Fibre broadband but not with idnet

[exxos]

I am looking to change over to fibre, though its more the upload rate I am interested in, and IDnet only do 1.9mb on the lite package, moving to a more expensive package is a little excessive as I only do light web browsing, email, games etc in general.  Going by the prices from Idnet to others it would end up costing me 3 times more than anywhere else easily   I know I get great support on IDnet which I never will anywhere else, but even so 

We have our phoneline with IDnet too, though if I change over to another ISP, would it cause any problems with the phone line ? Would prefer to keep IDnet as its a business line.

[Simon]

Just curious, do you think a greater upload speed will make much difference if you "only do light web browsing, email, games etc in general"?  As far as I am aware, you can still keep your phone package with IDNet, even if you move your broadband.

[exxos]

I run the games host server myself, but I also want to run my own websites from my server too eventually, so downloading isn't so important as uploading for me. Also if I make any changes to my websites on other hosts, a faster upload is a lot better for me also. Faster upload won't do any good for stuff in general no, but running my own server is what I want to do, frankly tired of having hosts mess up my site or email in one respect or another which is my motivation just to run the server myself. 

[Simon]

Ah, that explains it. 

[stevenrw]

If you are, like me, otherwise very happy with IDNet's service it might just be worth holding fire for a little while before jumping ship exxos.
I started a thread a little while ago regarding new packages from IDNet, which had been promised for some time.
You can pick up the thread here
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,32265.0.html
Simon did a little digging and was advised that they are "refreshing" their packages in the "Autumn". (Well, today is technically the start of Autumn in the UK so it should be soon... )
I believe there are several who are agonising over the decision to search elsewhere for their service because IDNet's current offerings on Fibre are a bit inflexible especially if you are not fortunate enough to have a cabinet very close by. I'm also stuck with the 1.9 capped upload on the Fibre Lite package because I couldn't get the increased download speed Fibre Pro, so I'd be paying a lot more for very little gain.
Regarding your phone line, I'm sure Simon is correct and you can stay with IDNet for phone only. The problem is that you may end up paying a premium to move to another ISP on a Broadband only basis. Indeed you'll see that pretty much every ISP, large or small, want to sell you the whole thing as a bundle.
I know Zen will hit you for another £5+ pm if you don't take the phone with them.
http://www.zen.co.uk/business/broadband/fibre-optic-broadband/fibre-and-phone-packages-faqs.aspx#q22

[exxos]

Thanks for link will have a look though.

I'm not jumping next week kinda thing, I have a huge problem of working out where the cables are going to go for starters as my router is no where near the master phone socket. I assume its a normal LAN cable which goes into the master socket ? I either gotta run a extension from the socket to the router, or move the router, which then means I have to route 4 cables. I can see them being routed outside around the house somehow 

I have seen other ISP's pushing phone packages, or a £50 connection fee. From what I see though, the phone deals are actually more expensive than we paying with IDnet now. Broadband is more expensive by a couple of quid without the phoneline, though our line rental will also go up with IDnet as it won't be a package deal anymore. 

The jump from ADSL2 to Fibre is about £100 a year jump, then another £100 for the faster upload rate.  Even if the lite package had the faster upload rate, thats still another £100. Idnet also list a near £100 connection charge so its just getting to much.

One of the ISPs I was looking at I think was £17 a month, £50 connection, 40 down, 20 up, unlimited. It seems a lot of ISP's doing 6 month cheap deals to get you signed up. Fixed IP I need, most ISP's do not even say anything about it so that rules out a lot of them.

Don't get me wrong I not had any problems with IDnet, I went though epics with other ISP's. IDnet was twice the cost of everywhere else, but at least they give good support and have been more reliable than anywhere else.  I will look back and see what their packages are when I have sorted the cable problems out, though as it stands its like a £200 to £400 jump when a lot of other ISP's are charging less for fibre than what I am paying now for ADSL 

[stevenrw]

