So, what gives?

Simon · Nov 29, 2012, 17:46:09

I was wondering that too. You could just be on a wild goose chase, trying to achieve speeds that are simply not possible on your line, despite the line checker estimations.

Technical Ben · Nov 29, 2012, 18:19:47

The estimations are plain and simply that.
If you get a higher speed with a particular provider, that's where you would need to check. Have you tried a different provider? If not, then it is entirely an "estimation" on their service, and I'd be suprised if they do anything faster (unless it's LLU, you can get a slight increase, not much, but slight from LLU).

Steve · Nov 29, 2012, 19:14:54

Somewhere between the exchange and the master socket there is a 'fault' whether that be physical or induced interference I've no idea, but the plain fact is that it is a characteristic of your line,it also appears BT have little interest in improving the situation. So your probably stuck with it and hope FTTC gives some stability back or you try elsewhere but then that will simply transfer the issue to the other provider.

Den · Nov 29, 2012, 19:33:47

Niall, BT are working all over Wrexham to get the fibre up and running, surely another month is not to long to wait and then you will have the speeds you are dreaming about.

I have had another letter and phone call from BT asking me to change to fibre so they will want you on board either via BT or Idnet and a few more weeks will soon go by.

mervl · Nov 29, 2012, 19:53:58

Having been in a similar position in the past

, and Routerstats/line tests didn't help, if there is a fault, the only thing I could do was wait until (maybe in this hostile weather) it got worse and started to affect the voice line, evidenced by the Quiet Line Test (which I tried regularly) when the voice provider could become involved. Still didn't recover previous speed after engineering works though. My "problems" have been solved with FTTC (despite the poor quality loop from the cab), where I still get the full expected speed based on cab distance. The other advantage of FTTC if you are prepared to unlock the modem is you can undertake real time monitoring of the connection parameters which can help with the necessary troubleshooting/persuasion. But with DSL there's no guarantee (but with the engineer install on FTTC they will test the line from your premises on install) - it's the nature of the game when you use a copper loop for a purpose it was not designed for. If really desperate - and money no object - FTTC will have an upgrade path to FTTP in the future which sorts everything out (well, subject to an imperfect world). Locally it was 3m from first cab appearance to service being available to order, but that was with a straightforward cab install, no blocked ducts or carriageway works and power connection readily available.

Niall · Nov 29, 2012, 20:06:21

It's just annoying the hell out of me. No one seems to give a cr*p. I get generic answers from support and BT say there's nothing wrong with the line, and as mentioned earlier they even say themselves that from the tests the engineer ran I SHOULD be getting 14mb, it's not just an estimate a checker gives. I've checked other ISPs checkers that allow you to look at all types of connections and congestion (plusnets was quite handy) and everything shows no problems, no work, no disruption, and no issues. While the engineer did say that sometimes there could be a fault further down the line, he did virtually rule that out by confirming the strength of my line.

When you look at the route the road goes from here to town, there's nothing new. Even when the fibre work was being done that cut across the road I'm on, there wasn't even a twitch in noise, etc.

Also, why is it that 2 days before the engineer came my connection returned to 15mb then ONE HOUR after he left, it started dropping again? Either something at the exchange side is resetting my line to 6mb and BT aren't telling IDnet, or IDnet are changing something on their side and aren't telling me and BT. Someone MUST know what the issue is. If everything and everyone including trained engineers tell me my line should me more than double what I'm getting, which I always had before, then I'd really like someone to pull something out their bum and sort it.

Is it too much to ask after having 6-7 months of cr*p and spending a LOT of money replacing parts that weren't even faulty? I ended up buying a second router once as I was led down the wrong road in an earlier thread. That pleased me.

pctech · Dec 01, 2012, 15:37:27

I wonder if it's part of standard practice before an engineer visit to reset DLM which is why you are seeing the increase but then DLM drops the speed for some reason.

I assume IDNet still have their feed from Telefonica/O2 Wholesale? If you've got the kit at your exchange why don't you ask if they can switch you across to that, no annoying DLM on that.

