FTTC frustration

JD_LincsUK · Jul 09, 2013, 12:16:20

I live in a village on the edge of Boston, Lincs. We just found out a couple of weeks ago that the exchange has been fibre enabled and that, supposedly, orders will be accpeted by the end of the year.

The problem is, as those who have had a look around the net will know, that not all cabinets will have FTTC installed, and finding out if your cabinet will be upgraded is nigh on impossible.

I have a relative who works for Openreach (he actually does tasking to engineers) and even he couldn't find out if my cabinet would be enabled or not - and he said regardless of this, it would depend on how much interest there was from potential customers. In his words - it could be years before my street cabinet is FTTC enabled.

Problem there is that no-one I have spoken to had any idea that FTTC was being rolled out here and were all gobsmacked to hear that the exchange is already enabled. So how are people expected to express interest in it, when they don't even know it is coming? Secondly, who do I express that interest to? When I spoke to Simon at IDNet, he said to register my interest on the Superfast broadband Openreach "When and where" site. Yet on that site, it says if your exchange is on the list, to register your interest with your ISP. Here we go again...

Now I've started to get that sinking feeling. The cabinet in the next street up got a 'buddy' about a month ago - yup, it's FTTC friend. Ours didn't. Now, it is possible that we could get connected to the FTTC cabinet in the next street - it's only about 150m away - but I very much doubt it. Of course, BT being the fine example of communication that they aren't, don't tell us which streets will get the cabinet and which won't.

I was at first very excited about this, having been stuck in the mire of rural crapspeed connections since day 1 - struggling for 0.5 meg for a couple of years until BT finally got off their bums and discovered I was connected to a non-broadband capable line! Then the 'huge' update to 21CN brought me to 3MB/s - when it doesn't get turned down to 2meg (usually at Christams/New Year time) though my neighbour, also on IDNet 21CN gets just 0.7MB/s. So getting FTTC would be a major boost - even if I get 25% of the 'headline' speed, it would be great. I'm disabled and stuck at home 95% of the week - the internet is my social life.

The cabinet at the top of our street (Boston 57) has been bashed over a couple of times in the last few years. As I have walked past it and seen it laying on the floor, I have shaken my head and thought "mindless vandals!" In future if I see it on its side I will probably be thinking "ah, another satisfied customer".

brian_idnet · Jul 09, 2013, 13:41:21

Hi,

Once the exchange is enabled then Openreach will start enabling more street cabinets based on population density, likely demand, the layout of our existing network, the cost of deployment and the potential return on their investment. Once a decision is made, dates are then set against cabinets likely to be enabled usually one a quarterly basis March, June, September or December, Openreach then aim to have the cab enabled by this date but on some occasions the date is pushed back if they run into problems with the roll out. We can check if you cab has had a date set by Openreach if you email your broadband telephone number into us at support@idnet.com

Regards,

Brian
IDNet

JD_LincsUK · Jul 09, 2013, 14:04:11

Thanks Brian, I'll do that.

I didn't want to pester support any more, as I've already called them 3 times in the last 4 weeks - but I will send a mail.

My main concern is that the cabinet will not be FTTC enabled at all - I've read of a lot of cases of this happening, though there is no cable service in the town to get in the way.

mervl · Jul 09, 2013, 14:59:01

I'm in a similar sort of location to you, and obtained an FTTC service soon after the exchange (on the edge of the nearby urban area) was enabled. At that time OR seemed to enable cabs (subject to the important proviso that the engineering was practicable, and the difficulties seem to be mainly with ducting and the necessary electricity supplies -so those difficulties are often within urban areas where space is at a premium, and in conservation areas where it can all be delayed by planning bureaucracy) having regard to the uplift in speeds which was projected. So our situation was like you poor ADSL due to distance from the exchange, but much nearer to the cab so an uplift for my locality of 8x was projected we got the service, and the projected speeds were easily exceeded. (Most people, like more than 80% after two years, still decided they didn't want to upgrade though!). BT still enabled cabs throughout the whole village.

The service became available to order in just under 4 months from when the cab first appeared - easily recognised as a larger structure close to the existing cab. The difficult cases are those connected not to a cab but directly to the exchange who can't currently get FTTC due to the technology.

