Moving my wi-fi modem upstairs.

[ianp2312]

I'd like some advice on moving my wi-fi router/modem. At the moment it sits on the floor by the  front door of my house, near the BT phone. Both the router/modem and the phone are plugged into the BT faceplate next to the door via a splitter. All very conventional. Am I correct in thinking that I can simply run a longer wire from the splitter to the modem/router if I wish to move it to a convenient spot on the first floor of my house?  And a second point: what about moving the BT faceplate itself upstairs, so the whole kit and caboodle (phone and modem/router) are located up there on the first floor, instead of cluttering up the corner of my ground floor hallway? Ta.

[nowster]

Whatever you do, don't use flat cable.

[Gary]

I'd like some advice on moving my wi-fi router/modem. At the moment it sits on the floor by the  front door of my house, near the BT phone. Both the router/modem and the phone are plugged into the BT faceplate next to the door via a splitter. All very conventional. Am I correct in thinking that I can simply run a longer wire from the splitter to the modem/router if I wish to move it to a convenient spot on the first floor of my house?  And a second point: what about moving the BT faceplate itself upstairs, so the whole kit and caboodle (phone and modem/router) are located up there on the first floor, instead of cluttering up the corner of my ground floor hallway? Ta.

It would be best if the faceplate has IDC connections for data is to use them and a cat 5e or better still a cat 6 UTP cable run as a data extension then have a RJ11 Socket put in and plug the modem router into that really, otherwise if you use cheap flat cable you will increase noise on the line and end up with reduced speed and may even get drop outs, how far is it away that you want to move it? You cannot move the faceplate as its BT property and its in violation of the network to touch anything from the NTE5 back, you can add extensions from the faceplate though, to get BT in to move the master socket would cost £160 or more, unless you know a nice engineer who could do it for you.

If you get one of theses which works for ADSL and FTTC it has the IDC connections to run the data cable. http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/btvdslfaceplate.html

[Simon]

I'm sure it's all doable - are you thinking of moving the BT faceplate yourself though?  Only, I'm not sure BT would like that.   

Edit - thanks for the conformation, Gary. 

[Tacitus]

Not strictly on topic but I may be looking at a similar problem.

My sister - currently with iDNet - is looking at fibre.  At present the main socket NTE5 is in the hallway.  UTP cable runs from there to the extensions.  Using a spare pair the ADSL signal goes direct to the first extension location where it terminates in an rj11 adjacent to the phone extension socket.  The ADSL router is situated here.  All phone extensions are filtered from the filtered faceplate on the NTE5.

If fibre is installed does she need to have the BT Huawei modem and if so must it be sited next to the main socket?  IE In the hallway.  The mains socket is at the other end of the hall and so would be problematic.  There seems to be CPE kit coming on the market that combines the modem and router in the same manner as ADSL.  Do these work without the Huawei BT modem or is there no way you can get round it.

The obvious would be to have, as now, a combined modem/router situated at the first extension but I don't know if this would be possible with fibre.

Moving the NTE5 would be a major problem as the dropwire would need to be re-routed which wouldn't be a simple task.

[Gary]

Not strictly on topic but I may be looking at a similar problem.

My sister - currently with iDNet - is looking at fibre.  At present the main socket NTE5 is in the hallway.  UTP cable runs from there to the extensions.  Using a spare pair the ADSL signal goes direct to the first extension location where it terminates in an rj11 adjacent to the phone extension socket.  The ADSL router is situated here.  All phone extensions are filtered from the filtered faceplate on the NTE5.

If fibre is installed does she need to have the BT Huawei modem and if so must it be sited next to the main socket?  IE In the hallway.  The mains socket is at the other end of the hall and so would be problematic.  There seems to be CPE kit coming on the market that combines the modem and router in the same manner as ADSL.  Do these work without the Huawei BT modem or is there no way you can get round it.

The obvious would be to have, as now, a combined modem/router situated at the first extension but I don't know if this would be possible with fibre.

