Should I try restarting my router? Or is that a bad idea? (Sync speed Question)

[Jimbo]

Hi guys n gals.

Really quick question if you don't mind.  As some of you may have read, I had some issues with my line and all seems to be going fine now.  Andrew at IDNet mentioned BT reset my profile because the line was more stable and that by Friday (gone) I should of seen my profile speed increase.

Well it's now Sunday and my speeds are still the same.  I am currently sync'd at 480000 (which is less than my upload speed!) and the max I can download is at 30KB/s.

It has been at this nice stable speed since about Tuesday.  The line itself has been up for over 5 days now without one disconnection (which I'm really pleased about!) but I would of thought this would have increased.

The BT speed test site says I have a profile (or is it throuhput?!) of 250k?  So I take it that's like the lowest of the low really.

Would restarting my router help it sync at a better speed, or should it do it automatically?  Would restarting at this stage muck up the work done so far (i.e. the 5 days stability) and therefore should I leave it a bit longer to see what happens?  Perhaps for 10 full days?

Router Stats now....

SNR Margin - 14.5dB (although it does go up to 21.0dB sometimes).  I think higher is better for this yes?

Attenuation - 47.0dB (this has been at this for the whole 5 days, never fluctuated, which I take is a good sign).


I think that from the above stats I should be able to hit around 2Mb without too many problems.



Thanks for any help.

[Rik]

Hi Jimbo

Your sync speed will only recover if you disconnect or re-boot your router, the system will not push the sync speed higher of its own accord. If you have been on a constant connection since Tuesday, your profile should have lifted, but it will only lift to the current sync speed, so that isn't helping you. I would suggest a re-boot, and have a look at both the resultant sync speed and noise margin. If the latter is much higher than 6db immediately after re-sync, it would suggest your target margin has been set higher than the default 6db by BT. That would limit your speed. If that is the case, you will either need to talk to support again to try and get it lowered, though I have heard that BT can be a bit reluctant to make the change, or you will have to maintain a constant sync for 14 days, after which the target margin should reduce by 3db.

Attenuation shouldn't really change very much, it's a characteristic of the line, so any significant variation may indicate a problem, eg a bad joint. For a 47db attenuation, I'd expect you to get 4Mbps or better.

[Jimbo]

I would suggest a re-boot, and have a look at both the resultant sync speed and noise margin. If the latter is much higher than 6db immediately after re-sync, it would suggest your target margin has been set higher than the default 6db by BT. That would limit your speed.

Hi Rik

Well just restarted...

I have went from 480000 -> 736000.  Hmm... I was kinda hoping for a bit more than that. 

SNR Margin is now 14dB (so similar to before).  I may email IDNet now and see if this can be set back down to 6dB.  Although, I have interleaving on so can I get 6dB or will it always be higher?

Many Thanks.

EDIT: Just checked the SNR Margin again and it's now at 20dB...

[michaelh]

Hi Rik

Well just restarted...

I have went from 480000 -> 736000.  Hmm... I was kinda hoping for a bit more than that. 

SNR Margin is now 14dB (so similar to before).  I may email IDNet now and see if this can be set back down to 6dB.  Although, I have interleaving on so can I get 6dB or will it always be higher?

Many Thanks.

EDIT: Just checked the SNR Margin again and it's now at 20dB...

Does your router have a facility for you to set the target SNR?

[Rik]

SNR Margin is now 14dB (so similar to before).  I may email IDNet now and see if this can be set back down to 6dB.  Although, I have interleaving on so can I get 6dB or will it always be higher?

Interleaving can be on at any noise margin setting. As Michael is hinting, if you can use the DMT software, you can lower your target noise margin. The fact, though, that your margin is moving between 14-20db suggests that your line is still not 'well'.

[Jimbo]

Does your router have a facility for you to set the target SNR?

Hi

I don't think so, no.  Or at least I haven't seen anywhere to set anything relating to SNR.