I know it's hard not to panic, but usually it's not justified. Whatever the forums say, Openreach (and BT) aren't a bunch of shysters, but actually very good at what they do with the available tech and resources. A lot of complaints are about the past (or from people who think it should be fibre from the cab to their premises rather than using the old tech telephone line - which is all that we actually pay for), which should always be remembered. The majority of happy people don't have the time or the inclination to make a lot of noise, as they've better things to do. On my connection, even though the underground link from the cab is ropey, it's still the most reliable part of the network, better than the wholesale link back from the exchange and IDNet's bit (both of which are better than 99% uptime anyway).

JD_LincsUK · Jul 09, 2013, 16:17:29

Thanks for your reply and words of encouragement, Merv. I don't have an issue with BT per se - just with the level of information that they provide - not very much, from my experience. I also read an article in PCPro - admittedly a year or two ago - where they found exactly the same problem. I think if they were more forthcoming with information, people in general would have a much higher opinion of them.

Isn't that the case with so many organisations, though?

Anyway, I got a very speedy turn around on my email to support, but they don't have any information from BT (see what I mean?) so can't help me. I just don't want to be disappointed - mind you I think my brother (the openreach employee I mentioned) would have told me if he knew there were issues with it. He doesn't cover this area, though.

Your comments on the speed are very encouraging. The FTTC cabinet they put in on the parallel street is, as mentioned, about 150m away - but the current adsl cabinet on my street is only about 60m away - so if they put a cabinet next to that, I'll be laughing. There are well over 100 residences on the street - and it also has an attached crescent of about 60 houses - so plenty of potential. Problem is, a lot of those are OAPs, though there are several businesses, too.

mervl · Jul 09, 2013, 17:21:56

There might be a bit of engineering difficulty accounting for the delay, is there room for another cab on the verge without affecting traffic sight lines, for instance, or access to a convenient electricity supply? The consents you need can be a bureaucratic nightmare, and usually no-one co-ordinates it so everyone (highway authority, electricity co, for instance) takes their own leisurely pace, though Norfolk are trying a co-ordinated approach, apparently. Cabs here did appear the opposite side of the road, for instance in a couple of cases. I think cabs on the commercial roll-out have to be close by, because they have to connect to the voice phone line which runs to the original cab, and the data connection is then bridged to the new cab.

BT's a commercial company, and they're going to cherry pick the low hanging fruit to do the fastest rollout and use resources efficiently. Things were no different in the past, though. When was any utility forthcoming with information - it's a hostage to fortune. I suspect as everywhere different teams do different aspects of the job, and there's not much communication between them. Ofcom have made this law between OpenReach and the rest of BT, and I'm not sure but think the fibre cabs might be Wholesale's responsibility (or that of a different division within OpenReach, perhaps). We just have higher expectations and less patience than our forebears (encouraged by that internet that makes us think we know more). At 60m from the cab you should be one of the fastest when the service arrives. I'm envious.

JD_LincsUK · Jul 09, 2013, 19:30:08

I can't see there being any issue with placing another cabinet next to the current one - it's on a 10x10x10m triangular patch of grass, just off a large grassed area. It wouldn't obstruct anything at all, at least not above ground.

I've just been to my GP and he said his information is that we will be connected by the end of next year (isn't that when the rollout stage is supposed to be done anyway?) but BT stated on 26th June that this area should be connected by the end of this year. Mind you - 21CN got put back a couple of times, so it wouldn't surprise me. next year is still okay, though - it's in the foreseeable future and is sooner than I was expecting before the BT announcement.

My main issue is that they have claimed a rather large amount of cash from the government, supposedly to ensure the rollout gets to rural areas, so even if they won't make a packet out of my area (which I don't believe would be the case), the commercial viability number is a little worn. This very issue was covered on the BBC news a couple of days ago.

Whatever, as long as it is coming, and not too far in the future, that's okay.

Gary · Jul 09, 2013, 22:34:40

In our village they have cheery picked cabs, the one I am on cab 5 (bladdy thing) will get FTTC, the one to my left and about the same distance wont, cab 2 does not have many connections and th houses on the main road to the village are connected straight to the exchange so they wont get FTTC either. BT choose the areas with the biggest £ signs it seems. If all goes well I should be able to order on the 1st of September and hopefully my line madness will end too then

JD_LincsUK · Jul 10, 2013, 08:36:27

Hmmm, sounds about right - I just realised that the website at Openreach 'superfast broadband' is telling porkies.

