... in time... possibly. If the game allows LAn play you may be able to try Hamachi to play a LAN game over the net.
https://secure.logmein.com/products/hamachi/download.aspx