Random disconnections from the internet

[RandomGeeza]

When your connection drops out, do you get the red light on the router?  Only, I didn't - the router seemed to think everything was OK, even though it had lost the connection, hence, in my case, I'm suspecting a router fault.

When it was throwing its dummy out of the pram the other night, the lights for DSL were flashing green, on and off, and the Internet light was red...

With regards to flashing the firmware. I have tried that, even put on the US NA version, as a stab in the dark, to see if that would improve things, but again, same situation, so flashed the unit back to the UK version. From what i can tell the US vs UK firmware differentiates by the number of channels the router uses to broadcast on... I tend to stick to channel 13 as it is never used by my neighbours and has, in the past, always been solid

Have just checked the stats now... uptime of 23 hours plus... almost a first...

But, this is what it does... I bet I get a few days stable and then, all hell will break loose again...?

[Steve]

Hopefully it was the CAT5 lead.

[RandomGeeza]

Hopefully it was the CAT5 lead.

Agreed, although, I have a sneaky suspicion the drops will start again tomorrow (Monday)... Which falls back on my earlier observation about it always happening on weekdays... Time will tell.

[RandomGeeza]

Spent yesterday, rewiring the whole room, trying to get some distance between all the electrical items. I.e. Cordless Phone, wifi-printer. Also put down new surge protector extensions. Now, it's a waiting game...

[Clive]

Good luck RG, we are all anxious to learn the what might be causing your problem. 

[RandomGeeza]

Likewise.

And, as per, Friday and here we go again:

[DSL: Up] Friday, April 12,2013 16:26:09
[DHCP IP: (XXX.XXX.X.X)] to MAC address XX.XX.XX.XX.XX.XX, Friday, April 12,2013 16:26:06
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:25:46
[DHCP IP: (XXX.XXX.X.X)] to MAC address XX.XX.XX.XX.XX.XX, Friday, April 12,2013 16:25:44
[DSL: Down] Friday, April 12,2013 16:25:23
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:25:15
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:25:12
[DSL: Up] Friday, April 12,2013 16:25:11
[UPnP set event:AddPortMapping] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:24:16
[UPnP set event:AddPortMapping] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:24:16
[DSL: Down] Friday, April 12,2013 16:22:49
[DSL: Up] Friday, April 12,2013 16:22:34
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:22:16
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:21:46
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:21:16
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:20:51
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:20:20
[DSL: Down] Friday, April 12,2013 16:19:48
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:19:47
[DSL: Up] Friday, April 12,2013 16:19:35
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:19:18
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:18:48
[DSL: Down] Friday, April 12,2013 16:18:46
[DSL: Up] Friday, April 12,2013 16:18:34
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:18:18
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:17:48
[DSL: Down] Friday, April 12,2013 16:17:45
[DSL: Up] Friday, April 12,2013 16:17:26
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:17:18
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:16:48
[DSL: Down] Friday, April 12,2013 16:16:37
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:16:18
[DSL: Up] Friday, April 12,2013 16:16:16
[DHCP IP: (XXX.XXX.X.X)] to MAC address XX.XX.XX.XX.XX.XX, Friday, April 12,2013 16:16:04
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:15:48
[DSL: Down] Friday, April 12,2013 16:15:30
[admin login] from source XXX.XXX.X.X, Friday, April 12,2013 16:15:15
[DSL: Up] Friday, April 12,2013 16:15:08
[Internet disconnected] Friday, April 12,2013 16:14:27
[DSL: Down] Friday, April 12,2013 16:14:22

I had 76+ hours uptime. Not bad going in comparison to the last few weeks.

Seems particularly strange that yet again, it's Friday and I see a load of drops in a 15 minute time frame, exactly like last Friday. The only difference being the time it has happened.

And, as per, iDNet are not being particularly helpful. Referring back to the BT Engineer, which I simply will not agree to at this point. I cannot afford a £150 gamble.

Feels like the only thing to do, is to write to the MD and begin to look for a cheaper provider, because at least that way I can save money, whether the problem follows me or not.

You get what you pay for, except for when things go wrong with iDNet. For a premium service/price I am getting crapped on!

Really getting fed up of this now!!!! 

[miriam_idnet]

Hi RandomGeeza,

Sorry to hear of the intermittent connection problem you are experiencing. I have looked through the notes on our ticket and your posts here. 

As you know, all our tests were returning Fault Not Found (FNF) however we also passed the case over to BT for further investigation to see if their tests picked up anything different however, this was not the case, all tests FNF and they passed the case back as clear with only option to book an engineer should you wish it.