It shows Boston exchange's status as "TO" which means Taking Orders and is the final stage of the installation of the service, but this is not true. It really does seem like they are pulling the wool in some respects and I can understand why the BBC was bringing attention to concerns that they are pulling a fast one with the government subsidies they have been getting. To anyone who just looks at their website for the info, it looks like all is done and dusted here - but that just is not the case. The GP I mentioned has many dealings with the council here and if he says it won't be here until next year, then I have no reason to doubt that is the case.
Let's face it - even my brother couldn't get a straight answer from his colleagues here, so it's situation normal. BT have a very bad rep here in Boston (i.e. the individual BT section here - not BT as a whole), though I have not experienced it myself as I haven't had much to do with them personally - when I have it's been a mixed bag.

To say that Openreach and BT are kept as two separate and independent businesses is rather narrow minded - especially in this day and age - but the opposite has been confirmed to me by members of both companies, who confirm that Openreach will always conduct their business in a manner that is first and foremost advantageous to BT as a company. Unfortunately the public are always taken for fools by all such organisations, and as no-one with any clout ever makes an issue of it, it will continue to be the case (and as they are left to carry on as they like, it is probably true).

I've spent the large part of my life abroad and I ask myself time and again why I ever thought it would be a good idea to come back. Now I'm stuck here. Woe is me...

jm_paulin · Jul 12, 2013, 10:56:59

One way to figure out if your cabinet will be enabled is to look for the planning permissions. Sometime it gets delays because of argument with the council about where the cabinet will go. Mine got delayed by about 3 month because of that... Once the planning is approved, then it is all up to OR's good will.

Good Luck

JD_LincsUK · Aug 14, 2013, 18:30:06

Well, it's not looking good. I can't find anything that says we'll be getting an FTTC enabled cabinet. Not only that, I went out on a recce and found that every street in the direction of town coming off the main drag (we are the last street coming off it before the 'border') has an FTTC cab ready to go. We haven't. Sort of telling, isn't it?

I'm going to pester my brother a bit more when he next calls - see if I can get him to call the guys here and get more info. If they do supply all the other roads and not this one, I am going to have a major sense of humour failure. Mostly because I hate this dump in the first place! Buying a house here was the single biggest mistake of my life and now I'm stuck here. Woe is me!

JD_LincsUK · Aug 18, 2013, 22:53:31

Good news. I bumped into a couple of OR guys connecting up a new property down the street and they told me that, not only will my street definitely be getting FTTC (though it may take a while yet - which I don't mind) but that I should expect close to 75MB at my locstat!

Now that is reassuring.

JD_LincsUK · Dec 19, 2013, 19:30:19

I was getting very depressed again, when I discovered that the street parallel to ours is going active in January, but still no sign of anything here and BT still clammed shut about it. The map below shows the situation - it seems incomprenhensible why they have gone right up to the second last street before the town border, then left out the last street (which I live on). The yellow dots are the cabinets.

Anyway, by pure chance and dogged determination, I stumbled across the website representing the organisation responsible for the rollout in the area - "OnLincolnshire". On entering my postcode, I was told that there is no inofrmation currently available, but I would get to know if I will be able to use FTTC sometime between October 2014 and April 2015! That's just when I get to know, not when it will go live.
They also say that only 65% of the residences in my postcode area will actually get FTTC - the rest will remain on what they have now (in my case - officially 2MB/s, actually just under 3MB/s).

There are a series of maps, showing how the rollout will pan out around the county. It makes no sense, how it looks, but it must be to do with the way the wiring is installed, I guess.

It's very hard to tell from these maps, but it would seem that my street is right on the border between two of the phases.

Whilst this is some sort of 'news', it still leaves me 90% in the dark, and it seems a really - insert derogatory term for silly here - way of doing things. It seems to me that, as is mostly the case with these big companies these days - especially the monopolies - that keeping your customers informed is the lowest possible priority for these people.

The biscuit was when Prepar3D was recently launched and I had to leave my PC on all night to download it, whilst some of my internet friends in other counties had it in just 20 minutes.

I give up.

