So it begins

[andrue]

BT now don't need to visit as they think there's a fault at the exchange.

That seems odd. So far it's sounded like a physical line fault. In theory (to my mind at least) all that's in the exchange is an ethernet switch. Don't know if it's optical or has to go through a quick optical->electrical->switch->electrical->optical conversion but that should either work or not. Also I'd think anything wrong there would affect everyone on your cab if not everyone on the exchange.

Weird.

[mervl]

That was my thought too Andrue. I can only think loose wording: "exchange" = cabinet, which actually for VDSL does perform the function of an exchange (which is what my [foreign] modem/router calls it!).

Always a problem since I gather than the OR techs who actually do the installs aren't allowed to touch the VDSL cabs, which are the responsibility of another department. Oh the joys of specialisation of labour (and economies of scale) those shibboleths of economics that we all grew up with.

[Niall]

I'm waiting to see what happens, but on every fault we've had here, BT have said it's a fault at the exchange. We've had noise on phone lines (both), repairs done to sort that which is why we know there's no physical fault here at the house, and when I get an engineer visit arranged, mysteriously my line fixes itself 2-4 days before the visit is due, yet no charge is levied against me. BT once tried to charge me but IDnet disputed this as it was their fault (BT that is) and we couldn't understand how they could even try that.

Now this, I agree is a line fault. It cannot be anything else with the problems I've been having, but possibly they've cocked something up at the exchange too. If this follows a pattern, my line will sort itself out and in a month or so it'll happen again. Annoyingly with FTTC the problem will probably result in a drop of speed to just over the threshold so I won't be able to get it sorted.

Call me paranoid, but I really get the feeling I'm being shafted by BT, after all I've been BSd for near on 2 years by them now

[Niall]

That was my thought too Andrue. I can only think loose wording: "exchange" = cabinet, which actually for VDSL does perform the function of an exchange (which is what my [foreign] modem/router calls it!).

Always a problem since I gather than the OR techs who actually do the installs aren't allowed to touch the VDSL cabs, which are the responsibility of another department. Oh the joys of specialisation of labour (and economies of scale) those shibboleths of economics that we all grew up with.

Not sure about that. Every time I've seen the engineers by the cabinet my connection is attached to, it's always been the same lot. That being said, I've no idea what skill set the person in that van actually has. They were there literally and hour before I got an email saying the problem was at the exchange. What ever it is, I want it sorted as I'm very close to losing my temper completely with it all.

[Niall]

Ha what an absolute joke. Nick emailed me again this morning to advise BT are saying there's no fault at the exchange and a visit is needed!

Getting really pissed off with this bullshit now.

[Niall]

And incase it's not clear, my rant was aimed at BT not Nick, who is being helpful

[Niall]

Right. Engineer has just been and as per usual my line was reset before the visit. No errors on the line and my speed is:



I'm waiting for Idnet to get back to me now when the engineer has submitted his report, but basically he's told me to take it to my MP because I'm clearly being pissed about. So, the ball is back in IDnets court for now.

Every single time I have this fault, the line is reset, the engineer can't see a fault because the line has been reset, goes away saying this. I'm starting to wonder who exactly is pulling the wool over my eyes here. Clearly an engineer can do nothing if the line was reset, which would have been AFTER BT tested the exchange 5 days ago as my line hasn't reset until either last night or today. Same on ADSL when I had problems, same on ADSL+ and now it's the same on FTTC. If the line is fibre to the cabinet, then copper to my property then there would always be a fault on the line if something was wrong with the copper. If it was the cabinet, how has the fault transferred from a copper cabinet to an FTTC cabinet? As far as I'm aware that's not even possible.

So, to sum up someone is resetting my line every time immediately before a visit. BT engineer tells me they don't do that, IDnet said they didn't last time I asked. Engineer can never find a fault when there clearly is one, and now even the engineers are telling me to go to my MP. The long and short of it is that I'm not getting what I'm paying for and it's under the threshold of acceptable speeds (until SOMEONE reset the line immediately before the visit).