Do you not have power close to the master socket? I'm assuming you are connected wirelessly and if so, you just need the router near the master socket.
Obviously if you have to use a wired connection that complicates matters logistically.
As far as cabling and hardware is concerned, here is what you need.
Assuming you go with FTTC (aka BT Infinity as resold by IDNet and most others) as opposed to pure fibre as supplied by Virgin Media, you will get a visit from a BT engineer who will install a new BT OpenReach faceplate on your existing master socket.
He will also supply a BT Modem which is a little white box which is plugged in to the new BT Telephone socket via a normal phone cable. You also need a local power socket for this.
Now you need a router which is good for fibre. It will have an EWAN port on the back. This is plugged in to the modem via an RJ45 cable (aka Ethernet cable). This router then gives you your wireless capability.
So please check to see if your current router supports this, otherwise you will have another capital outlay, you should budget £50-£100 for a half decent router depending on how good you can currently pick up a wireless signal. . Bear in mind that your chosen new ISP may supply a free router but generally these are the bare minimum quality and may well give you wireless reception difficulties if your walls are thick or your home is very large.
So, to cut a long story short, you need to look at where your current master socket is in relation to your router. It may be that you can put a long ethernet cable between the router and the BT modem.
I know that TalkTalk are currently supplying a router which has the modem built in, so its a single box solution rather than the two box solution described above, but I don't know if you would necessarily want to go with TalkTalk after IDNet, that would be quite a culture shock...

[Simon]

(Well, today is technically the start of Autumn in the UK so it should be soon... )

Autumn also technically lasts for three months. 

[Steve]

So it could be anytime before Xmas!

[exxos]

Do you not have power close to the master socket? I'm assuming you are connected wirelessly and if so, you just need the router near the master socket.
Obviously if you have to use a wired connection that complicates matters logistically.
As far as cabling and hardware is concerned, here is what you need.
Assuming you go with FTTC (aka BT Infinity as resold by IDNet and most others) as opposed to pure fibre as supplied by Virgin Media, you will get a visit from a BT engineer who will install a new BT OpenReach faceplate on your existing master socket.
He will also supply a BT Modem which is a little white box which is plugged in to the new BT Telephone socket via a normal phone cable. You also need a local power socket for this.
Now you need a router which is good for fibre. It will have an EWAN port on the back. This is plugged in to the modem via an RJ45 cable (aka Ethernet cable). This router then gives you your wireless capability.
So please check to see if your current router supports this, otherwise you will have another capital outlay, you should budget £50-£100 for a half decent router depending on how good you can currently pick up a wireless signal. . Bear in mind that your chosen new ISP may supply a free router but generally these are the bare minimum quality and may well give you wireless reception difficulties if your walls are thick or your home is very large.
So, to cut a long story short, you need to look at where your current master socket is in relation to your router. It may be that you can put a long ethernet cable between the router and the BT modem.
I know that TalkTalk are currently supplying a router which has the modem built in, so its a single box solution rather than the two box solution described above, but I don't know if you would necessarily want to go with TalkTalk after IDNet, that would be quite a culture shock...

I have a DSL-N66U ASUS router, though its hard to tell if it will work or not. There was a couple people on a google search saying it does work. Though I am lost how it is all supposed to connect together.

By what you are saying, there is going to be a BT box plugged into the new master socket then the router plugs into that ?

There is power next to the master socket, but I really do not like anything wireless. My router is in a room upstairs connected via a crazy routed phone extension cable, which I will have to replace by a (assume) RJ45 LAN type cable ?

[exxos]

So it could be anytime before Xmas!

Probably take me that long to get around to sorting the cable out 

[stevenrw]

I don't think your router will do it, as it doesn't have the all-important EWAN port. There are loads of really knowledgeable and helpful people here who will no doubt be able to confirm that in due course.
And yes, the BT modem plugs into the phone socket and the router plugs into that (via ethernet cable from the BT modem to that pesky EWAN port on the router, which your Asus unit does not have  )
You obviously have your own reasons for not liking wireless but it seems that you are really (IMHO) painting yourself in a corner by wanting to retain a wired connection.
I think you'll find that wireless works just fine, provided you set up good security. And once you have made that leap then switching to fibre will be a whole lot easier.

[Technical Ben]

Also, are you sure the lite package is enough for gaming and hosting? The can be bandwidth intensive at times. While they only trickle in, 500mb a day can soon add up.

[exxos]

I just looked on the back and its got the DSL port, and a EWAN post on the back so it should be OK ?