I appreciate the risk of a charge is not to be taken lightly and we normally work through standard tests with customers to rule out internal wiring, faceplate, hardware and local interference issues before passing a case for an engineer to significantly reduce the risk of the charge. I note you have carried out the following:

Tested 3 routers, 2 of which were new
Tried alternate firmware
Swapped filters, RJ11 and CAT-5
Connected the router to the test socket located behind the master socket faceplate
Turned off/unplugged all other devices namely NAS device, NetGear Powerline, Networked Digi TV box and cordless phone.
Relocated wiring to increase distance from other electronic devices
Replaced surge protector extension cables

The only other possible check you could do is to walk around your premises with a portable radio tuned to white noise on MW to see if it identifies any local interference. Beyond this, you really have exhausted every possible local check to get to the bottom of the issue locally.

I appreciate it may seem like we are simply pushing for an engineer and we do not care about your problem, I wholeheartedly assure you this is not the case. When all tests come back with no fault identified the only option we have is to suggest local checks as mentioned above and offer the engineer visit. If a customer chooses not to take the engineer appointment there is little further we can do.

Let me be clear also that the charges for engineer visits are raised by BT and are passed on to the customer at cost. We do not take any proceeds for engineer charges.

Should you choose to change your mind and wish to proceed with an engineer visit please do not hesitate to contact us, we will be happy to make the necessary arrangements for you.

Regards,

Miriam

Technical and Customer Services Manager
IDNet

[sobranie]

A friend had this seemingly unsurmountable problem.
It transpired that his neighbour had a fairly old plasma tv pushed up against the adjoining wall and when switched on it did a fairly good job of trashing my friend' router signal.
If your neighbours are not in during the weekend then 'way to go' as it were.

[Simon]

So, a solution to that might have been to move the router?

[sobranie]

So, a solution to that might have been to move the router?

To another room maybe!!
Here's just a few posts on the subject;
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/technical/4085314-plasma-tv-interfering-with-dsl-connection-please-help.html?fpart=all&vc=1

[Steve]

So, a solution to that might have been to move the router?

Although it's the phone line and it's extensions/leads that act as the aerial, hence the reason for locating the router as near to the Master socket as possible to reduce the length of any 'aerial leads'

@Sobraine- interesting thread, thanks!

[RandomGeeza]

Cheers all for the suggestions and to Miriam for the detailed response.

Due to the location of the Master socket, plus plugs, to move the router to another location would be difficult and would mean having to use extension plugs, and longer wires which, as mentioned above, could introduce other levels of interference.

I had a lengthy conversation with Simon @ iDNet, on Friday after the major dropout and Miriam has confirmed everything that was discussed, above in her post. As I understand it, the Fault Ticket will remain open for the foreseeable and the ball is back in my court.

I've had, thus far, 72 hours up time... I've changed the router back to my legacy NetGear DGN2000 and am, again, playing a waiting game. Whilst I source some batteries for the CD/Radio player and tune into 612 kHz, and go on a REIN hunt.

With regards to neighbours interference. Albeit a good suggestion, I doubt that it may be the cause. You see, the router is positioned on an inside wall, and not a neighbouring wall. And, I know that the neighbour was out whilst the Friday daytime drops happened. To add, the TV in my bedroom, was switched off, at the wall and not on standby.

I'll keep chugging along and seriously consider the visit. I am eager to find out the route cause. Obviously, to restore my service but to also put my mind to rest.

Cheers all, again. I'll keep you posted.

[RandomGeeza]

Checked stats this morning and have noticed an increase in Attenuation... from 36.5 to 40...?

I always thought that this figure was indicative of the distance of the line... Why will that have increased?

Odd?

ADSL Link   Downstream   Upstream
Connection Speed   10011 kbps   1103 kbps
Line Attenuation   40.0 db   20.4 db
Noise Margin   5.6 db   5.1 db

EDIT: Add info.

[Steve]

Has any work been done on the line or at the exchange? You do see differences reported by different routers but for some reason your line now appears longer than it was, attenuation will also increase as the physical line quality reduces. The other common reason is moving from adslmax to adsl2+

[RandomGeeza]

Not that I am aware... There have been no reports of work. Both online and via iDNet's communications?

I have always been on ADSL2+ so that would not have impacted the attenuation?

I am wondering if BT have been messing about, but not reporting it, for whatever reasons they seem fit to hide behind. It ties in with the drops and now the increased line length.

