FTTC problem?

[Inkblot]

I'm having FTTC problems at the moment and am wondering if anybody else is suffering?

On Monday I rang IDNet and asked to switch to a bigger package, this was agreed and on Monday evening when I checked my account it appeared that it had been completed - my 'allowed bandwidth' was that of the new package. All good. Tuesday morning I am up and as usual, power up the PC to check the news before I go to work - no Internet. Go onto my router which confirms the connection is down. Pick my phone up just as a message comes through from IDNet to say the order has been completed so reply saying thanking them but saying that I now have no Internet. Email exchange wih support tells me that BT can see a fault on the line and need to come out, I'm offered a range of AM and PM appointments. As I live on the Internet I arrange to take the Wednesday 1pm to 6pm slot appointment and book 1/2 day leave from work - never a popular move at short notice but had to be done. I get home today at about 12:45, in plenty of time for the engineer to call. By 17:45 there is still no sign of them, I'm frustrated and I've wasted 1/2 day leave as I would have been home by that time anyway. I call support who explain that perhaps he is running late and that there is nothing on the call to say that there was a problem and they would therefore expect them to call by 6pm. I tell support that I will call them back at 18:15 if nobody has turned up which sure enough is what happens. Support promise me a callback by 18:30 and get on the phone to BT. Sure enough, I had my call back at 18:30 and was told that this is a major outage affecting a number of customers and it will be reviewed on Friday. An engineer was never going to call as the issue is not with my connection alone but is a break in the fibre connections affecting a number of people. In other words I've taken 1/2 day leave to sit at home and weait for an engineer who was never going to come anyway 

No blame to IDNet...well maybe a little, if it's a major fault then surely they should have known about it although there is nothing on the BT website about it. Overall, the service from IDNet is, and always has been, good although it was frustrating not being able to call them at 6am Tuesday when I noticed the problem.

Looks like I will be without broadband for at least another day, possibly more but once the service is restored I will be making a complain to BT but is anybody else suffering? with similar problems? I'm in Southend, Essex but it could be that the issue is affecting others as well. In the meantime I've tethered my phone to get some sort of Internet access, just hope I don't exceed my data allowance on that as that would start to incur costs which would just add to my frustration.

[Simon]

Sorry to hear that, Inky.  My guess is the usual lack of communication from BT is the root cause of the failure to notify you that the call out wasn't going to happen, but I'd be just as frustrated.   

[Steve]

Sadly with BT/OpenReach it doesn't appear that the right hand knows what the left hand is doing sometimes, and of course who suffers you the customer.

[Gary]

When IDNet talk to openreach most of the time they have to deal with call centres abroad, and mistakes may get can made. The Engineer may never have been given your job that morning it seems, and with FTTC idnet have even less they can do than with adsl 1 and adsl 2+ Things go wrong with calls from boiler engineers etc, but because we use the net so much it really hammers home how much its becaome part of our utilities I guess. Hopefully it will be sorted soon.

[MisterW]

Sadly with BT/OpenReach it doesn't appear that the right hand knows what the left hand is doing sometimes

I'm not even sure that the right hand knows where the left hand IS never mind what it's doing!

[zappaDPJ]

In my experience, and I've had quite a lot unfortunately, OpenReach engineers very rarely keep to appointments and if they do they don't always knock on your door. I don't stay in for them any more, faults eventually get fixed regardless.

[Inkblot]

Thanks for all of the replies, today is the day that BT will be 'reviewing' the problem which I hope translates into 'fixing' the problem

A couple of people at work have suggested that I claim compensation from BT for not turning up for an appointment, is that possible? I've not heard of it but one of the people at work insists that their neighbour did it although that could of course be hogwash. The line died at 01:43 on Tuesday so even if they fix it today it's still over 3 days with no broadband. Fortunately I am no longer self-employed and relying on it to work but I do rely on it for other things although thankfully none of them critical.

[Inkblot]

7:30 on Friday evening and I still have no broadband. According to support BT are working on it and as it is affecting a number of lines it is being treated as major incident and therefore work may carry on over the weekend. I'm becoming a cynic as I get older but to me that suggests that there is also a chance that work may not carry on over the weekend 

I've reached the point where I no longer want to have a BT line - this supposedly priority fault has so far taken over 3 days to fix and in this day and age that's just not good enough. We are paying for an Internet service that we cannot use and for streaming music and film services that we cannot use. None of this is IDNet's fault but sadly I feel that this will result in me leaving IDNet which is a shame as I've been here for a few years now - 2.5 on FTTC and probably 2 or 3 before that on ADSL. IDNet are one of the best ISPs I have ever used but unfortunately they are reliant on BT and when BT perform badly it reflects on IDNet. Maybe the time has come for me to try one of the mainstream providers - Sky or Virgin - as I want to stay on fibre but avoid BT which limits my options. Ideally I'll have my service restored at some point this evening and then I'll calm down over the weekend but right now I'm going to have a look at the options available on Virgin and Sky and come Monday am likely to be making a call to IDNet to cancel my broadband/phone.

