iOS8

[Steve]

iOS8  is now out, of course being eager I'm downloading it on the iPad now!

Edit: well I thought it was updating, but it reports as update requested . we'll see.

[Tacitus]

iOS8  is now out, of course being eager I'm downloading it on the iPad now!
Edit: well I thought it was updating, but it reports as update requested . we'll see.

Best to give it a couple of weeks and let others have all the grief that comes with a new release.....   

Looks like OSX Yosemite will be out next month.  I usually wait until the .2 or .3 release before I upgrade.  Gives time for the bugs to shake out and software developers to get up to speed with new releases.

[Steve]

Lets see if the internet holds up , it normally gets a little busy with an iOS release.  It's 1.1 Gb for the iPad and I may have it within the hour but not holding my breath.

https://www.linx.net/pubtools/trafficstats.html?stats=day

[Gary]

Mine downloaded it in about 30 minutes now its preparing it  My iPad gave an error which I think was busy servers.

[Steve]

Well it works, Safari seems rejuvenated, my typing is slicker, but other wise rather underwhelming which I think is good in many ways.

The ability to carry on browsing from where you left off on say my MacBook is rather well done. Handoff is it's proper name and of course uses icloud.

[Simon]

I was going to skip this on the 4S, but I doubt I'll be able to withstand temptation.  That said, I definitely won't be doing it till the weekend, as I remember when I upgraded to iOS 7, it took hours, and I was waiting for it to finish so I could get to bed!

[Steve]

The Apple map app shows completely no screen information unless it's in satellite/hybrid mode.

[Simon]

Oh dear!  The Apple Map App has a rather difficult history! 

[Steve]

I'll take it back as I assume the information comes from the data centre which presumably is fairly busy tonight.

@Simon. http://www.macrumors.com/2014/09/17/ios-8-iphone-4s/

What I don't like on my nearly 2 year old iPad is that if I scroll from the top to the bottom of a web page or vice versa I end up with blank screen for a couple of seconds . This is not new data it should be cached already.

[Simon]

Thanks for the heads up, Steve.  Think I'll give it a miss then.

[Steve]

Don't about giving it a miss but maybe just worth leaving it for a week or so to see what the early 4S adopters think.

[Simon]

I'll have probably caved in and ordered the 6 by then. 

[Gary]

The Apple map app shows completely no screen information unless it's in satellite/hybrid mode.

Mines working ok, Steve.  There is a warning not to install it on the 4S at this time. Its not really designed for the screen size, and its sluggish. Seems fine on my 5s and iPad 4 so far.  http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/09/ios-8-on-the-iphone-4s-performance-isnt-the-only-problem/

[Gary]

Well iOS8 is definately buggy, I had to do a soft reset to get facetime working on the ipad, but both my ipad and iPhone and my mothers and my mates all get this in the logs when the phone sleeps. stacks+backboardd errors that say "thermal data unavailable" Hopefully 8.0.1 will be along soon 

[Glenn]

Others are reporting problems too http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/18/apples-ios-8-bugs-apps-on-older-devices-failing-to-work-with-latest-update-4873185/?

[Gary]

Others are reporting problems too http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/18/apples-ios-8-bugs-apps-on-older-devices-failing-to-work-with-latest-update-4873185/?

Those older devices have either half or quarter the ram, Glenn. The iphone 5s and 5 both have 1GB and I cant see a diference in speed on the 5s at all, although with predictive text a larger screen would now be more useful when typing with apps. Predictive works the same as it does for android with the suggestion above the keyboad. an iPhone 6 (not 6 plus its way to big) may have to be bought once some revues come out.

[Gary]

Seems that stacks+backboardd error has vanished as of this morning,  Maybe it needed to contact Apple or something who knows.

[zappaDPJ]

Just about to brick... I mean update my iPad now

[Steve]

It should be ok.

[zappaDPJ]

I'm actually a little nervous about it after the problems I had with my iPhone last time. At least I won't have a problem with that device this time.

[Gary]

Have to say My iPad 4 is actually running very well with it, I like the widget function in notification centre, I'm still going to grab a new iPad this year when they update them though, my Mothers having this one.

[Gary]

I'm actually a little nervous about it after the problems I had with my iPhone last time. At least I won't have a problem with that device this time.

