Congestion?

Technical Ben · Nov 29, 2012, 22:11:28

Wow. And here I was thinking we might be turning into crazy people watching the fire/sky/clouds/sea/tv white noise looking for signals.

It's really annoying when you find a problem, but the information to solve it is hidden in a "black box", through no fault of our own or IDNet's. It requires a lot of tinkering to figure out and use deduction to "see" what is on the inside.

Single threaded downloads being treated differently to multithreaded ones is a strange problem to have, but I understand it would be annoying if you rely on downloads for business (or even just netflix

).

andrue · Nov 29, 2012, 22:23:23

Well the irony is that I don't download much and an accelerator was an acceptable workaround in that respect. What was annoying me most was not knowing what the problem was. Anyway my thanks to Simon and his team for pursuing it and putting up with me. As a programmer of many years I know that some problems take a lot of finding and sometimes the answer is where you least expect it.

Let's hope that's the answer

Technical Ben · Nov 30, 2012, 00:35:45

You never know if it will effect others, or progress to another problem. Just imagine trying to find the reason in 2 years time, when everyone has FTTC and suddenly downloads are capped to 3meg.

Much better to find it now when it's quiet and not "mission critical" on the time and wages.

With IDNet it's not that they are perfect, as no one is. It's that they work really hard at trying to be perfect.

Steve · Nov 30, 2012, 06:19:28

Just checked with an Apple and a Ubuntu download I seem to be just over 4MB/s on a 42mbps line,which I guess is about right.

Gary · Nov 30, 2012, 08:11:32

Im a tad confused, I thought the LNS servers were having new software after a 24 hour delay due to a testing phase, so has that happened and one has gone a bit awry, of did that never happen

Bill · Nov 30, 2012, 08:28:56

Quote from: Simon_idnet on Nov 29, 2012, 21:01:03
Thanks to input from Andrue we have identified a possible issue with one of the LNS servers so we're going to reload it at 04:30 tomorrow morning. Consequently those customers currently connected will see a brief PPP drop as your connection is shifted to one of the other LNS servers.

Ah, so that's what it was

andrue · Nov 30, 2012, 08:39:57

Quote from: Bill on Nov 30, 2012, 08:28:56
Ah, so that's what it was

Your minimum latency dropped a bit as well. Mine seems unchanged in that respect:

But I didn't go online from home before I left for work so I can't comment beyond that. I now have the joy of a day delving back into the depths of ~~depravity~~MS Exchange.

Bill · Nov 30, 2012, 09:02:02

Quote from: andrue on Nov 30, 2012, 08:39:57
Your minimum latency dropped a bit as well.

Only about a millisecond... it still strikes me as highly ironic that I get very good latency but, not being a gamer, provided I don't have to measure it with a calendar I'm not that bothered about it.

andrue · Nov 30, 2012, 11:19:41

Quote from: Bill on Nov 30, 2012, 09:02:02
Only about a millisecond... it still strikes me as highly ironic that I get very good latency but, not being a gamer, provided I don't have to measure it with a calendar I'm not that bothered about it.

It's ironic that the faster my connection the less I want to do with it. I think most months I rarely crack 8GB. Prolly downloaded more investigating this issue than in any week previously

mervl · Nov 30, 2012, 12:50:52

Quote from: andrue on Nov 30, 2012, 11:19:41
It's ironic that the faster my connection the less I want to do with it. I think most months I rarely crack 8GB. Prolly downloaded more investigating this issue than in any week previously

I think that's normal - the way of the world is towards greater efficiency. It doesn't work for t'internet because the consumption growth is driven by playing around. I've always found it strange that the government treats it as a strategic national objective to watch films and play games, but that's democratic politics for you.

(I know I'll get criticised by those whose work is on the internet, but I'm not entirely sure about that 11th commandment that everything done by computer is better!)

andrue · Nov 30, 2012, 12:59:45

Quote from: mervl on Nov 30, 2012, 12:50:52
I think that's normal - the way of the world is towards greater efficiency. It doesn't work for t'internet because the consumption growth is driven by playing around. I've always found it strange that the government treats it as a strategic national objective to watch films and play games, but that's democratic politics for you. (I know I'll get criticised by those whose work is on the internet, but I'm not entirely sure about that 11th commandment that everything done by computer is better!)

