So, what gives?

[Niall]

Between 10.0Mb and 13.0Mb
(Estimated speed: 11.5Mb)

This is what my line supports based on the BT checker site, it also says that when fibre is live I'll get 27mb on my line. As it stands, my line keeps dropping to 6mb. I'm sick to death of asking for a line reset. I've had engineers out in the past and since they did the work to 'repair' the line it's been 15mb-6mb at the drop of a hat. There's no noise on my phone line since they altered whatever the fault on the line was (they replaced parts in the cab and at the exchange apparently), and now my results are consistently what I posted above, on checkers.

Why am I getting 6mb? I have no issues in my house and have 4 filters (1 BT and 3 from ADSL nation, two 'on a rope' ones and one faceplate). The noise varies with each but by minuscule amounts so this shows it's not those. I've ruled out hardware too, and have also upgraded parts since the issues reared their ugly head again.

Can anyone suggest anything other than asking for an engineer to come out? I have no days available to take off until February so it's not an option. If my line has a fault on it, which I believe it has as when it's 12mb+, one bad storm or torrential rain event and I'll have 6mb again, slowly resetting down each 3 days (like clockwork). To me this says that somewhere there is an issue on the line, probably between my house and the cabinet that's about 150 feet away.

As I say, I think it's a BT issue. After 4 engineer visits you'd think the line would be solid, but apparently not. I've left it for several months which believe me, has shown incredible patience on my part, but now I'm sick of it. I should be getting 15mb, but clearly the line has issues as I'm getting 6mb when even the BT checker says I should get 13mb. My line always has had higher speeds than the checker says it should, but now I'd just like to have a line that's better than basic ADSL, especially when I'm paying for more.

[pctech]

What are your router stats Niall?

Could be a noise burst

[Niall]

Yeah it is noise related. Sorry forgot to mention that.

I've mentioned previously in other threads that everything in the room has been replaced and I've reduced any electrical device use across the house too. When BT fixed something a while ago, it was fine for several months, then it went awful so IDnet got an engineer round. This engineer did a test and literally in under 30 seconds confirmed nothing in the house/room was the issue. It turned out that something had burned out in the cab which had to be replaced. Also they confirmed that something in the exchange was knackered too, which they claim was replaced (a board or something). I'm starting to wonder if they just swap knackered hardware around until they get the minimum of complaints and leave it. The line on my sisters road was awful, then they sorted something at the exchange. Literally the same day my connection started playing up again. Coincidence maybe, but I really do wonder.

Routerstats is currently showing a noise margin of 9.3, in fact it just dropped to 9.2 as I typed this (I've just swapped the filter after posting). Without changes at my end, or in the house I've seen a range from 17dB to the lowest of 4.7dB.

Here's an example of the randomness:

Sun 11 Sep 2011  21:15:13,    Noise Margin= 9.3, Sync Speed= 6652, Upstream NM= 10.4
Fri 16 Sep 2011  17:33:26,    Noise Margin= 4.7, Sync Speed= 15180, Upstream NM= 10.1
Mon 30 Jul 2012  21:36:36,    Noise Margin= 12.2, Sync Speed= 11040, Upstream NM= 11.1
Wed 01 Aug 2012  20:17:22,    Noise Margin= 14.3, Sync Speed= 9564, Upstream NM= 6.2
Tue 21 Aug 2012  17:51:09,    Noise Margin= 9.6, Sync Speed= 6652, Upstream NM= 11.6
Sat 29 Sep 2012  21:45:51,    Noise Margin= 9.2, Sync Speed= 6652, Upstream NM= 9.2
Sat 29 Sep 2012  21:46:06,    Noise Margin= 9.2, Sync Speed= 6652, Upstream NM= 9.1
Sat 29 Sep 2012  21:46:21,    Noise Margin= 9.2, Sync Speed= 6652, Upstream NM= 8.8

Note the dates. This is without changing anything at my end. I've only posted when there is a speed/noise change. Also, I only dip in and out of router stats just to log the stats for the day, then close it again.

It's clearly a line fault but how do you get BT to acknowledge that when they have a checker that says the line should support higher?

[pctech]

I expect the BT tester gives a green reading?

Unfortunately that means they will do nothing as its performing within specification.

ADSL is best effort so they will argue the checker is giving the indication under perfect line conditions.

AFAIK the only service where they have to provide the speed is Symmetric DSL and that's quite a bit more expensive than ADSL.

Sit tight and wait for fibre.

[Niall]

Yeah, that's what I've been doing but as I don't have much time lately, downloading a game on steam to play that night is now impossible.