[Steve]

Sky for FTTC I don't think would be any better than BT the initial infrastructure is the same/shared. I wonder if some cable has 'disappeared'

[Inkblot]

If I was on ADSL or happy with BT's FTTC service it would by IDNet without a shadow of a doubt but it looks like BT resell their FTTC connections whilst Sky/Virgin don't - at least not at the consumer level. That means that pretty much any FTTC connection will be through one of those 3 although I've not looked to see if others have entered the marketplace. Virgin offer a phone/fibre package at pretty much the same price I have been paying IDNet that has advantages/disadvantages compared to IDNet - it's theoretically faster (maybe not in practice) and unlimited but any problems are dealt with by an offshore call centre and it has some 'traffic management' although these days we are not heavy users - son on Netflix, me on Google all access music and LOTRO totalling maybe 60-65gb a month so hopefully traffic management wouldn't be an issue. Sky doesn't appeal at all so if I do jump ship it is likely to be towards Virgin. At the moment I've calmed a little and am unlikely to do anything before Monday so let's hope the connection comes back before then!

[Gary]

In my experience, and I've had quite a lot unfortunately, OpenReach engineers very rarely keep to appointments and if they do they don't always knock on your door. I don't stay in for them any more, faults eventually get fixed regardless.

I would not agree Zap, all mine turned up, and knowing an engineer as a friend I get to hear the other side of the story, they turn up to all call outs issued in the morning unless there is a major fault they are pulled onto, if they miss them they get pulled up, if they do a job and a call back on the fault comes in within a month they get pulled into the manager, so I would say its more to do with communication from BTw than the openreach engineers not bothering since they could lose their jobs if it was to bad/get overtime bans etc if they get to many issues coming back. They are held very accountable. 

People also seem to think faults are easy to mend, if its a stretch of say brittle aluminium cable, roads have to be dug up, new connections made maybe, then you have issues with reflection from copper to old aluminium which can effect the line as well, if it an exchange fault it could take longer. Its just not as simple as plugging in an extension lead...

[Inkblot]

Well we've reached Sunday and still no fix - now it's not just my impatience it's the wife as well and she is only a light user but using 3g just doesn't work well enough.

Some quotes from the support emails - please delete if not allowed but I'm not mentioning names:

The line tests from BTs end show a fault and BT want to send an engineer to investigate. They have provided the times below when they can send someone to you. AM slots are between 8am and 1pm and the PM slots are from 1pm to 6pm.
and from another email
The visit will be FOC as the appointment was recommended by BT as they were able to detect an issue on their line tests.

So from this BT can see a fault and want to investigate. As mentioned in the initial post they never showed.

We are currently chasing BT for an update regarding the outage as these are beyond any sort of SLA due to the nature of the issue (affecting multiple lines).

Now (2 days later) it's an issue affecting multiple lines - why wasn't this picked up earlier when BT ran the tests against my line, surely somebody else would have complained and there was ample opportunity for the callout to be cancelled between me being offered a slot, identifying a slot and IDnet confirming that with BT. After the missed callout I was told in a phone call that it was never going to happen as it's a major incident but nobody (and I'm blaming BT here, not IDNet) thought to tell me before I wasted 1/2 day leave.

Currently BT are still dealing with the repair work on this fault. I have spoken to them and at the moment while it is still being worked on there is no clear ETA as yet. It is seen as a priority job due to the nature of the fault so most likely will be worked on over the weekend should the work over run.

This was the last email I had and came Friday afternoon. I've been checking BT's status page all week and whilst there are a few issues listed this one isn't. Google cannot find any relevant answers for "broadband problems southend" or "fibre problems southend" in the last 7 days so I'm getting the feeling that BT are 'being economical with the truth' on this one although I've not searched specific forums such as Thinkbroadband - my 3g connection is too slow and my (capped) data usage too precious.