My iPad went smoothly. I would suggest after it has updated leave for a while then soft reset using the power and home button, that seems to cure any glitches. Facetime was very crackly on mine till I did that.

[zappaDPJ]

Everything seems to have gone smoothly although I did get a little more nervous reading through a list of problems people have encountered applying the update, while I was applying mine

It all looks the same to me so far apart from the 'Tips' app and some changes to Safari which I don't like at all including the history pain... sorry, pane hanging left with it's pale blue background. That's going to annoy me intensly

[Gary]

Everything seems to have gone smoothly although I did get a little more nervous reading through a list of problems people have encountered applying the update, while I was applying mine

It all looks the same to me so far apart from the 'Tips' app and some changes to Safari which I don't like at all including the history pain... sorry, pane hanging left with it's pale blue background. That's going to annoy me intensly

Is that in landscape mode? I dont have that in portrait mode at all. In Landscape I have a bunch of options at the side but they are not pale blue 

[zappaDPJ]

Is that in landscape mode? I dont have that in portrait mode at all. In Landscape I have a bunch of options at the side but they are not pale blue 

Yeah, landscape mode only it seems. I'd post a screen shot but for some reason neither my iPad or iPhone are not showing up in Windows Explorer today

[Simon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29251961

[zappaDPJ]

I noticed that in iTunes when I was updating the iPad.

[Gary]

Or use iTunes... 

[Gary]

IOS 8.1 released.

[zappaDPJ]

At the present rate of progress I should have it by Friday! I guess Apple's servers can't keep up.

[Lance]

Downloading to my iPhone as I type...

[zappaDPJ]

I abandoned it and started again. I got there eventually but it still took 90 minutes for 2GB.

Something I've noticed, I get the impression that people think if you update iOS via iTunes you don't need any memory headroom on the device. I've just bricked my daughter's iPad in exactly the same fashion as I bricked my iPhone recently. The common factor? Neither device had any memory headroom. Could be coincidence I guess but I'm not convinced. I wish I could remember what I did to get my iPhone to boot because I really can't get this iPad to start. I know it involved using a fresh iTunes installation on another device but that's not working

[zappaDPJ]

Well the first thing I've noticed is messaging is broken. I can't send any

[Gary]

Well the first thing I've noticed is messaging is broken. I can't send any

it's all working fine here that fact it's much better than the last version messaging is working fine and the weird stacks errors of gone as well

[Simon]

This may help with the iPad, Zap:

http://lifehacker.com/5848640/how-do-i-fix-my-bricked-iphone-ipad-or-ipod-touch

[Gary]

Remind me never to post from in bed with my glasses off before I go to sleep  *it's all working fine here in fact it's much better than the last version, messaging is working fine and the weird stacks errors have gone as well* On a side note Safari is now much smoother.

[zappaDPJ]

I finally managed to restore the iPad, the link simon posted reminded me of a step I'd forgotten so thanks for that. Interestingly there wasn't quite enough memory available to restore all the data which has convinced me never to upgrade again without having a little memory headroom.

Safari does indeed perform better although I still really dislike how it functions. Having to scroll up to reveal the navigation buttons is a retrograde step. The new menu system that shrinks the view-port is also a terrible idea for anyone needing reading glasses.

I still can't send messages on either iPad though, they just hang the app for about 5 minutes.

[Steve]

I too do not understand the navigation button change with Safari. It's irritating having to scroll up again a little to get them back.

[Gary]

If you just tap where the navigation bar buttons are they appear without having to scroll back up, I guess its done to give a clean look but its odd.

[Steve]

Ok I'll try that.

[zappaDPJ]

That does make it a little more tolerable, thanks Gary

[Gary]

Looks like iPad Air 2 is going to be very fast. 3 core CPU and 2GB ram, which I bet comes to the iPhone 6S. Waiting for mine to be delivered this week hopefully  I have no patience 

http://www.gsmarena.com/apple_ipad_air_2_benchmark_reveals_3core_cpu_and_2gb_of_ram-news-10003.php

[Simon]

I've heard they come with a hinge. 

[Steve]

  Having priced one up it's circa £700 with cover and extended warranty for me to do like for like with my current one.