The worry for me is that if they say the line supports 27mb and I'm getting half of their expected speed now, I'll only be getting what I should be now, when I pay more for fibre!

P.S. Remember Carrier command from the 80s on the Amiga, well http://www.carriercommand.com/ I just bought it on Steam for the awfully high price of £31. My fond memories cost me dear

[pctech]

I've been getting about 3.5Mbps since BT fixed a voice fault on my broadband line by cutting away some rotten copper and sealing the joint with resin.

Yesterday I set the router to ADSL and got a steady 4 Meg.

[Niall]

This is what annoys me too. About 2 years ago BT came out to fix my mums phone line which was so noisy it was losing calls. The same was happening to my line a while ago. I'm thinking that they put new cable in from the house to where it reconnects to the older cable that runs to the cab. The line from there on must be knackered, which is why my connection is all over the place.

I just wish I had the money to say, "look, what cable is it and how much would it cost to get an engineer to fit it, and I'll pay?". What use it BT upgrading networks on a network that is falling over as they're moving forward? Why not repair the older cabling first and get broadband to people with non, THEN upgrade? Sure we'll be behind europe, but we already are so why not just do it properly? Thatcher has done the damage, just repair from the ground up for gods sake!

[pctech]

If your line rental is with IDNet ask support to take it up with Openreach.

If they won't ask for your MAC and go to a provider that will (I can think of one with somewhat of a reputation of not taking nonsense from our non monopoly telecoms virtual monopoly)

[Niall]

If your line rental is with IDNet ask support to take it up with Openreach.

If they won't ask for your MAC and go to a provider that will (I can think of one with somewhat of a reputation of not taking nonsense from our non monopoly telecoms virtual monopoly)

I'll just send support yet another request to reset the line, and hope it holds out until fibre comes my way (supposedly 31/12/12). Maybe BT will look at the lines when installing that.

Incidentally, since I've changed filters, nothing has happened. Shocker

[pctech]

Sorry Niall, bit of a cold so head a bit fuzzy at the moment.

You mean changing the filters hasn't improved things?

[Niall]

Yeah. I swapped them just to see if the noise margins changed, but there was no movement at all. I know it can take a few days to pick up a change, which is why I mentioned the above

[Steve]

I think you've been banded Niall, however looking at your stats you current downstream margin is relatively low compared to the 1st August this year,this suggests to me you've currently got a lot of interface affecting your line.

[Niall]

This is the problem. I get told this each time, then BT fix something and it works. Annoyingly the implication is that I'm somehow at fault with this, which I've completely ruled out here, as confirmed with the BT engineer. As mentioned above, there was a fault at the exchange last time and everything points to issues with the physical line itself, e.g. water/degraded cable/damage to the cab/problems at the exchange. Trouble is no one seems to care anymore and I'm left with a cr*p line.

[psp83]

Just a warning. If you keep complaining about your connection, BT can declare your line unfit for broadband & then you will not get anywhere at all!

It's a pain in the arse having a noise issue, I still get the same problem on my FTTC, my connection can go from 50Mb/s to 70Mb/s or anywhere in between, depends on the time of day I disconnect the modem.

[Niall]

I've contacted support, they've got back to me saying the line report is clear so they reported it to BT who have gotten back to idnet saying they want to send an engineer, so I'm having to wait until Saturday the 13th for them. Seems that BT are implying there's a fault outside too. Probably the botched repair they made last time has or is failing.

Ah well, progress it seems.

[Niall]

Just a warning. If you keep complaining about your connection, BT can declare your line unfit for broadband & then you will not get anywhere at all!

It's a pain in the arse having a noise issue, I still get the same problem on my FTTC, my connection can go from 50Mb/s to 70Mb/s or anywhere in between, depends on the time of day I disconnect the modem.

Not applicable in my case as I've only ever had BT out 3 times and its due to their hardware failing, nothing to do with me. My mum had them out on her line which is the same main line, split at the connection outside the house to two phone lines. It's always been a BT failure when they've been out. The stress it causes is enough to not want to call support at all, with the threats of charges. I hate the way that's even allowed. It's like being accused of being a liar or of damaging things yourself.

There should be no threat of a charge. Last time BT tried to raise a charge even though it was their fault, so idnet told them to foff

[psp83]

BT can still declare a line unfit for broadband even if its their fault, as longs the line is fine for voice.

So just treat the BTo engineer nice and offer tea etc, then he won't go back complaining 

So far I've been lucky as the BTo engineers thats been out to me have lived locally so I see them about 

[pctech]

I agree, apart from the miserable git that installed my second line back in 2004 the engineers I've come across have been great.