Oh, also my line is sluggish as hell now, so I'll have to power down the OR modem again which will no doubt have awesome results...

Time to wait for a response.

Oh and my ping time is triple what it was, so I'm wondering if interleaving has been applied too.

I've sent support an email via the contact page now as I'm not sitting in the house all day waiting for a reply.

[andrue]

Niall, have you ever posted about this on Think Broadband? I don't want to imply that it's a panacea for all your problems (it might be a waste of time) but the guys on there have a lot of experience and might have some ideas. You might even catch the eye of a passing BTor engineer - there's a few that lurk there. There must be some explanation for what's going on.

One thing I will suggest based on something I discovered at the weekend: Make sure you do the tests with every conceivable program disabled. I discovered at the weekend that my tried and trusted ad-blocker is responsible for the naff upload speeds reported by the TBB tester and is also the cause of the poor results from speedtest.net. I've used that application for several years now and would never have guessed that it could impact the upload (not the download  ) like that. What's more I have to actually unload it not just disable filtering.

It goes to prove (and as a software developer I really should know this by now) that it is never, ever safe to assume anything

With an ad-blocker:


Without an ad-blocker:

[Niall]

I never have anything running when I do the speedtests. I also back up the speed test with a random download from either a well seeded torrent, a game on Steam, etc so you get your connection maxed. As recently as Thursday my line was still under 13mb (I downloaded a game through Steam) and suddenly it's up to the speed mentioned above. Same happened last time. I'm really curious to find out who is lying to me, because someone clearly is. Either BT or IDnet are resetting the line immediately before a visit, well within 2-3 days of a visit, just like last time (which I think I mentioned on here at the time).

When I had FTTC installed I was on 34mb and 7.40 up. Today the engineer confirmed the upload speed, but the download has got nowhere near that speed on his tests. He was actually moaning about his own line as he gets 50mb when he was getting 80mb and as he had the tools he diagnosed his fault himself, but OR wouldn't do anything to fix the error he reported because it was within acceptable tolerance. Goes to show how cr*p they can be, and he had a lot of choice words about BTs monopoly too, which makes a change for an engineer!

Anyway, this fault is always there, and my line will, if the same as ADSL slowly drop over the next week or so. I'm sick of it, and I've been far more patient than anyone should have to be, and the fact my line is being reset before each visit implies someone is trying to hide something. The engineer said they don't reset the line as they need to find the fault before doing anything.

Also you have to bear in mind all the false info I've been given over the years (2 ish) of problems, resulting in me spending god knows how much replacing all my networking gear. I've had faceplates, filters, routers, cables all replaced to rule that out. I've even changed all my PC hardware during this period to rule that out, and have since changed it all again as I replaced ageing hardware. I moved electrical appliances out and even turned off every electrical appliance in the house while my mum was on holiday. I've had engineers rule out my equipment (even my spare router) and cabling. I've bought surge protection plug adapters to make sure nothing was up there. We've even coincidentally had the electrics in the house replaced to a more modern system which ruled out problems with the old internal board. We've had engineers out for voice faults on the lines (both mine and my mums). Neither of us have Sky connected via broadband or phone lines (ever). The routers all work perfectly at other peoples houses too.

I have spent I have no idea how many hours and what must be close to £800 replacing hardware since problems started, and I have gotten exactly nowhere. To say I'm close to ceasing to be polite about it anymore, is an understatement. I generally don't give people grief via support, but no one is doing anything for me to date, other than requesting engineer visits and then parroting what the engineer tell them.

Honestly, I have no idea what to do now other than to raise all my questions via MP so I can get clear answers. Well, that's if support give an unsatisfactory answer to my frankly blunt email I sent earlier.

[andrue]

the fact my line is being reset before each visit implies someone is trying to hide something.