Steve · Dec 19, 2013, 19:52:40

That's a great shame my commiserations!

kinmel · Dec 20, 2013, 06:39:20

You can identify your cabinet using this BT link - http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/pls/adsl/ADSLChecker.AddressOutput - the information is above the table of speeds.

As you say it is illogical, my side of our road is connected to Cab 26, almost 1km away and we get 24Mb, the other side of the road is connected to Cab 28 50 metres away and get the full 78Mb. Of course it is not possible to re-route us to Cab 28 because the circuit plans would have to be updated and there is no way to do that apparently.

Gary · Dec 20, 2013, 07:41:35

Quote from: kinmel on Dec 20, 2013, 06:39:20

Of course it is not possible to re-route us to Cab 28 because the circuit plans would have to be updated and there is no way to do that apparently.

If you are fed via a pole it is possible as long as there is a pole with enough room on it near you, also with enough height as well. If its underground they would have to dig the road up to do it, and that just not going to happen. I have seen the plans for where I live, there is a cab thats closer but my underground cable runs no way near it in fact the opposite way, and BT will not move you to a new overhead just you so you can get more speed. I can see why as well 24Mbps is still fast. Now if you had a major underground fault they may move you if an overhead that is close but that needs permission from way up high and needs to fit the above criteria for height and capacity etc some poles just wont have any spares on them.

JD_LincsUK · Feb 06, 2014, 21:02:14

Good news!

The cabinet got replaced yesterday by an FTTC one. The old cabinet was very small and as I mentioned, it kept getting knocked over. First they replaced it with an FTTC-style brick, then yesterday they replaced that with a full-sized FTTC cab, which is more than twice the size of the old cab, so I guess they are doing it all within the one cabinet, instead of having two. And it's only about 80m away - if that (line length).

The dates have moved forward, too - so we should be ready to go sometime between July and December this year. I already have a fibre capable router/modem, but I understand BT has to come and put in a new plate and modem. Oh well, don't know how long I'd need to wait for that - it all just can't come quick enough. I have been having to leave my PC on all night every night recently, after a hard drive went belly up and I have to re-download all my Steam stuff and other things that have no back-up (or the back up disc went u/s or they have a new version - always some reason I have to download the damn things yet again!).
I don't like leaving it on overnight - it uses quite a bit of electricity. The last two months I have ended up paying extra on my £38 bill, due to going over my peak limit of 50GB. Programs are just so big these days. Even just Windows needs to download about 1.5GB of updates when it gets reinstalled. I have only ever got close to the 150GB off-peak limit twice, though.

So, with that and the fact that my £38 monthly IDNet bill would rise to a whopping £67 for the same package on fibre, I am sadly going to have to switch ISP to one that I can afford (and has no limits). Zen is looking favourite. I would prefer to stay with IDNet, but on a paltry war pension as sole income, I just can't afford it.

So good news and bad, then. Still - I can't even begin to imagine what 76MB/s is like

- being on 3MB/s at the moment and it being the fastest I've ever had.

Den · Feb 06, 2014, 21:50:50

I'm loth to admit it but the cost was the reason I left Idnet and moved to Infinity 1 with BT. I have now moved my contract to unlimited up and download as I'm watching some of the football matches on BT Sport and we can now have BBC iPlayer on the smart TV in my sitting room (Tempted in the Lounge). I was sad to leave Idnet but am very happy with BT so far. Infinity 1 is a 38Mb/s max and I get 37.5Mb/s and that is like flying.

Gary · Feb 07, 2014, 00:12:20

Quote from: Den on Feb 06, 2014, 21:50:50
I'm loth to admit it but the cost was the reason I left Idnet and moved to Infinity 1 with BT. I have now moved my contract to unlimited up and download as I'm watching some of the football matches on BT Sport and we can now have BBC iPlayer on the smart TV in my sitting room (Tempted in the Lounge). I was sad to leave Idnet but am very happy with BT so far. Infinity 1 is a 38Mb/s max and I get 37.5Mb/s and that is like flying.

Personally Zen which is unlimited but has decent UK call centres beats BT hands down unless you like sport, then BT is fine, I just cannot stand the out sourced call centres.

Technical Ben · Feb 07, 2014, 08:54:31

Your doing well. Out of the blue we are getting FTTC like, well, next month. I think they started in Jan. From dinosaur to race car in their work speed.