I must be getting tight in my old age, very undecided. My gut feeling is to hold off for another year, the performance constraint for me outside the house is public WiFi and the mobile network not the iPad itself.

I think it's probably still the best tablet  but the others are not far behind and some come with a big cost saving.

[Gary]

Having priced one up it's circa £700 with cover and extended warranty for me to do like for like with my current one.

I must be getting tight in my old age, very undecided. My gut feeling is to hold off for another year, the performance constraint for me outside the house is public WiFi and the mobile network not the iPad itself.

I think it's probably still the best tablet  but the others are not far behind and some come with a big cost saving.

I just went for it, with a buyer for my iPad 4 it was not to bad a price. Its faster than some of the 2009/10 Mac Book Pro's which is a surprise. Also pixelmator is being released for the iPad and that would be the machine to use it on. I agree some other tablets come with the cost saving but I know it will get three updates it can handle, and some Android tablets may only see one. Since I use it more than my ageing iMac as well that helped me make my mind up. 

[Gary]

iOS 8.1.1 released with fixes for iPad 2 and iPhone 4s performance

[Simon]

Some might say about time too!

[Steve]

I'm hoping it addresses the issues of Safari stalling repeatedly and the frequent re loading of webpages due to errors.

[Gary]

Some might say about time too!

Took longer in iOS7 for a fix for the iPhone 4 it was 7.1 which was about 6 months in, Simon.

[Gary]

I'm hoping it addresses the issues of Safari stalling repeatedly and the frequent re loading of webpages due to errors.

I got the staling but not the reloading, links now work without having to scroll the page first slightly, where as before they got stuck.

[Steve]

Not checked yet properly but will later, it will be interesting to see how the 4S are performing as I've one in the household still on 7.

[Gary]

Not checked yet properly but will later, it will be interesting to see how the 4S are performing as I've one in the household still on 7.

From looking at the Apple site the few posts I have seen seem quite positive. I'm still glad I didn't change my iPhone 5S for an iPhone 6 though, after seeing the performance of the iPad Air 2 I bet the 'S' versions gets the triple core processor and 2GB ram. That extra ram and A8X I imagine really helps with apps like Pixlemator which on the iPad is superb, considering how good the Mac version is. 

[Steve]

The advice on here - http://www.tuaw.com/2014/11/18/how-much-does-ios-8-1-1-improve-your-iphone-4s/   is still to stay away from 8 on the 4S, yes performance is improved over earlier versions of iOS8 but suggests it's not as able as it was on 7.

[Steve]

In my experience with the iPad 4 , I now where they're coming from

http://www.wired.com/2014/11/ios-8-buggiest/

The software boys can't keep up with the hardware advances, however as long as there's resolution I suppose it's ok , trouble is when they update to the next version the cycle starts again.

[Gary]

In my experience with the iPad 4 , I now where they're coming from

http://www.wired.com/2014/11/ios-8-buggiest/

The software boys can't keep up with the hardware advances, however as long as there's resolution I suppose it's ok , trouble is when they update to the next version the cycle starts again.

They are working on 8.2 next and also 8.3 simultaneously. Its not just software, the recent Assassins Creed Unity game was released with a huge amount of bugs that are being patched as the game is being sold, but it should never have been released in the state its in. It seems the force to push code out on the dates determined by the companies has no bearing on how ready the software is. Same happened wit GTA V yesterday with a buggy patch that had to be re released the same day.  I have to say I have no show stopping issues on my 5S or iPad Air 2 at this time after 8.1.1 which is good, it all works quiet well. Having an 802.11AC router helps with wifi on the AC enabled iPad as well, also it seems to mean I missed the wifi issues. Saying that I didn't have any on the 5S either 

[Steve]

I've not thrown the iPad on the floor in disgust yet since the 8.1.1 update.

Btw the floor is carpeted

[Gary]

The advice on here - http://www.tuaw.com/2014/11/18/how-much-does-ios-8-1-1-improve-your-iphone-4s/   is still to stay away from 8 on the 4S, yes performance is improved over earlier versions of iOS8 but suggests it's not as able as it was on 7.

Considering how old the 4S is now its not really surprising. Nokia smartphones never updated the Symbian 60 version to later releases, they just gave patches for the version you had.