Will be interesting to see what they do but as Paul says, don't whinge about BT this or BT that to them, we know BT as an organisation is a pain in the rear but provided you don't come across as a whinging git and are friendly they will do what they can for you.

[Niall]

Yes, I'm not daft. I've had them here before. I also work directly opposite the exchange so if they ruin my line I'll be throwing heavy things at them from my office window

[psp83]

Yes, I'm not daft. I've had them here before. I also work directly opposite the exchange so if they ruin my line I'll be throwing heavy things at them from my office window

Attach an ethernet cable so they can plug you directly into the matrix! 

[pctech]

Yep a direct ethernet feed would do the trick.

No more of this synchronisation nonsense.

[Niall]

I actually considered enquiring about a mortgage for a house for sale next to the exchange a few months ago, but it's chavtastic by there

[Niall]

Colour me suspicious. 1 day before BT are due to arrive, my connection for the first time in several months, returns to 13mb.

Mon 08 Oct 2012  18:29:28,    Noise Margin= 9.4, Sync Speed= 6652, Upstream NM= 9.4
Thu 11 Oct 2012  21:21:21,    Noise Margin= 8.7, Sync Speed= 12835, Upstream NM= 8.9

[Niall]

Well 2 days later and still no reply from IDnet via their contact page. I sent them an email on thursday telling them the line has mysteriously repaired itself and to check my line & with BT to see if they've done anything as I won't be paying BT anything for turning up to repair a line with nothing wrong. So today came, the BT engineer turned up, confirmed the line is flawless, in fact it's better than most in the area AC wise (said it's 78 when most are around 55 in this area).

Very disappointed that IDnet didn't reply to my contact via their own contact page. At least I can't be charged for this seemingly needless visit as I did point it out prior to the visit date. The engineer also told me that he thinks that something may have been repaired somewhere along the path to the exchange, which may explain why my line suddenly returned to normal on Thursday. He also said that the only other possibility is that either the ISP or the exchange had capped the speed and it hadn't been removed (didn't use these exact words, he was trying to explain things to me in laymans terms, which was actually confusing me more than if he told me using technical jargon )

I've left routerstats running since I came home from work to discover the increase in speed on Thursday.

Sat 13 Oct 2012  10:14:08,    Noise Margin= 8.8, Sync Speed= 12835, Upstream NM= 9.5
Sat 13 Oct 2012  10:14:23,    Noise Margin= ., Sync Speed= 0, Upstream NM= . (engineer resetting the line to do additional tests)
Sat 13 Oct 2012  10:26:08,    Noise Margin= 9.1, Sync Speed= 12747, Upstream NM= 9.2
Sat 13 Oct 2012  10:26:23,    Noise Margin= ., Sync Speed= 0, Upstream NM= . (engineer resetting the line to do additional tests)
Sat 13 Oct 2012  10:39:39,    Noise Margin= ., Sync Speed= 0, Upstream NM= . (engineer resetting the line to do additional tests)
Sat 13 Oct 2012  10:39:54,    Noise Margin= 8.9, Sync Speed= 12751, Upstream NM= 9.9
Sat 13 Oct 2012  10:45:24,    Noise Margin= 9.4, Sync Speed= 12751, Upstream NM= 9.0
Sat 13 Oct 2012  10:45:39,    Noise Margin= ., Sync Speed= 0, Upstream NM= . (engineer resetting the line to do additional tests)
Sat 13 Oct 2012  10:59:09,    Noise Margin= 9.2, Sync Speed= 12605, Upstream NM= 9.6
Sat 13 Oct 2012  10:59:24,    Noise Margin= ., Sync Speed= 0, Upstream NM= . (engineer resetting the line to do additional tests)
Sat 13 Oct 2012  11:03:24,    Noise Margin= 8.9, Sync Speed= 12759, Upstream NM= 10.0
Sat 13 Oct 2012  11:03:39,    Noise Margin= 9.2, Sync Speed= 12759, Upstream NM= 9.3

All is well. I have to say though, the timing of the sudden fix is more than a little coincidental! Still, very disappointed in not hearing from IDnet support. They've never left me waiting 2 days for a reply before. The timing of this first lapse couldn't have been worse really.

[Steve]

Just a thought in view of the new website roll out this week, I wonder whether there has been issues with the contact page.

[Niall]

Couldn't say, although it's a possibility I suppose. I did get the automated reply from the page, but that took a while, so it's possible there's an issue. Ironically I used the contact page incase there were email problems Still, at least I have a record of contacting them to say the line has sorted itself out, so if BT to apply a charge I won't be liable for it. That being said, the engineer seemed very understanding of the situation and said that they wouldn't charge me even if there was a charge, but he said it in the way that the ISP would be liable for the charge if there was one, so I'm not sure if they'll apply one or not. Either way I'm safe and have a seemingly working line again.