Have had a pretty stable connection thus far... So, for now, I'm going to continue watching and waiting. That's about all I can do.

EDIT: Typos

[andrue]

Checked stats this morning and have noticed an increase in Attenuation... from 36.5 to 40...?

I always thought that this figure was indicative of the distance of the line... Why will that have increased?

Depends how it's calculated I suppose. Attenuation varies with frequency so a single figure has to be some kind of average. If it's an average across all the tones in use then a change of sync would change the attenuation.

[RandomGeeza]

Had another discon, this morning, about 2am-ish... On the legacy router... Confirming that this is happening across all of the routers I have tested so far. Again, I was using the Test socket, no telephone plugged in, no electronic devices nearby or on adjoining walls were turned on or on standby. In fact, I was asleep and the whole house turned off.

[miriam_idnet]

Hi RandomGeeza,

We are ready to arrange the appointment for you should you decide to go ahead, just drop a call/email to the Support Team and we will take care of it for you.

Regards,

Miriam
IDNet Support

[RandomGeeza]

Hi,

I am going to leave the appointment for now... thanks for following up.

The reason for this is: Although I have been adamant that my gear is fine. Having had the legacy router in for the last few weeks, things have stabilised somewhat. And this is confirmed with the 96 hours continuous uptime I have experienced, the most so far, this side of Feb. The few discons you may have noticed on your records, at the start of this week, were user instigated, I was trying to get the best Line Sync. So, disregarding them, the last issue I had was on the 19th, as detailed on here.

I am slowly coming to think that, maybe, the DGN2200 series of routers has been to blame.

Port   Status   TxPkts   RxPkts   Collisions   Tx B/s   Rx B/s   Up Time
WAN   PPPoA   15112507   22805807   0   11694   778   96:57:31
LAN   10M/100M   32627843   16618961   0   2078   12099   96:58:36
WLAN   11M/54M/130M   38232820   47579062   0   1459   1427   96:58:13

ADSL Link   Downstream   Upstream
Connection Speed   10023 kbps   1043 kbps
Line Attenuation   40.5 db   20.5 db
Noise Margin   4.1 db   7.3 db

I have noticed a further increase in my Attenuation, up .5 to 40.5, whereas it was always 36.5, increasing to 40 a week or so ago and now another small increase, which seems odd?

So, as a final test, I am going to try out the DGN2200 for a few days, to see if I can replicate the past few months problems. The results should speak for themselves and hopefully allow me to conclude why this has been happening...?

IGWS, I'll continue to keep this thread updated with the results. And thanks again for monitoring and following up.

[Glenn]

When I had my ADSL line, the attenuation would change throughout the year between 56/57 - 60/61 depending on weather conditions.

[Steve]

It should in theory rise in warmer weather as the resistance increases.

[andrue]

It should in theory rise in warmer weather as the resistance increases.

Although summer means less electrical interference as well. I used to be unsure of this but with my last connection (BE ADSL) I found that I could run my line at 3db throughout summer and only had to bump it up to 6db over winter. It'll be interesting to see how FTTC responds. My line has lost about 10% of its speed since installation a year ago so I'm wondering if it'll recover over the next few months.

[Steve]

So even with a higher attenuation in summer you maybe able to gain a higher sync if you can run at a lower margin.

[RandomGeeza]

Well, well.... I think we had one yesterday. Never thought I would be sooo pleased to see this happen. LOL.

The overall uptime of the unit was 20 hours, the connection was 7 hours short at 13. However, when checking the logs, they had been wiped just short of 12 hours in the past, stopping me from checking for sure. It does seem to be pointing at the DGN2200v3...

Am in the process of raising a ticket with NetGear. Have reset the unit again, to try and capture this on a log to be sure.

FYI: Attenuation has dropped again to 37, so that does appear to be unit specific and, as someone mentioned earlier, an average of conditions.

Out of curiosity, can anyone recommend a decent modem router compatible with iDNet/BT line... ? Ultimately, I foresee the NetGear going back to the vendors (again)...

EDIT: Question added

[andrue]

Technicolor aka Thompson modem/routers are reckoned to be amongst the best for handling poor connections. Also one of the NetGears was a favourite amongst BEers for the same reason but it had to be the right version. One downside of Technicolor is the UI which looks like something Fisher Price came up with (but is perfectly functional and the CLI (Command Line Interface) is very capable if you can understand it).

Ah, here we are:

http://beusergroup.co.uk/technotes/index.php?title=Routers_Netgear

"DG834/DG834G (v4 recommended as it's the only version which uses a Broadcom chipset)"