[Gary]

I've not thrown the iPad on the floor in disgust yet since the 8.1.1 update.

Btw the floor is carpeted

[Simon]

The 4S is only three years old.  I know that's 'old' in technology terms, but for the money these things cost, they really shouldn't be seen as disposable so quickly.  If Apple only brought out new software and hardware every two years, the 4Ss would still be going strong. 

[Steve]

It's certainly fine on iOS7 at present , perhaps that's where the mistake was made. I think that Apple knew (as people have since found out) that the 4S struggled along with the earlier iPads on iOS 8.0.

[Gary]

The 4S is only three years old.  I know that's 'old' in technology terms, but for the money these things cost, they really shouldn't be seen as disposable so quickly.  If Apple only brought out new software and hardware every two years, the 4Ss would still be going strong. 

Its 4 years old, it came out in 2011 Simon. It also only has a one Ghz CPU and half the ram of the 5, 5S and 6. I think any phone at that point will struggle with latest software. Computers do. As more/faster ram and faster CPU's come along it happens, its a shame with the power in android phones they don't get that many updates as they could probably handle it, as no phone really needs eight cores and 3GB ram 

  As to bringing out software and hardware every two no company makes a profit doing that anyway, and the jumps in tech hardware and software would seem even greater. I mean the iPad Air 2 makes the iPhone 6 and 6 plus look old already with a geekbench score of 4489 multicore compared with the iPhone 6 at 2920 and the 6 plus slight worse as its taxed more by having more pixels to push around with the same CPU and ram. iPhones get updated with software more often than Android phones and you know your phone will be top of the tree of a year while some firms like Sony release two top tier models a year, thats crazy. Its like OS X, it used to be two years between new operating systems, now its a new one every year and no way can all the bugs be ironed out in just one year <sigh> Microsoft seem to now be following a similar model too.

[Steve]

Sorry Gary , it just over 3 years , October 2011.

[Simon]

I was trying to work out which handset I'd missed! 

[Gary]

Sorry Gary , it just over 3 years , October 2011.

Sorry I was miles away, it is indeed three phones behind the current phone, still as I was saying underpowered and with half the ram, what do people expect especially since Apple started using 64-bit architecture. Maybe Apple should do a end of life edition for old phones   

[Simon]

What Apple should do is draw the line in the sand sooner with regards iOS upgrades for older devices.  If iOS 8 doesn't work properly on the 4S, then, like the 4, it shouldn't have been allowed to be updated.  That would then give people the choice as to whether to upgrade device and operating system, rather than applying the offered new iOS and finding out afterwards that it screws up the device. 

[Steve]

There is a way back of course , well there was until 8.1.1

[Simon]

Oh, thought those bridges were burned quicker than that.  Like, when you did your first backup. 

[Steve]

Jail.......

[Simon]

Oh, yes.    Haven't done that since the 3GS.

[Gary]

What Apple should do is draw the line in the sand sooner with regards iOS upgrades for older devices.

The thing is each new version of iOS like Android comes with security fixs so its as much a patch as a new OS. So many iOS users and Android users are wandering around with handsets with gaping holes in them security wise that will never get patched. Maintaining older phones with security updates would be the answer but Android based phones makers, and  Apple are more interested in your money, so that's not going to happen. Answer is upgrade every two years or put up with it and stop winging tbh. Thats the world we live in now, and its not one I like, but I cant do anything to change it. Also putting an unsigned version of iOS using a jailbreak on a handset which makes the phone more vulnerable to malware seems like p*ssing into the wind really...

[Steve]

I'm still getting the Safari page reload error although not as frequently , it's interesting that I've now gone back to my laptop as my main web browser. Why because it works most of the time instead of some of the time.

[Gary]

I'm still getting the Safari page reload error although not as frequently , it's interesting that I've now gone back to my laptop as my main web browser. Why because it works most of the time instead of some of the time.

Im not seeing reload errors in tabs, maybe its the extra ram  It was one of the complaints last year about the iPad, hence why people wanted more power and extra ram, you cant render pages and have multiple tabs with those issues and not realise in the end it comes down to hardware limitations , a more graphically intensive web, and the need for more memory basically. 