I've downloaded a couple of files and it seems fine. Where before msn messenger would drop out when I maxed the download speed, now it seems fine. The engineer confirmed there wasn't a single error on the line either. He even stripped back the wiring outside and confirmed that when they'd fixed my mums phone they've replaced the box and all the wiring with new cables by the look of it, so all is fine. We (he) also confirmed once again there is nothing wrong with the setup in my room. He asked what the HD freeview box was that the router was on, so I calmed his fears by pointing out it wasn't/hasn't been connected and was just sitting there out the way for his visit.

I also asked him about the things that can effect line stability and he reeled off volumes of things. It's quite worrying, the amount of things that cause issues for the line quality.

[Simon_idnet]

I also asked him about the things that can effect line stability and he reeled off volumes of things. It's quite worrying, the amount of things that cause issues for the line quality.

We had a case a while back where a customer complained that his once good service had deteriorated badly. After checking everything several times over it transpired that his line ran past a water treatment works, on its way to the Exchange, and that the water company had built a new building right by the road to house a new water pump. That water pump was generating electrical interference so much that it was badly affecting the ADSL signals in the phone lines. The water company was not going to move their pump house and BT were not going to move several hundred yards of phone poles. So, our customer, who once had great broadband, now has rubbish broadband and we are powerless to help him.

I relate this story just to point out that sometimes there are situations beyond anyones control that can adversely affect broadband performance.

I'll get someone to search for your contact form message.

[Niall]

*sigh*

Sat 13 Oct 2012  13:38:18,    Noise Margin= 9.0, Sync Speed= 12759, Upstream NM= 9.2
Sat 13 Oct 2012  13:38:33,    Noise Margin= ., Sync Speed= 0, Upstream NM= .
Sat 13 Oct 2012  13:38:48,    Noise Margin= ., Sync Speed= 0, Upstream NM= .
Sat 13 Oct 2012  13:39:03,    Noise Margin= ., Sync Speed= 0, Upstream NM= .
Sat 13 Oct 2012  13:39:18,    Noise Margin= 12.1, Sync Speed= 11031, Upstream NM= 9.2

This is how it starts. Every time. NM jumps up and line resets. If this follows the pattern from previous experience, in 3 days this will drop to 9mb, then 6. Odd that just before an engineer arrives it fixes itself, now when he leaves the problem returns. Seriously, what are the odds of that happening? 

Just checked heating timers, etc, in the house and nothing was on at 1:30 and no one else was here. Dunno why I checked really, as we'd already ruled out stuff in my house God this annoys me no end. The engineer did say to me that there could be something like 200 connections between here and the exchange and any one of those having issues could cause problems. I'm wondering if the fact it poured down earlier has caused an issue on the main road or something. Bah.

Oh, the only thing I was doing at 1:30 was downloading a new game through Steam, so it seems maxing the line caused errors and the speed dropped. Can't see how that generates noise though, so it's probably a combination of things. I just can't get beyond the MASSIVE coincidence of the line conveniently fixing itself before the engineer visit and going wonky after he left

[pctech]

I don't think you are likely to get it fixed Niall

[Niall]

Well the connection is back to complete cr*p again, to be exact it was actually last week around wednesday it went but I thought I'd leave it for a bit to see what's what. 6mb and msn drops if I'm downloading anything at the max speed of the line. Awesome.

[Simon_idnet]

Hi Niall

I see that your area is due to get FTTC in the New Year. Hopefully, that might help your line.

[Niall]

Yeah I'm hoping that too. This is annoying as hell and I'd love to know what's causing the issue, especially when it's been confirmed that the line is fine and nothing at my end has a problem.

What else could there be? I'm guessing its BT doing work to implement FTTC as nothing has changed. And changes on the road from mine to the exchange would stand out a mile. The upgrades are the only changes around here. Cabinets are popping up for fibre but that's it.

Does anyone happen to know if there's an actual difference to the old standard cabinets when try change from the big 4ft wide ones to a 1ft wide/2ft tall one? That's the only other thing I can think of that's changed here. No new houses, no new buildings, no new work, roadworks started for fibre after I had problems.

Personally I think BT are lying through their teeth.

[Den]

I've had a email today telling  me that Infinity has been activated on my exchange. Starting to twitch, I don't want to leave Idnet but BT is so much cheaper for broadband infinity and inclusive calls. Help, what should I do?

[zappaDPJ]

You generally get what you pay for and with BT you don't pay a lot...

