Zen pings pong

[Sibe]

Hi

I'm on Zen at the moment, soon to be IDNet, tbh zen are a good provider always had good speeds etc and the quality of service quite good, my problem with them has always been ping; on many uk based counter strike source servers was not the best, and quite bad if you connected to a European Server, however this makes no difference if you not a gamer   my average being 35 - 40 uk,  70+ European so I'd thought i would give IDNet a try as i have heard good things, doesn't hurt to try so fingers crossed the service is as good if not better than Zen, if i can get lower ping without Loss then i would be well chuffed

all the best

       Simon

[Rik]

Welcome to the forum.

I'm not a games player, so pings aren't that significant for me. That said, even with interleaving on, I ping the BBC in around 22ms.

[Sibe]

Hi Rik

it's 32 for me, i know 10 Ms diff is nothing really to shout about, but it's still better 

[Rik]

Do you have interleaving on? It's reputed to add 20ms.

[Sibe]

na it's off Rik, i have a reasonably good connection, my exchange is just up the street I've added my router details below, sorry most of them i have now clue about



                  DSL Status:                                      UP             
                  DSL Modulation Mode:                      GDMT           
                  DSL Path Mode:                                FAST           
                  Downstream Rate:                             8128 Kbps           
                  Upstream Rate:                                 448 Kbps           
                  Downstream Margin:                         12 db           
                  Upstream Margin:                             26 db           
                  Downstream Line Attenuation:           19           
                  Upstream Line Attenuation:               7           
                  Downstream Transmit Power:            0           
                  Upstream Transmit Power:                0

[Rik]

D/s attenuation of 19db, sync at 8128 with 12db of noise margin. You should fly along with a profile of 7150 and throughput of ~6800kbps. I'm moving in - send me your address. 

[Sibe]

   only ping has been the problem Rik, download speeds has always been good, anyway should be hooked up with IDNet friday   so i guess i have to go through that 10 day break in period again, on that note should i always keep my router on as normally i turn it off some nights.

[Rik]

I've seen two schools of thought on migrations. My own experience was that I didn't undergo a new training period, I just brought my profile with me. I would expect you to be the same, it's generally LLU migrations that have to retrain, though as with anything to do with BT, there seem to be exceptions! 

IAC, I tend to the 'leave routers on' mindset, they are designed to be powered on continuously, and power consumption is minimal. OTOH, if you prefer to turn it off, it will do no harm - just avoid multiple disconnections in a short space of time, 10 or more per hour would impact performance.

[Lance]

As far as I know, the vast majority of migrations do not have to do the 10 day training period, when it is for the same BT package.

[AvengerUK]

Pings are fine with IDnet - always where when i used them!, UK servers used to ping around 15-18ms, and servers in Amsterdam around 24-28ms. Cant really get better than that!

(Note: This was on a fixed line, so no interleaving!)

If your migrating from a MAX package to a MAX package i dont think you will have to do the 10 day training period again.

[Sibe]

yeah it was a good clean change over   

if it says this in my router:     DSL Path Mode: fast      does this mean Interleaving is off? cos my ping has never really changed from being with Zen 

Tracing route to www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2    30 ms    30 ms    29 ms  telehouse-gw3-msdp.idnet.net [212.69.63.51]
  3    30 ms    31 ms    31 ms  redbus-gw.idnet.net [212.69.63.1]
  4    32 ms    30 ms    31 ms  www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]

Trace complete.


it's taking about 30Ms to get to telehouse-gw3-msdp.idnet.net    it's not really a big deal but would like to know if i can get those times down a bit, i live so close to my exchange i can see it, download speed is fantastic, but ping is not brill, just wondered if Interleaving is on..

cheers

[Lance]

DSL path mode: fast does indeed mean interleaving is off. I wonder if some tweaking of mtu and or rwin may help?

[Rik]

it's taking about 30Ms to get to telehouse-gw3-msdp.idnet.net

I believe that telehouse router gives low priority to pings, so the result is misleading.

[Sibe]

i've tried Jolt.co.uk and quite a few more, even on UK counter strike source servers my ping seems locked around 31 - 38 Ms strange.

it's not a problem though i guess, my MTU value is 1500  and my RWIN i have no clue about.

cheers

[Rik]

What do you get on pinging www.bbc.co.uk, or www.idnet.net?