Here are the two sections of the Router related to ADSL.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/j_firegod/Computer/ADSL_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/j_firegod/Computer/ADSL_2.jpg

Cheers.

[Rik]

Can you borrow a router from anywhere, Jimbo? I've seen reports elsewhere of problems with Billion models - given how bad your stats are, it might be worth trying a swap if you can.

[Jimbo]

Interleaving can be on at any noise margin setting. As Michael is hinting, if you can use the DMT software, you can lower your target noise margin. The fact, though, that your margin is moving between 14-20db suggests that your line is still not 'well'.

Ah I see cheers mate.  What's DMT software though?  

I've been keeping a log for the past week or so and the SNR Margin has changed from 14dB up to 21dB but my attenuation has been steady.  

What are the figures I should be aiming for... obviously it's different for everyone but is there a kind of "ballpark" which is average for most people?

So what are we thinking here though, get back in touch with IDNet and get the BT Engineer out again.  

Cheers.

[Jimbo]

Can you borrow a router from anywhere, Jimbo? I've seen reports elsewhere of problems with Billion models - given how bad your stats are, it might be worth trying a swap if you can.

Lol you keep replying when I'm typing.   Erm, yeah I bought that Netgear model that you recommended from the B-Grade shop.  I have it just sitting next to me.  Should I try that one again?  I'm not going to do any damage to my profile with another disconnection, or does it take more than 2 to affect it?

Cheers.

[RobMc]

For a 47db attenuation, I'd expect you to get 4Mbps or better.

Just for info I have a 47db attenuation and sync at 8128Kbps (interleaved) DS Margin hovers around 6 +/- 2 or so.

Rob.

[Jimbo]

Just for info I have a 47db attenuation and sync at 8128Kbps (interleaved) DS Margin hovers around 6 +/- 2 or so.

Rob.

No fair. Lol. 

[Rik]

Hi Jimbo

See my thoughts above on the router. The notional target for ADSL Max is 6db, it's the figure that is used during the initial 10-day training period to set the stable line speed. In practice, for poor lines, it may be increased. I requested that mine be set at 9db, for example, and this figure stops my line from dropping, albeit at a slight loss in sync speed and throughput.

In your case, your target margin seems to be 15db+. In theory, the highest setting by BT is 15db, but clearly either your router is mis-reporting the margin or it is higher (possibly as a result of a re-sync when noise was at its highest). While that is happening, your sync speed is being suppressed. For your attenuation, you should be able to get 4-5Mbps.

Assuming you've eliminated the usual issues with your own wiring and equipment, then all you can do is talk to IDNet again and see what they can extract from BT. Possibly, it might be worth moving to a fixed speed line, but before doing that I'd certainly suggest trying another router or modem.

[RobMc]

lol, when I went max I had no expectation of getting anything like that. I'm quite a long way from the exchange. All I was trying to suggest, was that with a attenuation like that you could well do better then you have already managed to get it up to. Don't know if it's significant, but I have a BT fitted adsl socket in the house (I was originally on Home Highway ISDN) and get very few resyncs.

Rob.

[Rik]

Lol you keep replying when I'm typing.  

I know, it's a problem with forums.

Erm, yeah I bought that Netgear model that you recommended from the B-Grade shop.  I have it just sitting next to me.  Should I try that one again?  I'm not going to do any damage to my profile with another disconnection, or does it take more than 2 to affect it?

It's worth trying the Netgear, it will eliminate the Billion (or point the finger at it). Provided that you do not re-sync more than 10 times/hour, it should not affect your profile. Given where the profile is, I think the most important thing to do right now is to establish a connection at a higher speed and then maintain it. Only once you have done that can your profile recover. It might, depending upon how the Netgear behaves, be worth looking into one of the BT 2700HGV 2-wire routers on eBay, a number of people have had very good results from them on poor lines. See here.

[Jimbo]

Ok tried the Netgear in now...