Or to put it another way if I was to leave IDNet in favour of a cheaper, unlimited service subject to fair use, BT would be at the bottom of my list.

In my view it's a gamble. It might pay off it might not. I've seen a lot of complaints recently from people left with no service at all because the current weather situation has created a lot of faults leaving new connections delayed by weeks and in one case I read about, months.

[pctech]

BT maybe fine until something goes wrong.

Firstly you do about 50 loops of their IVR system then if you are lucky you'll get to talk to someone who actually knows what they are talking about, if not you'll get a script monkey.

Question is, do ya feel lucky, punk?

[Steve]

I think FTTC is a very stable product and in terms of reliability I wouldn't have thought there's anything to choose between any of them. We 've had members here gone to BT and as far as I am aware they are happy, it is a question of economics, customer service,network quality and possibly contract length, only you can decide which is your main priority.

[Den]

The problem is with BT I can have infinity plus phone calls for £18 with a 40gb download allowance. Just checked on Idnet website and it's at least £10 more every month. I either stay on ADSL+2 and have 8.3mb or Infinity and get 20mb+ for the same price. I do NOT want to leave Idnet as I am very happy here but I am twitching. 

[Rik]

IDNet will offer fibre as soon as it's available to them, Den.

[Gary]

I have a few friends on FTTC in my nearest town, they switched to BT and seem pretty happy, considering how little time you spend on calls to support in reality I think if cost is a factor or a deal can be had go with what's best suited for you, Den. Brand Loyalty does not mean much in this day and age. (no offence to idnet) but its the same with most companies, you have to look after your own needs at the end of the day.

[Den]

IDNet will offer fibre as soon as it's available to them, Den.

It is on the Idnet website right now but they want about £27 including VAT  (25 gb download allowance) and without the phone calls, or am I misreading it?  On that basis it's a no brainer, or I stay as I am of course.   

[Rik]

There's price and then there's quality.

[Steve]

Plus of course there's a variety of connection/activation charges to take into account. I possibly worth checking how much of an uplift you'll get with FTTC compared to your adsl2+

[Technical Ben]

Currently IDNet are more expensive on the ASDL2+ Route AFAIK. I'll stick with them a little longer (increased allowances really help). But I'm still undecided as there are some good deals that other business broadband resellers offer.

I've had no problems with IDNet though, so they have built up my customer loyalty.

As to FTTC, it's early days still? So hard to call unless it's compared price alone, and to be fair that's not really where IDNet compete.

[Gary]

Im perfectly happy with idnet and adsl2+ all is happy days. Compared with other peoples providers  life here is good. If however FTTC comes to town (we are not in any roll out plans right now) I'll look around. Maybe by then peeps that have moved to BT may be seeing a different side to the service, who knows. Also as far as price and quality, well sometimes those lines seem more and more blurred these days and I can see that maybe becoming a moot point at some time in the not to distant future.

[mervl]

From my experience on VDSL2 (FTTC) over 15 months, the two most significant factors are the length and quality of the local loop between your property and the cab (which in my case "limits" me to about 40/6 Mbps sync (actual measured speeds max out at 90%) - not that I find it very limiting, in fact not at all); and the ISPs own network. However, I don't really derive practical benefit from IDNet's network because of the limitations of my local OpenReach loop. However, both the network and local loop are stable - the only rare loss of service (once to twice a month or less, normally of a few minutes duration) are due to faults or upgrades at the BT wholesale PoP where I surmise BT connect to IDNet's network. Both the cabinet DSLAM and OpenReach DLM  are hugely more stable and less much restricting of performance than my former experience of the ADSL/2 equivalents (which I gather have been improved since anyway). The roll-out OR spreadsheet showed an expected uplift of 8x over ADSL for my line, in fact it's over 9x (due to the excess of the exchange distance where the copper is now replaced by fibre over the cab distance which remains copper/ali). It has not deteriorated as take up has increased, and quite frankly I can't see why it should, in the absence of a line fault - for as far as I can see the OR local loop is managed to avoid crosstalk problems.

My ADSL line was so abysmal (i.e. capable of 5.5Mbps but ran at under 2-3.5Mbps, latency in the hundreds usually) that to manage VOIP and homeworking I invested in a fixed wireless service. It gives around a 10Mbps symmetrical service and latency under 10ms - good enough for everything I want to do, so there was no "need" case for my FTTC upgrade. The FTTC "local loop" factor is shown by the minumum latency on VDSL2 being 16ms - 8ms just to the cab according to the modem, with INP set at 3 and high levels of FEC, showing that interleaving is necessary. Whilst the fixed wireless service is unmanaged and has the odd off-day, the FTTC never does. To be fair to my former ADSL as far as I could ascertain the "problems" were all at the local loop and exchange - even with one of the cheap'n-cheerful ISPs (well, not so cheerful, actually).