My biggest frustration (after the fact that I could be being misled) is the lack of updates. Every email (and the single phone call) I've had from IDNet has been a response to me asking a question. I'm not sure if IDNet offer an 'out-of-hours' number but as the fault is with BT I haven't bothered to look as I already know that 'BT are working on it'. The problem is that working on it is not the same as fixing it - accepting Gary's point above that faults are not always easy to mend - and because BT aren't fixing it IDNet are looking bad. Support did agree that I should complain and say that they would raise it with their account manager at BT but the problem is, as always, the fact that IDNet are a small ISP and don't have the clout to get anything done. I remember having issues a couple of years ago that affected all (or at least most) IDNet customers, they didn't have much impact on BT so this issue (Which in IDNet terms appears to be just me) is of no interest to them at all. We pay a premium for IDNet's service and with the things that they manage there are no problems. As soon as it moves beyond IDNet however, we are at the mercy of BT and that's an issue for me at the moment. Another ISP could be just as bad and in fairness to BT there have been a few minor outages but this is my 1st major outage (>1 day) in 12 years of having broadband and I could have had as many, if not more, with another provider. However, by the same token I could have had less.

Unless by some miracle it gets fixed today I'm going to be ringing VirginMedia in the morning to get 100mb fibre that will be delivered on coax and remains underground the whole way to the exchange - possibly even to the datacentre so less chance of cars hitting telegraph poles or street cabinets. It's going to cost me less than I currently pay. Sure, there are downsides - traffic management, overseas call centres for starters - but if I do go to them I'm not going to have a phone line so it will be a 12 month contract which was the same as when I went FTTC with IDNet and I didn't regret that at any point. Even if it gets fixed today I might well jump ship, if IDNet (and therefore BT) lose a customer it's a protest they might take note of, certainly more than:

(IDNet) "One of our customers had a 6 day outage this month"
(BT) "Did they move to another ISP that's not reselling infinity?"
(IDNet) "Nope"
(BT) "Well, no problem then"

Sheesh, it seems like I come back to the forums just to complain. I guess in a way that's true - I used to take a much more active part in these forums but had personal issues that kept me away for a while after which I stayed away, partially through embarrassment but now I have a problem here I am complaining about it

[Simon]

I suppose it all depends on the nature if what's caused the outage.  If, for example, it's a pole down, or a damaged cabinet, or maybe cable theft, then it may take BT a while to restore all services.  The frustration though, as you say, is not knowing what's going on.

[Inkblot]

I'd normally agree Simon - but I can't find any mention of a problem on the BT service status page or through Google. My telephone still works so it's not a pole down or a damaged cabinet and if it was cable theft I would expect to see something in the local papers or at a minimum be able to find something using Google - according the the information from support it's affecting multiple lines so although I appear to the the only IDNet customer affected there are others but none of them are complaining about it!

[mervl]

I agree lack of information is the bugbear, apart from the lack of broadband obviously. But despite IDNet's "premium" service (and pricing) BT OpenReach get the same payment for the local loop service (prescribed by Ofcom) for us as they do from any other ISP (whether a one man band or the cheapest mass market outfit) and there is no "premium service".

I'm sorry but I think the ways that damage can be caused to cables (from anyone making an excavation, or accidents and theft - which is not a minor problem whenever cable is present) and even hardware faults - which aren't unknown, mean that you can't put everything down to incompetence "in this day and age". There isn't a magic wand. And the quality of service can differ between local areas and between engineers. Sorry but it's what I experience in every line of business, and I'm honest enough to admit in every place I've ever worked. And I don't think we even begin to understand the logistics of publishing an up to date and accurate database of the status for every line, or even street or cabinet.

If we depend on a residential broadband connection for our life, then I'm sorry but that isn't BT's problem. Annoying yes, extremely so, but it's the way of the world. We'd all like BT to put all the effort in at whatever cost to sort out our problem, but I'm afraid (and I've been there) it's just saying "I'd like everyone else to pay for my Ferrari". Of course I would, but they won't. And I say that as someone who had a phone line problem in suburban south-east England (Essex actually) that took two years to sort out (meaning my voice phone service didn't work for more than 50% of the time and for months on end, and at a time when a close relative was critically ill, and the nursing home wouldn't use a mobile number to call, due to the cost). Beat that. (And I wasn't the only one). I just had to work around it. I couldn't fault the engineers' work on the problem and they were tearing their hair out as much as me. And I don't have the option of Virgin cable.

[Gary]

Where I live there is a problem with cab 2. its run by bad aliminium and everytime  some works on the cab is done someone's phone or broadband goes down. The guy across the road has had no Broadband for a month, the thing is BT wont replace the cable as its a huge job, on a small cab so its not viable on the old finances.  What do those peeps do? If it was a big cab in a big town I'm sure the cable would have been replaced, the engineers are sick of it as they keep getting pulled back because any work they causes issues. The issue is this info getting up the chain, people don't like to listen when lots of cash is involved for a small financial reward, and thats the nature of big business. If they can drag it out they will because the return on that cable being removed which is a big job is not worth it.