[Steve]

I tend not to use many tabs at all on the iPad so I'm discounting that but I agree it's on graphically intense web pages where it tends to fail, probably why the iPad Air 2 has quad core and 2Gb. It usually gets it right second call but it's the inevitable delay that's irritating, I do not recall this being feature of iOS7 .

Interestingly I thought I had an home WiFi issue as well but now reading around I'm not sure I have at all.

Seriously considering whether my wife needs a second hand MBP 15 but coming from a dual card MBP the equivalent upgrade cost for me is very high although a lot depends whether I would require dual cards on a new MBP this time.

[Steve]

I've had another look at this today and I've switched browser on the iPad to Google Chrome. Initially it was fairly slow but as cache has built up the experience has improved, what I'm not seeing is any of the page reloads/errors that I see with Safari personally I''d rather have a page that's loading and therefore useful than a blank screen.

The other choice if this fails is to try Dolphin.

Certainly there's an advantage to using one browser across all platforms although Chrome on the MBP activates the high power graphics card which obviously consumes more battery power.

[Steve]

One Chrome iOS crash so far, if this carries on it maybe time to cash it in whilst it still has value. I do find a tablet very useful when away from home so a replacement will be required, however I think there are more options now for me than there were a couple of years ago. Certainly I can get a modern tablet for half the price this iPad cost, note to oneself - no hasty decisions.


The other choice would be to go back to 8.1 whilst it is still signed and then JB back to 7.1.2, it might give the advantage of checking stability but it throws up other imponderables plus it's a bit of work which I probably can't be bothered to attempt.

[Steve]

Having had a reasonable test of 3 browsers there's no doubt in my mind that Safari for iOS is the best performing overall in terms of ease of use, functions and speed. I guess I'll just have to put up with the page reload error for the time being.

[Gary]

Having had a reasonable test of 3 browsers there's no doubt in my mind that Safari for iOS is the best performing overall in terms of ease of use, functions and speed. I guess I'll just have to put up with the page reload error for the time being.

Im definate;ly not seeing those page reload errors, Steve. Safari is still a bit clunky but it works pretty wwell now on my iPad. Maybe its because they are writing predominately for 64bit now and older devices are being left behind, which would be sad. On another note I downloaded Geekbench to see what mine came out like, result 4534 on multi. that is just such a huge leap from the iPhone 6 the slower 6 plus and the iPad Air let alone the 4, the thing is if iOS 8 and onwards needs this kind of performance then it will make the tablet market almost throw away on Apples side. Then again with Lolipop slowing down older tablets as well on Android maybe its a sign of a new marketing trend to get people to update hardware

[Steve]

I would agree that there's no point in having a high performance machine and dumbing down the OS so it will cope with older devices but then again as mentioned earlier why offer it. The android situation I think is probably slightly different as no performance gain was intended apart from a runtime change from Dalvic to ART, I think the OTA  update file is causing the issues on certain devices, this is of course how the majority will update as opposed to a fresh install on a reset device.

[Gary]

I would agree that there's no point in having a high performance machine and dumbing down the OS so it will cope with older devices but then again as mentioned earlier why offer it. The android situation I think is probably slightly different as no performance gain was intended apart from a runtime change from Dalvic to ART, I think the OTA  update file is causing the issues on certain devices, this is of course how the majority will update as opposed to a fresh install on a reset device.

I think its pretty obvious that a machine with half the ram of the last generation of iPads/iPhones would have issues but the 4 should not. Then again on the Apple forums the original iPad Air and previous models were being harangued for tab refreshing all the time in safari due to what many believed was lack of ram. When Android handsets function fine you have to look at Apples hardware specs but why iOS 8 is so 'Heavy' I have no idea.

  I think in January 8.2 will be released, maybe that will help, but it says a lot when the flagship iPhone 6 plus is slower than the 6 because its having a hard time pushing the 1080P screen with the same hardware spec as the 6. Apple need to think about this and have maybe a cut off point or leave a signed version of the last version of the previous iOS release on the table, but iOS 7 had some big security holes that 8 fixed, so what do you do, maybe offer patches like OS X for older OS's?