Still all that is irrelevant for those with a BT allergy, you don't have to trust anyone - or anything - if you don't want to.

[Niall]

IDNet will offer fibre as soon as it's available to them, Den.

It is on the Idnet website right now but they want about £27 including VAT  (25 gb download allowance) and without the phone calls, or am I misreading it?  On that basis it's a no brainer, or I stay as I am of course.   

Oddly, BOTH Wrexham exchanges are now showing 31/12 for Fibre to be updated. Are you sure you've got it?

[Den]

I'm sure, I have had both phone calls and emails asking me to sign up.    Still undecided though as I don't down load films or play games and everything else is OK at my present speed. 

[Niall]

I want my 15mb back and could really use more than 888 up. I think the reason my upload has dropped is that IDnet have at some time changed the packages and the speed I was getting before that was prioritised traffic (apparently) has now stopped. Looking at the packages, it would explain my upload drop. Whatever the reason, the upload speed is killing me as camera sensor sizes increase which almost tripled my photo file size

[Niall]

Okay, this is now beyond a joke. I really want this sorted. 6mb line, ZERO errors, BT themselves and all line checkers say I should be getting 14mb but I'm getting SIX. If BT tell me there are no problems with the line, my equipment has been ruled out too, obviously there's nothing wrong with the several filters I have either. I've even changed the firmware on the router and have two routers with the same results.

Now, if the line is fine, the exchange is fine, my equipment is all fine then surely that leaves IDnet?

Ideas before I send yet another ticket off? I might even migrate somewhere else if it isn't fixed now as this is just annoying the hell out of me. Everyone is saying it's not their fault but it must be someone's fault. To say I've been patient is an understatement as I've given it several months and have spent a small fortune replacing routers, cables, filters, PC components, etc.

[Lance]

Or quite simply the 14mb estimate is wrong and not achievable and 6mb is the best your line will support. 

[Simon]

I was wondering that too.  You could just be on a wild goose chase, trying to achieve speeds that are simply not possible on your line, despite the line checker estimations. 

[Technical Ben]

The estimations are plain and simply that.
If you get a higher speed with a particular provider, that's where you would need to check. Have you tried a different provider? If not, then it is entirely an "estimation" on their service, and I'd be suprised if they do anything faster (unless it's LLU, you can get a slight increase, not much, but slight from LLU).

[Steve]

Somewhere between the exchange and the master socket there is a 'fault' whether that be physical or induced interference I've no idea, but the plain fact is that it is a characteristic of your line,it also appears BT have little interest in improving the situation. So your probably stuck with it and hope FTTC gives some stability back or you try elsewhere but then that will simply transfer the issue to the other provider.

[Den]

Niall, BT are working all over Wrexham to get the fibre up and running, surely another month is not to long to wait and then you will have the speeds you are dreaming about.

I have had another letter and phone call from BT asking me to change to fibre so they will want you on board either via BT or Idnet and a few more weeks will soon go by. 

[mervl]

Having been in a similar position in the past  , and Routerstats/line tests didn't help, if there is a fault, the only thing I could do was wait until (maybe in this hostile weather) it got worse and started to affect the voice line, evidenced by the Quiet Line Test (which I tried regularly) when the voice provider could become involved. Still didn't recover previous speed after engineering works though. My "problems" have been solved with FTTC (despite the poor quality loop from the cab), where I still get the full expected speed based on cab distance. The other advantage of FTTC if you are prepared to unlock the modem is you can undertake real time monitoring of the connection parameters which can help with the necessary troubleshooting/persuasion. But with DSL there's no guarantee (but with the engineer install on FTTC they will test the line from your premises on install) - it's the nature of the game  when you use a copper loop for a purpose it was not designed for. If really desperate - and money no object - FTTC will have an upgrade path to FTTP in the future which sorts everything out (well, subject to an imperfect world). Locally it was 3m from first cab appearance to service being available to order, but that was with a straightforward cab install, no blocked ducts or carriageway works and power connection readily available.

[Niall]

It's just annoying the hell out of me. No one seems to give a cr*p. I get generic answers from support and BT say there's nothing wrong with the line, and as mentioned earlier they even say themselves that from the tests the engineer ran I SHOULD be getting 14mb, it's not just an estimate a checker gives. I've checked other ISPs checkers that allow you to look at all types of connections and congestion (plusnets was quite handy) and everything shows no problems, no work, no disruption, and no issues. While the engineer did say that sometimes there could be a fault further down the line, he did virtually rule that out by confirming the strength of my line.