I can't see what purpose that would possibly serve. Understand, I'm not suggesting that the fault isn't there. It clearly is. I just can't understand why BT or IDNet or anyone else would be trying to cover it up. Unless there are hundreds or thousands of users out there with the same scenario I just can't see it. The evidence is that BT's FTTC works and for most people works well. Faults happen and they should get fixed. I can't see why they'd choose not to fix something just for one person.

Honestly, I have no idea what to do now other than to raise all my questions via MP so I can get clear answers. Well, that's if support give an unsatisfactory answer to my frankly blunt email I sent earlier.

I think before trying my MP I'd try someone senior at BT then perhaps Ofcom. It depends on your MP though.

[Niall]

I can't see what purpose that would possibly serve. Understand, I'm not suggesting that the fault isn't there. It clearly is. I just can't understand why BT or IDNet or anyone else would be trying to cover it up. Unless there are hundreds or thousands of users out there with the same scenario I just can't see it. The evidence is that BT's FTTC works and for most people works well. Faults happen and they should get fixed. I can't see why they'd choose not to fix something just for one person.I think before trying my MP I'd try someone senior at BT then perhaps Ofcom. It depends on your MP though.

This MP thing was actually the engineers idea. If he's telling me that, then I hold no hope or resolving it. He's also said to raise it with the ombudsman, etc. Regarding the line reset, I have absolutely no idea what could be served by resetting my line immediately before a vist but it's been done twice now. Previously it's happened when I've asked for it to be reset, but was also reset before visits but on those occasions it was because the profile was stuck I think so that may have been BT trying to fix that issue. No one tells me ANYTHING when a fault has been fixed so I've no idea what is being done or why. The one exception is when I think it may have been Simon or Brian passed on info regarding broken/damaged equipment at the exchange on my ADSL line, and I was even given the component name on that occasion so I could find out what it was that had broken. My most recent contacts with support have all been rather poor for information. For example I'll send an email with 5 or 6 questions and I'll get a generic answer regarding one of the questions with no attempt made to answer the others.

I only went with IDnet for FTTC as I decided that support prior to this was good. I'm hoping I'm not going to be proven wrong, but will happily sing their praises when they sort something for me.

[andrue]

No one tells me ANYTHING when a fault has been fixed so I've no idea what is being done or why.

Yeah that is annoying. I no longer have a customer facing job but back when I did I knew that regular updates and giving out information were a great way to keep customers happy. It's sad how many companies don't do that.

My most recent contacts with support have all been rather poor for information. For example I'll send an email with 5 or 6 questions and I'll get a generic answer regarding one of the questions with no attempt made to answer the others.

I only went with IDnet for FTTC as I decided that support prior to this was good. I'm hoping I'm not going to be proven wrong, but will happily sing their praises when they sort something for me.

I was moderately impressed with Simon at IDNet at the weekend. Out of the blue he sent me an email saying he was going on holiday but had briefed his staff about the upcoming 19th. Despite one or two heated emails it seems he is still tracking my problem. I haven't liked many of his explanations but it seems to show that he isn't fobbing me off. Of course what we both want is a resolution but it's worth bearing in mind if you ever lose faith with them.

[Niall]

Yeah, I work in a customer facing job and I know that people like to hear the truth even if it sucks, and admittance of fault even if it solves nothing. Always giving full explanations of what has happened and why at least gives you facts to note just incase there are problems in future. Getting a reply to your 6 question email saying "BT are coming on monday 8am-1pm" doesn't tell me anything. Also, I forgot to mention, I asked support to update the engineer with all info regarding the problems I've had. Engineer got here, and knew nothing about my problems and had also been given the wrong phone number as he said to me "your wife says the line is fine now". I have no wife and there was no one in the house other than me, so that was a good start.