[Steve]

Obviously we don't know how many of these older devices are performing well on iOS8 it's only the complaints that we hear.  Looking at Apple's hardware costs outside the U.S. I think that they do have a responsibility to ensure optimum function for I would say three years at least, if the means patching the previous OS with security updates so be it. As you say they do it with OSX but that maybe be related to older chipsets??.

[Gary]

Obviously we don't know how many of these older devices are performing well on iOS8 it's only the complaints that we hear.  Looking at Apple's hardware costs outside the U.S. I think that they do have a responsibility to ensure optimum function for I would say three years at least, if the means patching the previous OS with security updates so be it. As you say they do it with OSX but that maybe be related to older chipsets??.

I think OS X is supported for two years maybe 3 I'm not sure tbh. The patches in iOS (8.1.1 had a few) https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT6590

I cant see why they cannot do the same with iOS, and keep the last iteration for three years, the problem comes down to app writers maybe who may stop supporting older versions of iOS its probably hard work trying to support two versions with different chipsets and ram and now screen sizes. 

[Steve]

I forgot that, yes the third party apps could be the key point here.

[Marioy]

If your phone is above iphone 4s, it could work well. Maybe the space is not much enough. You could use iphone cleaner to get more space..

[Gary]

If your phone is above iphone 4s, it could work well. Maybe the space is not much enough. You could use iphone cleaner to get more space..

Its nothing to do with 'space' its to do with cpu and ram...also I wouldn't jailbreak my phone to use a cleaner, its not needed 

[Steve]

Thanks Gary , I too can find no evidence of the mentioned app in iTunes App store and wish to point out that jailbreaking itself has it's own inherent risks.

[Gary]

Thanks Gary , I too can find no evidence of the mentioned app in iTunes App store and wish to point out that jailbreaking itself has it's own inherent risks.

Indeed, keeping your phone as safe as you can these days is really important, and jailbreaking comes with as you say its own risks which for myself are not worth it. 

[Simon]

You don't need to jailbreak to use some iPhone 'cleaners'.  I've used PhoneClean3 on my 4S occasionally, and it does free up some space. 

http://www.imobie.com/phoneclean/

[Gary]

You don't need to jailbreak to use some iPhone 'cleaners'.  I've used PhoneClean3 on my 4S occasionally, and it does free up some space. 

http://www.imobie.com/phoneclean/

You shouldn't have to, all data kept is generally required, also that app is not in the app store... so how did you download it?

[Simon]

It's a Windows app, Gary. 

[Gary]

It's a Windows app, Gary. 

Right so you are using a windows app thats not been tested to be safe for iOS to to clean your iPhone...nope that's a big no no for me. You have no idea what code is in that app or what its really doing to your iPhone and it could install malware like some third party apps have recently that people in China downloaded. Its like third party cleaners for Windows mostly never needed, generally can do more harm than good, registry cleaners are snake oil.

[Simon]

How do you know its not been tested on iOS?  If you're saying no to any Windows app for iOS, then you'd better uninstall iTunes. 

All this does is removes what you ask it to remove.  This might be app caches, many of which build up quite considerably, orphaned app installation files, etc, or it can clear all messages in one go, should you wish to do so. 

[Gary]

iOS 8.1.2 released bug fixes for vanishing ringtones and whatever

[Gary]

How do you know its not been tested on iOS?  If you're saying no to any Windows app for iOS, then you'd better uninstall iTunes. 

All this does is removes what you ask it to remove.  This might be app caches, many of which build up quite considerably, orphaned app installation files, etc, or it can clear all messages in one go, should you wish to do so. 

No what I'm saying is iTunes is created by Apple (I dont use windows by the way)  Apple does not sanction anything interfering within the sandbox of iOS hence this app is not available within the app store for OS X. Also since this app is written by a third party and Apple have not given it any kind of ok you don't know what its doing inside your phone, god help us with the ones that Google and Apple do sanction. UBER for android, that was meant to be a taxi app  but it was collecting other material. You cant trust third party apps to clean up iOS as much as you cant trust reg cleaners to clean up Windows or Apps to clean up OS X (even CCleaner is no longer available in the app store of OS X due to sandbox issues) Just because it says it does a certain thing how do you know its not doing something else or muck up your file system? As to orphaned app files they are tiny and messages, well you can do that by clicking delete