When you look at the route the road goes from here to town, there's nothing new. Even when the fibre work was being done that cut across the road I'm on, there wasn't even a twitch in noise, etc.

Also, why is it that 2 days before the engineer came my connection returned to 15mb then ONE HOUR after he left, it started dropping again? Either something at the exchange side is resetting my line to 6mb and BT aren't telling IDnet, or IDnet are changing something on their side and aren't telling me and BT. Someone MUST know what the issue is. If everything and everyone including trained engineers tell me my line should me more than double what I'm getting, which I always had before, then I'd really like someone to pull something out their bum and sort it.

Is it too much to ask after having 6-7 months of cr*p and spending a LOT of money replacing parts that weren't even faulty? I ended up  buying a second router once as I was led down the wrong road in an earlier thread. That pleased me.

[pctech]

I wonder if it's part of standard practice before an engineer visit to reset DLM which is why you are seeing the increase but then DLM drops the speed for some reason.

I assume IDNet still have their feed from Telefonica/O2 Wholesale? If you've got the kit at your exchange why don't you ask if they can switch you across to that, no annoying DLM on that.

[Den]

Just for Niall   

http://www.wrexham.com/news/wrexhams-fibre-broadband-goes-live-14959.html

[pctech]

Kick him while he's down why don't ya

[Niall]

They were the first to report it eh? I smell lies.

They're digging up osbourne road by my estate at the moment. They've had the roadworks laying the cable to the new cabinet and now they've dug up the road next to it. I'm hoping this is the first stage of the cable being installed the next 800 yards to my estate

P.S. Sod off Den

[andrue]

It's just annoying the hell out of me. No one seems to give a cr*p. I get generic answers from support and BT say there's nothing wrong with the line

I know what you mean. I've had the same experiences with IDNet Support.

All I can suggest is that you stick with it. Try and stay polite (difficult I know) but my experience is that if you pester IDNet for long enough they will eventually pull their finger out and investigate. Not always but I recently won my first victory against their intransigence (see the 'Congestion?' thread).

That saga still isn't over because my upload is still not right but now I know not to give up. Don't let them fob you off.

[mervl]

. . .my upload is still not right but now I know not to give up. Don't let them fob you off.

Interesting, on FTTC too, I'm noticing my upload throughput is consistently half of what it used to be, though having a modem which supplies stats the attainable upload rate reported by the DSLAM has not changed, neither has the bit loading across the (same) upload range. I surmise therefore it's not the local loop and as there has been no change at the BTw level - the connection is stable at the BT PoP (Stepney Green red 6), and the TBBQM is still as consistent as ever with no packet loss - it might be the IDNet part of the network? Won't bother with a line test though - I suspect I know the result. Let us know if you get anywhere . . .

[Steve]

Good to know the local data's not changed though.

[Technical Ben]

I would assume most of FTTC is still in "beta" and subject to change, is it not?

[mervl]

Not sure I understand FTTC as a "beta"? As far as I'm aware BT use a profile (EDIT 17a) of VDSL2, an adopted international International Telecommunications Union (part, I believe of the UN) standard (Annex B of the  G993.2 standard, adopted in February 2006, though it may have been updated). As it's an international standard is how foreign-manufactured equipment can be used on the network. (Like all DSL though, you're right it suffers from the limitations of the copper part of the local network to the EU premises, but though I might describe the old GPO part of the network as many things, "beta" wouldn't be one of them, although "obsolescent" might be (though in my case, at least consistently so for the time being). 

EDIT: Some adjustments, e.g. power levels are made at individual cabs to reduce local interference with ADSL  but in my experience here that doesn't change once set; and BT have their own PSD mask to avoid interference with their analogue voice service but I don't think that varies with locality (that's another one of my bugbears but another story not for IDNetters!). I know the upstream range and speeds did change when BT moved from their original modified 8c profile and changed Bandplan over a year ago, but I don't think there's been any change in that since despite the removal of the original 40meg downstream cap (which I've kept).

[Lance]

Not really given that FTTC has been out for a while now. Mind you, BT are undoubtably constantly changing their networks to cope.

[pctech]

Anyone got any flashing or 'chasing' Christmas lights near you as I understand these can affect ADSL so probably VDSL too.

[mervl]

Anyone got any flashing or 'chasing' Christmas lights near you as I understand these can affect ADSL so probably VDSL too.