Yeah. I can see me using it as an alternative to my existing satellite dish for TV eventually. But for now I have Freesat and Sky PVRs and that means I have almost total control of when I view things anyway. IPTV would only be better if it meant I could watch something as soon as the studio released it instead of waiting for it to be broadcast.

But I don't see that happening so for now even iPlayer and the like are just a backup for the rare occasion when my PVR lets me down.

andrue · Nov 30, 2012, 15:27:12

Yay! That's better:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results/id/1354288940700668357.html

The upload is still wrong but that's a known issue with that tester.

Speedtest.net still seems to have low upstream speed though. But I think Simon has cracked the bigger problem.

psp83 · Nov 30, 2012, 20:33:19

See, thinkbroadband gives me the correct up but incorrect down all the time, thats why I never trust the speed test on that site..

andrue · Nov 30, 2012, 21:57:19

Quote from: psp83 on Nov 30, 2012, 20:33:19
See, thinkbroadband gives me the correct up but incorrect down all the time, thats why I never trust the speed test on that site..

That's unusual but I've seen one other report of that. Most of the error reports though are of the upload never being reported higher than 8Mb/s. For some their Flash tester is better although not for me.

It's irritating I've been using that tester for nigh-on a decade and until FTTC it was very accurate, very real world. In fact the recent problem here showed that. Speedtest.net kept saying my downstream was fine whereas TBB said it was crippled. Now granted we know why the two tests differed but it's an example of how TBB usually tells you what you'll get 'out of the box' whereas speedtest.net tells you what you might get if you use the right tricks.

Hmmm. Thinking about it - are you sure don't have a problem? What speed do the test files come down at? You can always keep more than one download off and see if the combination is better.

Just sayin'

psp83 · Dec 01, 2012, 01:27:23

Test downloads from many sites, including downloads from steam always come in around 6MB/s which is right for my profile..

TBB speedtest was never good for me even on ADSL2, always reported slower speeds.

3 other speed test sites are all around 59000 kbps

psp83 · Dec 01, 2012, 01:30:59

Just tried TBB again and its come back with

andrue · Dec 03, 2012, 08:52:50

Interesting. My connection had a sudden drop in minimum latency this morning. It's back where it was before the 15th. Anyone else seeing that?

Glenn · Dec 03, 2012, 09:30:22

I had a very slight drop at 4am this morning.

psp83 · Dec 03, 2012, 12:36:02

Didn't get one at 4am but my connection has seem generally faster since the drop at around 9:30am sat, dunno if anyone else got a drop then?

andrue · Dec 03, 2012, 14:28:06

I hadn't noticed my earlier graphs:

Saturday:

So actually it looks like a rise over the weekend then dropping back today. It's not actually as low as it was prior to the 15th - just back the way it was before the weekend. How odd

psp83 · Dec 03, 2012, 17:47:29

On FTTC connections interleaving is always active, as soon as you get a noisy line the ping will go up as it increases the interleaving.. nothing you can do about it at the mo.

Steve · Dec 03, 2012, 19:27:20

The time of day looks like an interleave change. Any changes to interleave depth on mine occur between 5-6AM

mervl · Dec 03, 2012, 22:50:58

Quote

So actually it looks like a rise over the weekend then dropping back today. It's not actually as low as it was prior to the 15th - just back the way it was before the weekend. How odd

Could this variable latency be a sign of a local loop line problem, a weak joint perhaps, affected by weather? After the initial doubling of latency when interleaving was switched on my line (after 1 month) latency has been completely stable for nearly 15 months, and over every reconnection. I've seen an experienced BT engineer state that the FTTC DLM does react to emerging line faults well before they are picked up by any remote line test used by ISPs, though how you convince the ISP of that I don't know. Watch this space, perhaps? Unlocking or using a modem which gives you stats might help in seeing what is happening with errors and the SNR - from my experience a major variation seems to be required to trigger an increase in interleaving/latency, and perhaps vice versa.