Moving the NTE5 would be a major problem as the dropwire would need to be re-routed which wouldn't be a simple task.

You can now get routers that have VDSL Modems built in so you would not need the BT modem, but they may not always sync as well, you need to research the best and most compatible VDSL modem router and they are pretty expensive. Be aware that if you have an issue and they fit the BT Huawei or ECI modem first, you would need to put it back on of for trouble shooting. TBH I think separate units allow for more flexibility and stability but that's just my personal view, and they tend to talk to the cab better as they have the firmware designed to do it and sometimes matching say ECI or Huawei modems to the cabs (made by ECI or Huawei) gives a better sync. Ideally you should have the modem as close to the socket as possible but you can order a data extension kit with your FTTC for free, it gives you up to 30 meters or cat 5e to have the modem placed elsewhere. Only BT can move the NTE5 if you get caught doing that you could be denied service. BT can run cables anywhere in the home without moving the dropwire normally, they do that kind of thing regularly.

[Tacitus]

You can now get routers that have VDSL Modems built in so you would not need the BT modem, but they may not always sync as well, you need to research the best and most compatible VDSL modem router and they are pretty expensive.

I thought you could get them.  Don't Billion and Zyxel do them.  At a price 

Be aware that if you have an issue and they fit the BT Huawei or ECI modem first, you would need to put it back on for trouble shooting. ...........
Ideally you should have the modem as close to the socket as possible but you can order a data extension kit with your FTTC for free, it gives you up to 30 meters or cat 5e to have the modem placed elsewhere. Only BT can move the NTE5 if you get caught doing that you could be denied service. BT can run cables anywhere in the home without moving the dropwire normally, they do that kind of thing regularly.

TBH I would rather she did have the two since this would probably make troubleshooting easier if she moved from iDNet to (say) Zen/Plusnet.  Given the increased bandwidth she's using now the grandchildren visit regularly, this is more than likely.  I'm pretty sure the existing extension is twisted pair, just not sure it's Cat5.  When I set it up I used one of the spare pairs as an unfiltered line for ADSL.  It would be straightforward to replace it, although it would have to be external Cat5.

Assuming she did have the Huawei/ECI modem what would you suggest as the router?  Doesn't the Huawei output PPoE so the router would need to accept that as input. 

As you'll gather I'm a bit at sea when it comes to fibre.  Since we can't get it round here it's all seemed a bit academic 

[Gary]

I thought you could get them.  Don't Billion and Zyxel do them.  At a price 
Assuming she did have the Huawei/ECI modem what would you suggest as the router?  Doesn't the Huawei output PPoE so the router would need to accept that as input. 

Yes its has to be able to cope wth a PPoE connection. Asus do pretty well, and I have been using a Netgear D6300v2 (802.11.ac router) I would say the Asus routers are good, the RT-AC66U is a good router, it covers the new AC bands and more and more kit is coming out now that uses that. There is a RT-AC68U but tbh its a bit like 3D TV the extra speeds over 2.4Ghz need another device that's compatible, so most people will never see 600Mbps over 2.4Ghz anyway, Turbo Quam does help older devices connector better it would appears but I think these routers are gimmicks at this time. I use the D6300v2 as Netgear gave me that when I err... caught them out in a little lie about specs  its a solid AC router, like the Asus ones, range over 5Ghz is amazing and it uses a smart technology that pinpoints 802.11.ac rather than trying to cover everywhere in a huge blanket signal, and legacy N devices over 5Ghz to a smaller extent get a great signal with no dead spots in my home, so you get a great signal all round. Its 2.4Ghz signal covers all of my old Bungalow easily and ploughs though thick walls with ease and you can pick it up almost 300meters down the road and that's on neighbourhood friendly mode, as does the 5Ghz signal as they all have amplifiers like the Asus units to to get maximum coverage.

