FTTC Modems/Routers

[Tacitus]

With the advent of FTTC (RFS date end of Dec) I'm looking at replacing my existing router with one that is fibre capable.  My understanding is that iDNet's install will be via OR installing the modem so my choice will be either a router/modem combo or a plain router.  In either case I need one with Gigabit ethernet on the LAN side as I intend to run a NAS box once things are up an running.  I believe the Zyxel that iDNet supply, only has 10/100 Gigabit ethernet LAN ports which rules it out.

I'm not into futuristic designs so I've narrowed it down to the Zyxel SBG3300 (expensive) or one of the Billion range - possibly the 7800X, although one of the small vertical style ones like the Billion 8800N might be a proposition.  I'd really like an all-in-one like the ADSL router I have now, but these seem less common.

Has anyone any experience of any of these, in particular do they need the OR modem? Any other suggestions?

[Steve]

I ran the Billion 7800N on FTTC initially but then moved to an Asus RT N66U to take benefit of the 5GHz spectrum both worked well on my line. There have been comments that that particular Billion may not have the cpu power for fast FTTC lines but it was something I was not affected by. What I like about the separate box set up is that you can do what you like with router in terms of setup and subsequent reboots as the separate modem remains connected to the cabinet ensuring line stability and thus maximum throughput.

[Tacitus]

I ran the Billion 7800N on FTTC initially but then moved to an Asus RT N66U to take benefit of the 5GHz spectrum both worked well on my line. There have been comments that that particular Billion may not have the cpu power for fast FTTC lines but it was something I was not affected by.

I've seen the Asus routers are well regarded but must admit I'd not considered one.  That one doesn't look bad, although a VPN endpoint would be useful, but sizewise it would fit nicely into the existing space.  Can you mount them vertically?  I'm not too bothered about the Wireless as I could use an Apple Airport which I've got kicking about.  I suppose I could use the Airport as a router since it has a WAN port but the routing functions are pretty basic - NAT and that's about it.  It does have Gigabit LAN though and 5GHz. 

How easy is the Asus to setup?  I assume it's all done via a browser.

What I like about the separate box set up is that you can do what you like with router in terms of setup and subsequent reboots as the separate modem remains connected to the cabinet ensuring line stability and thus maximum throughput.

Not thought of the two box setup in that light but I can see the advantages.  You can get unlocked Huawei/ECI modems on eBay so that could be useful.

[MisterW]

If you still hanker after a 1 box solution, have a look at this http://uk.tp-link.com/products/details/?model=TD-W9980#over . It's ADSL/VDSL/WAN capable with Gigabit LAn and 5Ghz wifi, and has support for up to 10 IPsec VPN endpoints. About £70 from http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/products/17047-tp-link-td-w9980/ . It's pretty new , only been out about a month but what reviews there are so far seem positive...

[Steve]

The Asus will mount vertically, set up is via browser, there's strong support on smallnetbuilder.com. Also there's custom firmware with many followers -AsusMerlin-wrt

[Tacitus]

The Asus will mount vertically, set up is via browser, there's strong support on smallnetbuilder.com. Also there's custom firmware with many followers -AsusMerlin-wrt

Interesting site that Steve, particularly the section on NAS although most of them appear to be US models so possibly not directly transferable to the UK.  There does seem to be some interesting new stuff appearing regarding modems, particularly Wireless AC.

Couldn't find a reference to the alternative ASUS firmware.

[Steve]

http://www.lostrealm.ca/tower/node/80


http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/forumdisplay.php?f=42

I look on his firmware as debugged Asus

[Tacitus]

http://www.lostrealm.ca/tower/node/80
http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/forumdisplay.php?f=42
I look on his firmware as debugged Asus

Interesting stuff, thanks Steve.

[Tacitus]

Purely out of curiosity, has anyone on here used a Fritzbox?  Not sure it's a good thing to have a single point of failure for phone and broadband - assuming I used it as the point of control for DECT phones, but it does seem a good idea if they are reliable.

[MisterW]

We've got a Fritzbox 7390 running on our DSL line in the Netherlands. Seems reliable, don't know about the DECT functions since we don't use them but the VPN tunnel works fine.

[FritzBox]

Purely out of curiosity, has anyone on here used a Fritzbox?  Not sure it's a good thing to have a single point of failure for phone and broadband - assuming I used it as the point of control for DECT phones, but it does seem a good idea if they are reliable.

Had my 7390 over three years. Brilliant bit of one box solution kit. You don't have to connect your landline if you don't want to, I just use a VOIP phone with mine. They also have a 5 year warranty

[Tacitus]

Had my 7390 over three years. Brilliant bit of one box solution kit. You don't have to connect your landline if you don't want to, I just use a VOIP phone with mine. They also have a 5 year warranty

Which VOIP service do you use?  AFAIK most are aimed at business users and unless you are a heavy home user, the costs outweigh the benefits compared to plain analogue.