Den · Dec 06, 2012, 16:55:54

Just for Niall

http://www.wrexham.com/news/wrexhams-fibre-broadband-goes-live-14959.html

pctech · Dec 06, 2012, 17:03:30

Kick him while he's down why don't ya

Niall · Dec 06, 2012, 18:39:44

They were the first to report it eh? I smell lies.

They're digging up osbourne road by my estate at the moment. They've had the roadworks laying the cable to the new cabinet and now they've dug up the road next to it. I'm hoping this is the first stage of the cable being installed the next 800 yards to my estate

P.S. Sod off Den

andrue · Dec 06, 2012, 22:32:16

Quote from: Niall on Nov 29, 2012, 20:06:21
It's just annoying the hell out of me. No one seems to give a cr*p. I get generic answers from support and BT say there's nothing wrong with the line

I know what you mean. I've had the same experiences with IDNet Support.

All I can suggest is that you stick with it. Try and stay polite (difficult I know) but my experience is that if you pester IDNet for long enough they will eventually pull their finger out and investigate. Not always but I recently won my first victory against their intransigence (see the 'Congestion?' thread).

That saga still isn't over because my upload is still not right but now I know not to give up. Don't let them fob you off.

mervl · Dec 09, 2012, 16:38:31

Quote from: andrue on Dec 06, 2012, 22:32:16
. . .my upload is still not right but now I know not to give up. Don't let them fob you off.

Interesting, on FTTC too, I'm noticing my upload throughput is consistently half of what it used to be, though having a modem which supplies stats the attainable upload rate reported by the DSLAM has not changed, neither has the bit loading across the (same) upload range. I surmise therefore it's not the local loop and as there has been no change at the BTw level - the connection is stable at the BT PoP (Stepney Green red 6), and the TBBQM is still as consistent as ever with no packet loss - it might be the IDNet part of the network? Won't bother with a line test though - I suspect I know the result. Let us know if you get anywhere . . .

Steve · Dec 09, 2012, 17:01:05

Good to know the local data's not changed though.

Technical Ben · Dec 09, 2012, 18:44:30

I would assume most of FTTC is still in "beta" and subject to change, is it not?

mervl · Dec 09, 2012, 20:13:05

Not sure I understand FTTC as a "beta"? As far as I'm aware BT use a profile (EDIT 17a) of VDSL2, an adopted international International Telecommunications Union (part, I believe of the UN) standard (Annex B of the G993.2 standard, adopted in February 2006, though it may have been updated). As it's an international standard is how foreign-manufactured equipment can be used on the network. (Like all DSL though, you're right it suffers from the limitations of the copper part of the local network to the EU premises, but though I might describe the old GPO part of the network as many things, "beta" wouldn't be one of them, although "obsolescent" might be (though in my case, at least consistently so for the time being).

EDIT: Some adjustments, e.g. power levels are made at individual cabs to reduce local interference with ADSL but in my experience here that doesn't change once set; and BT have their own PSD mask to avoid interference with their analogue voice service but I don't think that varies with locality (that's another one of my bugbears but another story not for IDNetters!). I know the upstream range and speeds did change when BT moved from their original modified 8c profile and changed Bandplan over a year ago, but I don't think there's been any change in that since despite the removal of the original 40meg downstream cap (which I've kept).

Lance · Dec 09, 2012, 20:16:54

Not really given that FTTC has been out for a while now. Mind you, BT are undoubtably constantly changing their networks to cope.

pctech · Dec 10, 2012, 07:46:58

Anyone got any flashing or 'chasing' Christmas lights near you as I understand these can affect ADSL so probably VDSL too.

mervl · Dec 10, 2012, 08:54:55

Quote from: pctech on Dec 10, 2012, 07:46:58
Anyone got any flashing or 'chasing' Christmas lights near you as I understand these can affect ADSL so probably VDSL too.

No lights at all around this year back to the cab yet - we must be a miserable lot. Strange thing is it's only the upload - wouldn't both normally be affected by interference, as the VDSL frequencies are alternate across the frequency range? The tone/frequency allocation reported by the modem is also unchanged from when the upload was higher. My thought was exchange congestion (but only upload?) until I found someone elsewhere having issues which corresponded to IDNet's work. Nothing reported on exchange though, and Point Topic's uptake map shows a low local FTTC uptake - though I suspect this masks a higher uptake in new development areas closer to the exchange; but speeds don't differ across the day, and low uploads occur Sundays mornings and early mornings after midnight too, and I wouldn't expect a few exorbitant uploaders to skew BTw by that much, but you never know of course!