My laptop runs from wireless, though its never been as reliable as wired connection. The ASUS router has been the best on wireless, probably works >95% of the time. I've had many routers in the past and wireless has always been a royal pain in the rear in one respect or another.  Its been a while since I had a BT router, though I couldn't get wireless to stay connected more than 20mins at a time. I gave up and got netgear routers which only dropped out several times a day.  I don't know how good the ASUS wireless is throughout the day as the laptop isn't used much, but seem to have connection troubles now and then.  I'd rather have no troubles at all.

I've had motors like in vacuum cleaners kill RF equipment in printers & routers. They are sparky things and use the mains lead as a antenna and thats it, a few mV in RF and your wireless stuff is toast. It took me ages to figure it out. Since put protection diodes on some wireless cards to protect against over voltages on RF and it solved the problems. Seems manufactures do not take into account "external noise" a lot of the time, so the fridge turns on and wireless drops out for a few seconds. Most people would not even notice it, but I do   I could write a book on why I hate wireless, but thats just me   It be easier yes short term to do stuff wireless, but long term, its just ends up creating more work and really annoying the hell out of me

[exxos]

Also, are you sure the lite package is enough for gaming and hosting? The can be bandwidth intensive at times. While they only trickle in, 500mb a day can soon add up.

I don't think I use more than 1GB a month in general, though for the best part of hosting, its the upload connection which is being used, which AFAIK there isn't a cap on anyway. I think I upload more than I download in general as always updating my websites etc.   But that's another issue anyway as I have not seen any other ISP's limit cap the downloads, they are all unlimited, not just set to 25GB etc.  But your right, it could be a problem in the future, which is also why I may need to move away to a unlimited package anyway 

[zappaDPJ]

Now we've got rid of most of Sky and plugged the TV into the Internet, I've been trying to work out how much bandwidth we will consume without needing to clock-watch the allowance (my current 200GB package clearly isn't enough). I'd say to be comfortable and to cater for my daughter coming home from uni during the holidays we'd need a 300GB - 350GB package which is dead in the middle of no man's land as far as IDNet's packages are concerned.

I recently compared a Sky offer package comprising 80+ channels HD TV, unlimited broadband and line rental with a weekend only unlimited call package to the cost of a 500GB IDNet package with line rental and unlimited calls. Not exactly like for like but as close as I could get and the difference is quite marked @ £31.53 vs £112.20 a month. After a year the Sky package increases by £7.00 to £38.53.

If IDNet increased their allowances by 50% or more for the same cost I'd consider staying but I'd say that's probably unrealistic so I'll almost certainly switch when we move in around 6 months time.

[Clive]

ID Net will have to keep up with trends otherwise they will find themselves in a backwater.  Watching TV over the internet has become very popular and will undoubtedly become more popular in the future.  My son has Sky and uses 10 Gb a day!  Sounds as if you are doing the same Zap. 

[stevenrw]

Is it this one?
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/products/17189-asus-dsl-n66u/
Judging from the user reviews on Amazon you are not the only one to have problems with it. I'd look at the Asus website to see if there is a firmware update for it that may solve some of the problems. I'd be pretty disappointed to have problems on a unit at this price point I have to say.
It sounds like you've had more than your fair share of problems with routers in general and wireless in particular. I've never had the kind of issues you've experienced. My router's wireless signal is solid for months on end and its nothing like as fancy as this one.
Another thing to try is Powerline adapters. Sometimes called "internet through the mains" Something like this might be worth a try:
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/products/13356-netgear-xavb1301-100uks/ but there are several on the market at various prices.
Everybody you ask will have a view on what is the best router, so I'll not waste your time with my recommendations.
However, what I would suggest in addition to a firware update is that you try changing the broadcast channel. Its a simple enough thing to do and can make all the difference to a good and a nightmare wireless signal. Go into your routers setup pages, which you normally access via a web browser and entering an ip address.
Then go to the wireless setup and look for the channel id. If you are set to channel 1 for example, try changing it to one at the other end of the range, maybe channel 10 or channel 12. That worked a treat for me.

[Gary]

ID Net will have to keep up with trends otherwise they will find themselves in a backwater.  Watching TV over the internet has become very popular and will undoubtedly become more popular in the future.  My son has Sky and uses 10 Gb a day!  Sounds as if you are doing the same Zap. 