However, I have no idea if I even have a cabinet, being so close to the exchange. I hope I'm not on a direct link, as that tends to make things problematic?

PS, yes, I'd also be able to get BT infinity 2 (100GB) for the price of IDNet ASDL 2 (100GB)

Gary · Feb 07, 2014, 10:01:17

Quote from: Technical Ben on Feb 07, 2014, 08:54:31

PS, yes, I'd also be able to get BT infinity 2 (100GB) for the price of IDNet ASDL 2 (100GB)

Zen do Truly unlimited with no traffic management for £30 plus line rental. I'd gop for that over BT as I dont need sports, I have had minor neverous breadowns talking to CS in India on my mums BT Infinity, also they say they dont shape traffic now but her 40/10 is very slow sometimes, DNS lookups are not as fast as IDNets and they dont have such good peering points, also i'd like a Static IP which comes with the price with Zen. Cost and usage is paramount with fibre for myself as my usage has changed, maybe beyond IDNets walls in all honesty. PS4 Games are much bigger, so are patches, and with Sky on demand I could download so much TV that I want to catch up on (Season 3 Madmen up to present in HD for instance) with no worries about hitting my download limit, and also no worries about traffic shaping and slowdowns that some ISP's use, like plusnet.

JD_LincsUK · Feb 07, 2014, 10:02:00

Ooh, that might mean getting it last, Ben. I spent a lot of time reading sites such as Sam Knows, Think Broadband, which, 'geek' sites etc yesterday, and it seems that the fibre to the exchange lines are normally the last to go in. You'd think it would be the opposite, but I think it has to do with extra work or pipes being laid or similar.

As for BT Infinity, I won't change to them. I don't watch footy, but I was very sad to lose MotoGP to BT. That's not enough to make me change to them, though - and I worked out the cost and it turns out not so much cheaper than IDNet, once the introductory offer expires. Then there are the other things already mentioned (call centres etc). No - I bought myself a cheap satellite kit from Maplin and pointed it at Astra 1. Now I get Swiss RTL for Formula 1 and AustriaSAT for live MotoGP (I speak Deutsch) so I'm laughing, really.

Zen would be £45.44 in total, for that £30 package Gary mentions plus phone included.

PS - I forgot, our new HD Smart TV takes up quite a bit of bandwidth over a month, too.

Gary · Feb 07, 2014, 10:32:17

Quote from: JD_LincsUK on Feb 07, 2014, 10:02:00
Zen would be £45.44 in total, for that £30 package Gary mentions plus phone included.

Right now I'm paying £17 a month with IDNet for anytime calls then £35 for 100GB on FTTC So thats £52 a month. I could use my mobile more but its not always practical as some friends don't have great signals at their homes.

BT Charge £15.99 + £7 on top with a 15p set up cost per call for anytime calls which is damn expensive. If I left I would leave my phone line with IDNet.

The equivalent at Zen is 3000 anytime minutes which is £15.44 +£6.61. Fibre at Zen without phone is £30 + £5.40 inc VAT without the phone line. So all in all it would be about the same price as I pay now, but its the unlimited usage that's tempting. I could catch up on all the episodes of Mad Men for instance from seaon 3 without worrying about hitting my limit, let alone PS4 patches and game downloads and online gaming. Then there's my iPhone, iPad, iMac and Smart TV and Smart blu ray player on top of that plus my wifes laptop and iPhone. IDNet just cant compete, and that's not their fault, its my usage that's changing. Mind you I would hope they can better £35 for 100Gb this year. Time will tell.

Steve · Feb 07, 2014, 10:36:31

I think with BT it makes sense to pay the line rental up front as with IDNet you save a decent amount of money!

Gary · Feb 07, 2014, 10:43:52

Quote from: Steve on Feb 07, 2014, 10:36:31
I think with BT it makes sense to pay the line rental up front as with IDNet you save a decent amount of money!

On one wage, as I can't work any ore with my disability that's not a financial option really. I could get for £21 unlimited minutes unlimited texts and 1GB data +4G (not that O2 have 4G here) for a sim only 12 month contract, but I have a phobia about long contracts so I stick with the 30 day roiling contract. Whats BT's cost over 18Mths payed up in one go?