No lights at all around this year back to the cab yet - we must be a miserable lot. Strange thing is it's only the upload - wouldn't both normally be affected by interference, as the VDSL frequencies are alternate across the frequency range? The tone/frequency allocation reported by the modem is also unchanged from when the upload was higher. My thought was exchange congestion (but only upload?) until I found someone elsewhere having issues which corresponded to IDNet's work. Nothing reported on exchange though, and Point Topic's uptake map shows a low local FTTC uptake - though I suspect this masks a higher uptake in new development areas closer to the exchange; but speeds don't differ across the day, and low uploads occur Sundays mornings and early mornings after midnight too, and I wouldn't expect a few exorbitant uploaders to skew BTw by that much, but you never know of course!  BTs commercial confidentiality doesn't let any of us know what lies beyond the exchange does it - we just pay their bills!

[Niall]

My exchange went live today. Have they installed a cabinet by my estate? Of course not. So I'll have a nice cr*p connection for another 7 months now. Ace.

Openreach (@Openreach_news) tweeted at 11:24am - 10 Dec 12:

Superfast broadband has started to become available in WREXHAM (https://twitter.com/Openreach_news/status/278097750451707904)

[Steve]

What LLU options do you have Niall if any?

[andrue]

Interesting, on FTTC too, I'm noticing my upload throughput is consistently half of what it used to be, though having a modem which supplies stats the attainable upload rate reported by the DSLAM has not changed, neither has the bit loading across the (same) upload range. I surmise therefore it's not the local loop and as there has been no change at the BTw level - the connection is stable at the BT PoP (Stepney Green red 6), and the TBBQM is still as consistent as ever with no packet loss - it might be the IDNet part of the network? Won't bother with a line test though - I suspect I know the result. Let us know if you get anywhere . . .

I've been seeing reduced upload since the 15th of November. Not as bad as yours but my usual 14 dropped to 12 when Simon suggested we reboot our routers to fix the congestion issue (I commented on the fact http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,29876.msg699561.html#msg699561). It's as plain as day looking at my stored Speedtest.net results. It went from around 14 to around 12. BT speedtester reports 16.

Simon says it's just speedtester.net variation and that it's a 'slight' difference, the implication apparently being that I should stop bothering him

I've investigated it further though and have found something interesting. It only impacts HTTP traffic. Upload to my IDNet web space goes at 16Mb/s as does uploading to one of the few free FTP hosts (Smartfile I think it was).

[Niall]

Okay I'm emailing support. Openreach say they're accepting orders for my postcode, so maybe they'll tell me more.

I've also asked them to look at my connection from their side as BT tell me my line and equipment are fine, with no errors. Ho hum.

[Steve]

BT retail's website was my first indication that FTTC was active via their speed checker. Also here -

https://www.btwholesale.com/pages/static/Community/Broadband_Community/Coverage/ADSL_Availibility_Checker.html#

Obviously it's only accurate if you use your phone number

[Niall]

I just got a reply stating BT say the exchange goes live 31/12 and they didn't even bother replying to my query regarding my line, so I've had to email back stating openreach clearly states the exchange is live.

To be honest, with that response I don't hold out much hope to get anywhere

[lozcart]

I've been seeing reduced upload since the 15th of November. Not as bad as yours but my usual 14 dropped to 12 when Simon suggested we reboot our routers to fix the congestion issue (I commented on the fact http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,29876.msg699561.html#msg699561). It's as plain as day looking at my stored Speedtest.net results. It went from around 14 to around 12. BT speedtester reports 16.

Simon says it's just speedtester.net variation and that it's a 'slight' difference, the implication apparently being that I should stop bothering him

I've investigated it further though and have found something interesting. It only impacts HTTP traffic. Upload to my IDNet web space goes at 16Mb/s as does uploading to one of the few free FTP hosts (Smartfile I think it was).

I have to agree that something happened on 15th November and it hasn't been corrected. Prior to the 15th my minimum latency was always 10ms and had been like this since my FTTC installation during Feb 2012. On 15th Nov it rose to 15ms and has not returned back to 10ms despite some reconnections both forced and by BT.

[mervl]

  As I'm responsible for contaminating this thread, apologies, I'm thinking whether it might be useful to start a new thread for reporting (is it just FTTC?) issues that may have arisen from/at the time of IDNet's November reboot of their servers, and remain unresolved to see if any link or pattern emerges? It seems so far to be a mix of increased latency and affected upload speeds, but different for each of the three of us reporting so far. My latency has been consistent, but upload speeds halved and it affects both http and FTP uploads.

[andrue]

Upload/latency issues can be discussed here:

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,30054.0.html

[Simon]

Would it be an idea to close this thread then, if it's no longer relevant?

[Niall]

Close your own thread My problems are on going!