Not really, they are a primarily a business provider, they are not set up and I doubt can afford unlimited at a price we can, yes revised plans are coming and I hope they fit my needs, but they will never be a commercial provider like Zen with the cash to throw around to provide huge amounts of bandwidth on the consumer side at an affordable price.

[colirv]

The 100GB I get from IDNet is more than enough for me. Hitherto I've been prepared to pay the additional cost over, say, Plusnet, because of the reliability IDNet offers. Now that I have a decent smartphone to which I can tether I'll always have some connectivity, so I'll be looking for a cheaper package rather than more bandwidth.

[Simon]

I'd be surprised if the packages get any cheaper.  My guess is that they would look at expanding the value of the current packages, rather than creating cheaper ones.

[Gary]

I'm looking for more bandwidth for the price I pay already, 100GB is nothing these days when a HD movie is maybe 4GB to download, and games can be anything up to 25Gb easily depending on size of course, if not I will have to consider alternative providers such as Zen which would be a shame as IDNet have been very reliable and have great CS.

[Tacitus]

I'd be surprised if the packages get any cheaper.  My guess is that they would look at expanding the value of the current packages, rather than creating cheaper ones.

I agree Simon, that's what I think will happen.  They'll take the same price points and alter the allowances.  The one thing they may do is offer 40Mbps fibre something they don't do currently.  If you look back they tend to follow Zen pretty closely, although since Zen have started putting their own kit into exchanges, iDNet may not be able to continue doing that.

The fact is iDNet are primarily a business to business supplier.  Stuff such as domain hosting, IP telephony and possibly private cloud services are all things that iDNet offer (or in the latter case, may in the future), which are of little interest to the average consumer, who simply wishes to do some email, download films and watch the footy.  However they are things for which a premium can be charged and for which a business will be prepared to pay provided the service and reliability is there.  For a small business like iDNet,  concentrating on the business market is a no-brainer. 

[Technical Ben]

I'm thinking my work should switch to IDNet... it's constantly playing up.

[exxos]

Is it this one?
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/products/17189-asus-dsl-n66u/
Judging from the user reviews on Amazon you are not the only one to have problems with it. I'd look at the Asus website to see if there is a firmware update for it that may solve some of the problems. I'd be pretty disappointed to have problems on a unit at this price point I have to say.

I have not really put the wireless to the test on the ASUS router, in general do not have any problems with it, my laptop is old which is a probable cause, but I would just rather wire things up, then if my connection does drop, I know 100% its not the wireless acting up. Troubleshooting networks isn't easy so I like to keep things simple.

As for the comments about the GB usage, its a point actually. It reminded me I have been downloading games this past month, easily 1-6GB a go. I don't download much so still unlikely to hit the 25GB limit myself.  If IDnet upped the lite to 50GB and top speed upload rate then it would be better for me personally. Though as one guy said, IDnet is business broadband, so they give good support, but its costs more.  I don't know why they limit the up speed anyway ?, Its not capped and can't imagine many would max out the upload rate as opposed to the download rate. As it stands, if you want the top speed upload rate, you can't use the lite package, fair enough, but point being its like £150 to £400 for a similar service elsewhere. I have been with IDnet some years and would like to stick with them. Though my pockets aren't deep like many, and can't really justify the price jump. 

I don't mind paying a little more to actually speak to someone on the phone how knows what they are talking about , not just reading a script. Though currently there are unlimited packages half the price of IDnet easily. Old story of you get what you pay for. Though I feel IDnet could be a little bit more competitive. They could be maxed out service wise already so maybe they do not want to be "to attractive" I have no idea.

Problem being a lot of ISPs want a 18 month contract and if it turns into a bad move then its problemsville. I know some people who have been on other ISP's for like 15 years and never had any problems. Though they may use the net each day, they are not downloading and uploads data, like when I update my php scripts I do a lot of testing, so if the connection drops a few times, it annoys the hell out of me. Though more general people wouldn't even notice it happen.

After all the epic problems with other ISP's, IDnet I have stuck with all these years as it simply works. It basically boils down to risk to save cash. I would have thought internet services would have grown up a bit in general overall these past few years anyway.  If my internet goes down  for a couple of days its not much of a big deal these days for me as my girlfriend has internet anyway.