[mervl]

I'm afraid that as with everything else in life, I find that you have to use self-help. For FTTC I'm afraid I think that means unlocking the modem if you can - it depends on the type though, and getting and monitoring the stats - which I don't believe IDNet have acccess to, and which BTOR engineers don't have on a continuing basis. Read up all you can on it first, I think Andrue has done it, and Bald Eagle sometimes posts here too? But like everything else worthwhile it is not completely risk-free. You can argue they "ought to" have the stats until you're blue in the face, it won't make any difference - broadband is a mass market product produced to the lowest common denominator (and using a "quality" ISP makes no difference - OR get the same payment and you get the same service from them as from any "cheap as chips" provider - that's the rules set by Ofcom), so your best chance is to confront them with the best information you can get - it's worked for others, but it takes patience and time to get the full picture (not just a snapshot), and there's no guarantee; but I find it beats suffering. I've learnt a lot though Kitz' forum. Of course that won't help for issues on the BTw or IDNet's network, but it looks as though your problems are between the cab and the CPE, not least because they appear to have "carried over" from ADSL to VDSL. Do your neighbours suffer too?

I did it all the wrong way, by paying for an expensive modem/router substitute, but it's a decision I've never regretted not least because of the ability to continuously monitor my line if I'm so inclined, and the peace of mind because I have a much clearer idea of what's going on, is invaluable.

[mervl]

I discovered at the weekend that my tried and trusted ad-blocker is responsible for the naff upload speeds reported by the TBB tester and is also the cause of the poor results from speedtest.net. I've used that application for several years now and would never have guessed that it could impact the upload (not the download  ) like that.

Genius! Explains the great mystery why JDast's auto testing (with file uploads) is always twice faster measuring upload speeds than tests done through a browser. I use FF with Adblock add-on. As always I put it down to the performance of BT's poor local loop. They cop it for everything.

[andrue]

Genius! Explains the great mystery why JDast's auto testing (with file uploads) is always twice faster measuring upload speeds than tests done through a browser. I use FF with Adblock add-on. As always I put it down to the performance of BT's poor local loop. They cop it for everything.

I'm still not entirely sure what's going on but it's been discussed by the Admuncher team before apparently, as far back as 2005:

http://www.admuncher.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=680

But I'm still intrigued by this comment:

"Only the results of the test are affected.

Your actual upload speed isn't effected.".

Lol.

[Niall]

Well basically the outcome of this is that support aren't interested as the line is now 22mb. They claim to not have reset the line and BT the same, but it's clearly been reset before the visit. Now I'm left with no option but to give it a week or so to see what happens. Someone amusingly the engineer report states I told the engineer that the ISP reset the line when it was him that told me that and that BT wouldn't reset the line.

If it drops again I think I'll just cancel with IDnet and move somewhere else as the line isn't supplying what it's supposed to currently and if it drops below 15mb again that's under the threshold. One thing's for sure, whatever the outcome, as soon as I'm free of my contract I'm moving ISP. Support just don't give a sh*t anymore.

Meanwhile I'm off out so I'll power down the OR modem until I come back in a few hours.

[lozcart]

Niall I would advise that you sent up a Thinkbroadband Quality Monitor if you haven't already. With this you can post snap shots of it to the forum which might then give an indication of what is happening to your line and some of the experts here may be able to offer you further assistance.

[pctech]

I gather AAISP is somewhat renowned for giving BT grief over faults and getting them fixed so might be worth moving to them at least in the short term to get things fixed up.

[Glenn]

It's a 12 month contract for FTTC connections Mitch, so I think Niall only options would be if the contract was cancelled or he bought out the contract, I can't see either are likely.

[pctech]

He does seem to be having a hard time though

[Steve]

He does seem to be having a hard time though

With what appears the same issue carrying over from adsl to FTtC

[Glenn]

So the problem is either in the exchange, from the cabinet to the home (assuming the cabinets get a new exchange link when installed) or inside the home.

Niall has changed everything in his home, so that would leave the other 2, but the BT chaps can't see a problem as the line gets reset by someone unknown.

[pctech]

The DLM?

I think someone is being economical with the truth here and I don't mean Niall

[Glenn]

Have you tried the collective wisdom of TBB, Niall?