So far it's sync'd much quicker but re-sync'd x3 times.  At first I was at 2784 KB/s then 1888 KB/s and now 1760 KB/s.  However, line attenuation is worse...

From 47dB with the Billion Router to now 57dB... BUT... the SNR Margin has dropped from the 20dB down to 10dB. (However this figure is still changing, it was at 9dB but it has gone back up).  Now it's reported as 13dB.  It's just not staying the same.

I'm confused! 

[Jimbo]

Ok seems to have settled at 11dB +/- 1dB for the SNR Margin.  I'll try leaving this Router in for the next few days and see if the situation improves.  Thanks for that link, I'll have a read of it.

[Rik]

The varying noise report is typical of Netgears, I see a 7db swing during the day. Everything you say suggests that there is considerable noise on your line though, either through a fault or through pickup. I'm assuming, if you've had an engineer out already, that your internal wiring has been eliminated, so I'd suggest you get back to IDNet and tell them what's happening. Without knowing what your target margin should be, we can only guess which router is doing the better job, but my hunch is that the Netgear is reporting your attenuation more accurately than the Billion - the 2784 sync for 57db is not as wildly out as the figures from the Billion.

If IDNet can't obtain resolution of the problem from BT, it may be in your best interests to move to fixed speed (1Mbps) or to look at a router which can be controlled by DMT (the Speedtouch range), or one of the 2700 series.

[Jimbo]

Hi all.

Just got back in (from seeing Transformers... awesome film btw!).  Anywho, it's been up and running for nearly 3 hours now.  My SNR Margin however is now being reported as 1dB.  Lol is that even possible.   But apart from that everything seems fine, so like I say, I'll leave it running and see what happens.

Thanks for all the help.  I'd be stuck without it!

[Rik]

My SNR Margin however is now being reported as 1dB.

That's not unusual with Netgears, Jimbo, but they generally hold sync down to -3db or better. The key issue for you, now, is to maintain a stable connection and get your profile up. Let us know how it goes.

[Jimbo]

That's not unusual with Netgears, Jimbo, but they generally hold sync down to -3db or better. The key issue for you, now, is to maintain a stable connection and get your profile up. Let us know how it goes.

Hi Rik mate,

Well kinda of good news and not.  The Netgear is definately the better for me compared to the Billion but it seems it still disconnects and reconnects much more frequently than the Billion.  So what I plan to do (and I think you'll agree) is to buy the 2700GHV router like Lance, end of this month when I am paid and give that a go.  This Netgear is good, sync'ing the majority of the times about 2.5Mb but it seems it just can't hold it.

Going from roughly 12:07am this morning up until now, it has dropped the line roughly 10 times.  I am currently sync'ing at just over 1Mb tonight and it's really hurt my profile speeds.  The other day I had managed to crawl back up to ~40KB/s but now I'm about half that.

Line attenuation is still 57dB and rock solid and SNR seems to have settled around 9dB.

I think I'll keep at it till the end of the month and then buy the Router stated above.  I think that'll be the sensible thing to do and then if that is still no better, get back in touch.

Cheers.

[Lance]

I hope the 2700HGV works as well for you as it does me and the others who also use it!

[Rik]

what I plan to do (and I think you'll agree) is to buy the 2700GHV router

Sounds like a good plan to me, Jimbo. If you get the sort of results that others have reported, it should solve your problems. Let us know how it works out, will you.

[ReDGryphoN]

Now I have the drool off my keyboard, I would say give the 2700 a go, I love the beast (in a non sexual way of course)

lol

ReD

MAABOF

[Jimbo]

Lol cheers guys.  Will report back in a few weeks time.  

Good bit of news tonight though, my profile has increased! Woo!  Now downloading @ ~150KB/s.  Those new profile speeds must of come into play which I read about on here.

Enjoy the up coming weekend everyone!

[Rik]

I'm glad you're making some progress, Jimbo. Let us know how the new router performs once you're up and running.