BTs commercial confidentiality doesn't let any of us know what lies beyond the exchange does it - we just pay their bills!

Niall · Dec 10, 2012, 15:10:52

My exchange went live today. Have they installed a cabinet by my estate? Of course not. So I'll have a nice cr*p connection for another 7 months now. Ace.

Openreach (@Openreach_news) tweeted at 11:24am - 10 Dec 12:

Superfast broadband has started to become available in WREXHAM (https://twitter.com/Openreach_news/status/278097750451707904)

Steve · Dec 10, 2012, 15:15:17

What LLU options do you have Niall if any?

andrue · Dec 10, 2012, 15:30:19

Quote from: mervl on Dec 09, 2012, 16:38:31
Interesting, on FTTC too, I'm noticing my upload throughput is consistently half of what it used to be, though having a modem which supplies stats the attainable upload rate reported by the DSLAM has not changed, neither has the bit loading across the (same) upload range. I surmise therefore it's not the local loop and as there has been no change at the BTw level - the connection is stable at the BT PoP (Stepney Green red 6), and the TBBQM is still as consistent as ever with no packet loss - it might be the IDNet part of the network? Won't bother with a line test though - I suspect I know the result. Let us know if you get anywhere . . .

I've been seeing reduced upload since the 15th of November. Not as bad as yours but my usual 14 dropped to 12 when Simon suggested we reboot our routers to fix the congestion issue (I commented on the fact http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,29876.msg699561.html#msg699561). It's as plain as day looking at my stored Speedtest.net results. It went from around 14 to around 12. BT speedtester reports 16.

Simon says it's just speedtester.net variation and that it's a 'slight' difference, the implication apparently being that I should stop bothering him

I've investigated it further though and have found something interesting. It only impacts HTTP traffic. Upload to my IDNet web space goes at 16Mb/s as does uploading to one of the few free FTP hosts (Smartfile I think it was).

Niall · Dec 10, 2012, 17:37:04

Okay I'm emailing support. Openreach say they're accepting orders for my postcode, so maybe they'll tell me more.

I've also asked them to look at my connection from their side as BT tell me my line and equipment are fine, with no errors. Ho hum.

Steve · Dec 10, 2012, 18:12:53

BT retail's website was my first indication that FTTC was active via their speed checker. Also here -

https://www.btwholesale.com/pages/static/Community/Broadband_Community/Coverage/ADSL_Availibility_Checker.html#

Obviously it's only accurate if you use your phone number

Niall · Dec 10, 2012, 18:15:50

I just got a reply stating BT say the exchange goes live 31/12 and they didn't even bother replying to my query regarding my line, so I've had to email back stating openreach clearly states the exchange is live.

To be honest, with that response I don't hold out much hope to get anywhere

lozcart · Dec 10, 2012, 18:29:48

Quote from: andrue on Dec 10, 2012, 15:30:19
I've been seeing reduced upload since the 15th of November. Not as bad as yours but my usual 14 dropped to 12 when Simon suggested we reboot our routers to fix the congestion issue (I commented on the fact http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,29876.msg699561.html#msg699561). It's as plain as day looking at my stored Speedtest.net results. It went from around 14 to around 12. BT speedtester reports 16.

Simon says it's just speedtester.net variation and that it's a 'slight' difference, the implication apparently being that I should stop bothering him

I've investigated it further though and have found something interesting. It only impacts HTTP traffic. Upload to my IDNet web space goes at 16Mb/s as does uploading to one of the few free FTP hosts (Smartfile I think it was).

I have to agree that something happened on 15th November and it hasn't been corrected. Prior to the 15th my minimum latency was always 10ms and had been like this since my FTTC installation during Feb 2012. On 15th Nov it rose to 15ms and has not returned back to 10ms despite some reconnections both forced and by BT.