[MisterW]

I actually have a voip service as part of my PlusNet account but have heard that voipphone is good http://www.voipfone.co.uk/prices_new.php , AFAIK a basic PAYG account is free. I've used sipgate http://www.sipgate.co.uk/user/ in the past, and still have an account, although I'd heard rumours that it was closing down...

[Gary]

http://www.sipgate.co.uk/user/ in the past, and still have an account, although I'd heard rumours that it was closing down...

Sipgate closes on 31st December this year http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/voip/4375510-sipgate-closing-31122014.html?fpart=all&vc=1

[nowster]

That thread suggests that SIPGate may have reconsidered. I've got myself a new DDI from https://www.telng.com/ukddi.html just in case.

My Asterisk server plays out this to any unexpected call attempts (after a period of ringing). Currently someone is trying to get my server to dial a number starting 000441604212...

[Tacitus]

I actually have a voip service as part of my PlusNet account but have heard that voipphone is good http://www.voipfone.co.uk/prices_new.php , AFAIK a basic PAYG account is free. I've used sipgate http://www.sipgate.co.uk/user/ in the past, and still have an account, although I'd heard rumours that it was closing down...

I've had a look at Voipfone, which I'd never heard of before.  The call charges look little different to the standard analogue ones supplied by most providers, although presumably you get the VOIP facilities, such as calling from your PC/Mac, call diversion etc on top. 

Does this service run on top of iDNet broadband?  IOW you would have a 'line only' supplied by iDNet, with phone calls provided by Voipfone.  How do incoming calls work as I thought they were analogue only?  What about phone numbers - do you retain the one you currently have with BT?

Sorry for all the questions but I find it interesting that there are suppliers other than the smaller ISPs, the latter in many cases making a feature of supplying integrated comms to businesses.  I know iDNet do this as do Zen, whilst Timico make a major feature of it; in fact it seems to be their USP.

Makes you wonder when VOIP will become the norm for domestic users.

[MisterW]

Does this service run on top of iDNet broadband?  IOW you would have a 'line only' supplied by iDNet, with phone calls provided by Voipfone.  How do incoming calls work as I thought they were analogue only?  What about phone numbers - do you retain the one you currently have with BT?

Yes, voip runs over your Broadband and has nothing to do with your landline. You only need the landline for the broadband. Essentially a voip phone has a SIP URI e.g fredbloggs@voiphone.co.uk ( similar to an email ). If you know the URI then you can call one voip phone from another directly over the internet and  usually these calls are free. This isn't terribly convenient unless all your contacts have voip phones and so there needs to be a mechanism to call (and be called from) conventional landlines. To allow this your voip provider has a 'gateway' to the PSTN which routes calls to/from the conventional phone system. Your voip phone (hardware or software) 'registers' with your provider when it's online, very similar to a mobile phone. When you call a landline no from your voip phone the call is routed (by your provider) to the PSTN and your account charged appropriately (note that most voip providers don't charge a call setup fee unlike landlines!). To allow incoming calls to your voip phone the provider allocates a normal telephone number to your account and incoming calls to that no are routed to your voip phone. Porting your existing landline no is not possible since the landline must remain in service to provide broadband. 
Hope that helps to answer your questions, any more then post back.
   

[Tacitus]

Hope that helps to answer your questions, any more then post back.

Yes it does answer the question and thanks for the very comprehensive reply.  If I might push this a little further.....

In a domestic situation I'm assuming you would have something like the Cisco phones we have at the Uni.  If you had say one in the living room and (say) one in each bedroom, perhaps 4 in total, do these count as additional lines (= each with its own IP address) or does it function the same as analogue.  IE You pick up whichever phone is nearest to answer an incoming call?

As an alternative, say I had a Fritzbox which acts as a DECT base station and I believe (not sure) will route VOIP calls.  Does this then mean that there is only the one base station and you can reply to an incoming call on any of the DECT phones around the house or does this only work with analogue? 

I have a friend who is a freelance photographer.  Most of his calls are done via a mobile but I wonder whether something of this sort would be ideal for him, particularly as his wife remains at base and acts as sales/marketing manager.  The flexibility you get from a VOIP setup would be advantageous to them and probably cheaper as they already have fibre broadband. 

[MisterW]

or does it function the same as analogue.  IE You pick up whichever phone is nearest to answer an incoming call?