Above all the newer routers have much faster cores, much more ram and cope better with multiple devices and higher FTTC speeds. Mine has a dula cre 800Mhz CPU with 256mb Ram and 128mb Flash. You can buy one and sit back and be happy for quite a few years to come tbh. I see little point now in buying non 802.11.ac routers as that frequency is now ratified, most new smartphones uses it, computers too now and other devices are coming out using it as it replaces 802.11.n and with speeds approaching in good conditions a theoretical 1300Mbps over 5Ghz they are worth the money.

[Simon]

Why does the RT-A66U have to look so unwieldy, when the cheaper one looks much better?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004TPWRSK/ref=cm_sw_r_udp_awd_AEcNtb1PCCT57

Surely they could hide the antennae internally these days?

[Gary]

Why does the RT-A66U have to look so unwieldy, when the cheaper one looks much better?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004TPWRSK/ref=cm_sw_r_udp_awd_AEcNtb1PCCT57

Surely they could hide the antennae internally these days?

I dont think it does tbh, it can sit flat or upright, but they are higher gain aerials (detachable so you can add better ones) and those big aerials give you great coverage, much better than internal one ever can because you can position them using say inssider for optimal coverage. I think it looks quite good really. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-RT-N66U-Wireless-streaming-Warranty/dp/B007W16SMO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402748615&sr=8-1&keywords=RT66U Now this Asus has six aerials and is tri band

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2358823/the-asus-rt-ac3200-router-6-antennas-802-11ac-speed-and-a-slew-of-wi-fi-boosting-tech.html

[Tacitus]

Thanks for the information Gary.  Very helpful 

[Simon]

I can't get to grips with all this dual-band and tri-band stuff.  What does it mean in basic simple terms?  All I want to do is to be able to use my laptop in the bedroom, without some sort of Wi-Fi booster, and I'm not interested in spending hundreds of pounds, just to get a nanosecond faster speed.

[Gary]

I can't get to grips with all this dual-band and tri-band stuff.  What does it mean in basic simple terms?  All I want to do is to be able to use my laptop in the bedroom, without some sort of Wi-Fi booster, and I'm not interested in spending hundreds of pounds, just to get a nanosecond faster speed.

It not a nanosecond faster at all , Simon. Using 802.11ac its well I can shift internally at almost just over 800Mbps not quite the 1.3Gbps but I have walls and its not plain site but thats still great for HD movies etc. Dual band gives you the less crowded  spectrum at 5Ghz and greater bandwidth, but at a shorter range, hence the more expensive routers come with signal amplifiers, they also can handle more devices at higher speeds, they use beamforming tech to pin point your devices and make sure each one has a better signal.

These new routers spread their coverage further and transfer data at much faster rates, in the long run its like buying a phone, you pay more you get better tech hopefuly, which is more robust and will last until you out strip its needs. Its like the iPhone, Simon. You bought the 16GB one and its been frustrating, same with some routers, you pay a little more and you should not hit the ceiling of its usefulness so quickly. The Asus RT models are good and the D6300v2 has been very stable for me and means I get wifi in all corners of my property with no issues and at good speeds. Even BT's home hub has 802.11.ac now and is dual band. My iPhone likes the 5Ghz band better as does my iPad compared with the crowded 2.4Ghz frequency and as mentioned it has greater bandwidth. I would not be surprised at if the iPhone 6 has 802.11.ac this year as many of the current Macs do now, and Sony, HTC and Samsung has been using 802.11.ac on quite a few models now. The same is happening with 802.11.ac dongles enabling better speeds on older laptops and of course newer ones have it built in too. 

[Simon]

Thanks for taking the time to explain, Gary.  I still have little idea of what the numbers actually mean, and what the difference is between 802.11.ac and the old one, or what it even relates to, but to be truthful, I've never really bothered to learn all that stuff. 