Edit: have you gone around your neighbours and asked if they have any broadband issues? Always worth asking. I have an ongoing fault since March no sign anyone knows what it is apart from REIN somewhere or the DLM being mad, so until I get FTTC my lines a yoyo on speed latency which drives me mad and the engineers because it shouldn't be working the way it is, but management are not engineers...that's an issue. Fibre cables can be damaged by roadworks be aware nothing is full proof with broadband, when you read a paper on how it all works (Lecture paper on broadband for BT) you realise its a miracle it does work at all considering what's fighting against it every day. 

[Den]

After I moved to BT on the 8th of August I had an intermittent noisy line with bad crackling on it and after 10 days my speed dropped to 26mbs and then a few days later to 16mbs. BT responded by setting up a visit a couple of days later and kept texting me to tell me the state of play and to make sure I was going to be there. They even agreed to a morning visit as I wanted to get off to work.

Two openreach guys turned up at ten past eight in the morning and the one in charge really new his stuff. One and a half hours later after they had remade the connections outside and checked the system numerous times I was left with a speed of 37400mbps on Infinity 1 and a upload of about 9mbps. It has been stable ever since and I have had at least three phone calls a couple of emails and three texts from BT to make sure I am satisfied.

I must admit when I moved to BT I did not expect this level of service and it has been a very pleasant surprise. 

[Gary]

Same level of service you would get anywhere,Den.  BT like any ISP have to sort an issue out and since it was affecting your voice circuit they always respond faster than they do to broadband only issues. Be glad it was a fault they could fix so quickly. So did you move to BT expecting them to not fix your faults? Odd move if it was

[Inkblot]

I've spoken to my immediate neighbours (One is BT, other is Sky) and neither of them have had any issues. Not spoken to anybody else but I'm the local 'computer guy' so they usually come to me when they have problems anyway. I've been down to the street cabinet that I'm connected to and it doesn't look as if there has been any work done recently although unless they dig the road up I probably wouldn't be able to tell anyway. I just can't get away from the fact that my FTTC worked without any major issues for 2.5 years and the day (actually the small hours of the morning) after I migrate to a bigger package I have no broadband at all. I *know* it shouldn't make any difference but having worked in IT support for 25 years I'm not a great believer in coincidence. My OpenReach box is not showing a DSL connection, almost as if my connection has been ceased completely but that can't be the case as according to support BT could see an issue and wanted to send an engineer. I have rebooted my OpenReach box a couple of times a day in case the problem is resolved and the box needs a reboot to reconnect but so far no good. I've even searched the ThinkBroadband forums for the word 'southend' across all ISP forums but nothing comes up

I guess I can call support for an update in the morning, who knows - somebody may have read this thread and might even call (or email) me before I get the chance to contact them. My personal details aren't given here but I would have thought that there aren't too many cases like this one open at the moment, I certainly hope not!

[Den]

Same level of service you would get anywhere,Den.  BT like any ISP have to sort an issue out and since it was affecting your voice circuit they always respond faster than they do to broadband only issues. Be glad it was a fault they could fix so quickly. So did you move to BT expecting them to not fix your faults? Odd move if it was

They where not really aware of the noise on the line as they thought that was fixed. I moved to BT because I wanted fibre broadband and no one else could match their deal, I had heard so many stories about how BT do not respond (including on here) that I did not know what to expect and so it was a most pleasant surprise. I have a number of friends and family who sing BT's praises but I still had doubts of my own.

By the way I am about two mile from the exchange and I believe that some of the cable between the cabinet and the exchange is aluminium and was laid about twenty years ago. 

[Simon]

If IDNet read this thread, they can identify you from your IP, Inky, as it will be visible to them in your posts. 

[Inkblot]

If IDNet read this thread, they can identify you from your IP, Inky, as it will be visible to them in your posts. 

Won't do them any good - I'm using my phone as my IDNet connection isn't working

[Simon]

Silly me. 

[Niall]

BT can and will BS you. Case in point my problems for the last couple of years. I'm less than a mile from the exchange and get slower speeds than Den. I'm on a cabinet further away from my property than I should be and am connected to a cabinet half a mile away when there's one around the corner. I'm having constant problems but have now just given up because quite frankly the rubbish BT are telling IDnet and the fact IDnet are just accepting it is unacceptable. I'm just waiting for my contract to finish and I'm moving ISPs, probably to AAISP as their public shaming of BT seems to get results. Yes it will be more expensive, but if I can get answers for once, it would be a nice change

[Den]

Hi Niall, Nice to see you back, we have missed you 

I found that when I had a problem and spoke to BT they listened and acted upon it. Their response was great and communication was fantastic. Perhaps if you have a problem with a line it is better to deal direct.