It's the same as analogue. All voip phones connected to the account will ring and the first to answer will get the call. I'm not sure how the Fritzbox works on DECT but I suspect it's similar to the Gigaset IP/DECT system I use. In my case the DECT base station is connected to the landline as well as configured for the voip account. I have 2 DECT handsets and can make calls from either via Landline or voip, via selection on the handset ( IP or FIXED line keys ) or automatically via a dialing plan. I can determine which handsets ring for landline /voip ( in my case both ). So in essence I have a single phone system which works on both landline and voip. I can make one outgoing landline call and two voip calls simultaneously ( well I could if I had 3 handsets! ). In my case I have the system setup to route all outgoing calls via the voip (except for 0800 , 999 & 1471) and then at weekends, when I have free landline calls, I just press the fixed line button before I dial. Since I have 120 min/month of free calls on my Plusnet voip account, in that way I very rarely pay for a phone call!.

[FritzBox]

Which VOIP service do you use?  AFAIK most are aimed at business users and unless you are a heavy home user, the costs outweigh the benefits compared to plain analogue.

Ooooops, Sipgate. No emails for me yet, tbh I very rarely use it or the landline the mobile does it all. I just wish I could have telephone line BB without paying line rental charges etc. Total rip off. No, I don't want Virgin thanks

[nowster]

Ooooops, Sipgate. No emails for me yet, tbh I very rarely use it or the landline the mobile does it all. I just wish I could have telephone line BB without paying line rental charges etc. Total rip off. No, I don't want Virgin thanks

I have Sipgate as my preferred incoming landline number as I get full CLI from it. Virgin Cable's CLI is not compatible with my ATA boxes (no line reversal). The sipgate number is not in the telephone directory but the number of the cable line (which has been the same since 1970) is. Guess which one gets the cold calls?

[Tacitus]

Had my 7390 over three years. Brilliant bit of one box solution kit. You don't have to connect your landline if you don't want to, I just use a VOIP phone with mine. They also have a 5 year warranty

They seem to be thin on the ground in the UK.  Looking at AVM's UK distributors, none of them feature the Fritz, their sites giving more space to Draytek, Technicolor etc, something which makes me wonder about backup if anything went wrong.  AVM need to look at their marketing in the UK or maybe they regard us as too small a  market to take seriously.

[Tacitus]

Had my 7390 over three years. Brilliant bit of one box solution kit. You don't have to connect your landline if you don't want to, I just use a VOIP phone with mine. They also have a 5 year warranty

If you don't mind me asking where did you get it from?  The official AVM listed resellers don't give it much prominence on their websites, neither do they seem to have much in the way of stock, which makes me think the after sales support is equally thin on the ground.  Unless that is you deal direct with AVM in Germany. 

I'm thinking particularly about firmware upgrades although many of the manufacturers are a bit slow about this - any router more than a couple of years old generally gets neglected.

[FritzBox]

Sorry missed this, got it from CCL The firmware updates are really good, had two this year. I'd have no hesitation in buying another one if I had to (fingers crossed)

[mervl]

Purely out of curiosity, has anyone on here used a Fritzbox?  Not sure it's a good thing to have a single point of failure for phone and broadband - assuming I used it as the point of control for DECT phones, but it does seem a good idea if they are reliable.

Have a 7390 running for around 4 years now on IDNet FTTC in UK, both for analogue phone (4 extensions which can all be controlled separately, with answerphone) and digital services, and VOIP. All reliable. Only issue has been 1. on and off phantom rings (say up to once a week) on the analogue phone, though for several months I can get none and 2. did have an issue with CLI on analogue on my poor line, which I cured by using its ability to redirect calls free to a VOIP line which was free for incoming calls (though I think Sipgate do not now take new residential subscribers). Many analogue users don't have either problem , especially not on good quality lines and the 7340 might well have better hardware, but is more expensive. Phantom rings were usually overnight so I can use settings to disable overnight calls or (as long as CLI is OK) calls from unknown or number withheld/blocked numbers, and block calls to some outgoing numbers too. All virtually eliminated unwanted callers. Need patience to set everything up; the on-line manual is good, to read it too before you buy, if you're thinking about it. Speeds as good as I can get on my line. Works well too with Androids on 2.4GHz and 5GHz frequencies if they have the capability, though 5GHz goes less distance - 2.4GHz here stretches to the end of the cul de sac. Really now I forget I have it, it's so reliable. Firmware is kept up to date. 7340 is better spec'd, but when will BT get around to vectoring, G-fast etc?

It provides other gimmicky functionality too like access by a compatible dongle back up for internet access and access to a connected media server, and remote access dial through. Though some of them can be a bit difficult to set up.

Expensive though, so perhaps for those with more money than sense. What do you need the all-in-one tech for?