At the moment, I have a Billion 7800N, which is a good router, as far as I am aware, and I can't really see that it's reached any 'ceiling of usefulness', as nothing else has changed.  I haven't got a better connection now than when I got it, and I have no desire to do HD streaming or anything of that nature. 

As I said, the only slight frustration is that wifi isn't robust at the other end of the flat to the router.  This could well be due to the positioning of the router, but it would be difficult to place it anywhere else, as it obviously needs to be near a power supply, and in proximity of the phone socket.  It's impractical to have it on a shelf, as you need headroom for the antennae, plus space at the back for the cables, so the only practical location is screwed to the wall behind the computer, as there isn't room for it to lay flat on the PC desk.  My old 2Wire 2700HGV could stand on it's end, which made positioning less restrictive, but having said that, the wifi was still flakey in the bedroom. 

[Steve]

I think sometimes with the newer routers you can or the router can 'direct' the signal somewhat to where the device is , great if it works but expensive if it doesn't.

[Tacitus]

At the moment, I have a Billion 7800N, which is a good router, as far as I am aware, and I can't really see that it's reached any 'ceiling of usefulness', as nothing else has changed.

Can't you use the 7800N in front of the Huawei for fibre?  Whilst wireless ac might be useful, it will be a while before I have enough devices that fully take advantage of it. 

[Gary]

As I said, the only slight frustration is that wifi isn't robust at the other end of the flat to the router.  This could well be due to the positioning of the router,

The router should in theory be in the centre of your property for best signal coverage, saying that mine isnt its at the far corner but still covers the entire place.  The 7800N is a great router but with FTTC for example and a busy household with many devices the bottle neck is its low powered CPU and small amount of ram, also single band routers are more limited, dual band is much better for streaming media like HD moves and music without the usual interference from the cluttered 2.4Ghz spectrum.

I can stream HD youtube clips to my TV/or iPlayer in HD while downloading an HD movie to the sky box while another person could watch an HD stream or transfer music or data around the network and even have the PS4 downloading a game without issue. Its great that the network does not become bogged by the routers for once. Saying that if what you have is fine for your needs thats all that matters. I would not have bought an 802.11.ac router at the time if it had not been a freebe from Netgear, now I see how capable they are I'm impressed, and glad I don't sit there while things freeze or buffer at a distance when using higher quality data streams.

Like alll tech you cant keep up, my dual Core 800Mhz CPU is slow compared with some 1Ghz and 1.6Ghz ones using two Broadcom BCM4360 chips now instead of the one. But its fine for my needs, and covers all my bases, its also nice having upstream as well as downstream QOS as well for gaming.

[Gary]

Whilst wireless ac might be useful, it will be a while before I have enough devices that fully take advantage of it. 

It wont take long, more and more devices are using it. As I see it why buy a old technology when getting a new router 802.11.ac is backwards compatible anyway so it makes sense to buy one now rather than have to buy another in a shorter timescale than necessary.

[SignLine]

Why does the RT-A66U have to look so unwieldy, when the cheaper one looks much better?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004TPWRSK/ref=cm_sw_r_udp_awd_AEcNtb1PCCT57

Surely they could hide the antennae internally these days?

I think hiding the antenna only makes the coverage worse in most cases, hence I have an old Belkin with externals that gives better coverage than a newer Belkin with them hidden and a newer still Netgear N900, saying that I have also bought the Asus RT-AC68U which is £128 on Pixmania which does have external antenna, but disappointed when I placed it in various places it doesn't give that great a wireless coverage, and the oldest router I have the Belkin F5D8230 still gives the best wi fi range. I wish technology advanced quicker and actually worked and gave big improvements.

[Steve]

My Asus RT N66U has good coverage on the 2.5Ghz network , the aerials needed optimising and a development software from Asus Merlin WRT seemed to improve matters further. I can if I wish increase the output via this software however I've not needed to.

[Simon]

I had a Billion 7800N, followed by (currently) a 7800DXL.  The older 'N' had better wifi coverage than the DXL, and both have external antennae.