If you're running XP, download TCP Optimizer from here. Try values of 1500, 1458 and 1430 to see what works best for you (leave the router at 1500 and only make the changes in Windows). Adjust RWIN to appropriate sizes, remember to turn on Windows scaling if needs be (RWIN >64K).

There's an FAQ here which may help.

[Sibe_V2]

Hi Rik, had to make a new account as i logged out forgot my password, and this forum never sent me a new password to my Hotmail address when i asked for it, about 3 times    never mind.

those pings for you:

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.224.126] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.58.224.126: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=250
Reply from 212.58.224.126: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=250
Reply from 212.58.224.126: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=250
Reply from 212.58.224.126: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=250

Ping statistics for 212.58.224.126:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 29ms, Maximum = 30ms, Average = 29ms


Pinging www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=61
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=61
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=61
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=61

Ping statistics for 212.69.36.10:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 30ms, Maximum = 31ms, Average = 30ms


my ping on most counter strike servers is about 32Ms    not that good really sometimes it's 42Ms don't understand why as i have a good line, very good download speeds.

Tracing route to www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2    30 ms    30 ms    30 ms  telehouse-gw3-msdp.idnet.net [212.69.63.51]
  3    31 ms    31 ms    31 ms  redbus-gw.idnet.net [212.69.63.1]
  4    31 ms    30 ms    32 ms  www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10]

Trace complete.

Tracing route to www.jolt.co.uk [82.133.85.65]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2    30 ms    30 ms    29 ms  telehouse-gw3-msdp.idnet.net [212.69.63.51]
  3    30 ms    32 ms    31 ms  g2-2-501.cr01.hx2.bb.pipex.net [193.203.5.14]
  4    30 ms    29 ms    29 ms  v3953.cr05.tn5.bb.pipex.net [62.72.137.29]
  5    30 ms    30 ms    30 ms  g1-1-6.ar01.tn5.bb.pipex.net [62.72.140.142]
  6    30 ms    30 ms    29 ms  ge-0-0-0-3801.jolt-gw.cust.pipex.net [212.241.24
1.14]
  7    30 ms    31 ms    30 ms  secure.jolt.co.uk [82.133.85.65]

Trace complete.


always seems about the same 

have also tried TCP Optimizer on different settings, more or less the same no matter what i change.

thought i would be in the 20 - 30ms ball park not 30 - 40

cheers

[DorsetBoy]

Off topic but so you know,Hotmail puts all forum emails in the junk folders ,if they allow it through at all.

[Sibe_V2]

cheers DorsetBoy i think that must of been the problem..

[Rik]

It was. Hotmail lets the forum mails through, but blanks them. If you have a POP3 facility there, you will be able to read them OK. It's better to use another mail service for the forum, therefore. If you want to revert to your original account, let me know and I'll reset the password manually and email the new one to you.

Back at your pings, I can't explain them. Here's mine to the BBC:

ping www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.224.116] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.58.224.116: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=251
Reply from 212.58.224.116: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=251
Reply from 212.58.224.116: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=251
Reply from 212.58.224.116: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=251

Ping statistics for 212.58.224.116:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 20ms, Maximum = 22ms, Average = 20ms

That's with interleaving on, and the speeds are typical for me.

There's no congestion on the IDNet network, but I wonder if you have a congested exchange. Try putting your phone number into the checker here:

http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/

If that shows green, and the pings are consistent, then have a word with support to see if there's anything they can suggest.

[Sibe_V2]

Hey Rik thanks for reply

Been in contact with support, tried a few different MTU sizes but none really gave me much difference, not sure whats up really as i get no where near your Latency.

[Rik]

I can't think of anything else to suggest, except... could you borrow a router to see whether that helps?

[Sibe]

Hi Rik, cheers i have changed back over to this account, so you can delete the Sibe_V2 account if you wish.

Do you think a Router would make a difference to ping?
i am using a Linksys AG241 - 4 Port ADSL Modem Router, what would you say is a much better router non wireless.

cheers

[Rik]

I won't delete the account, as it would also delete the posts, but I will lock it.

I honestly don't know whether the router might be implicated in the ping issue, but if you can borrow one from somewhere, it would be worth a try as a possible cause. The 2-wire 2700 HG or HGV are good (though wireless), or you could try a Netgear DG834. Even a USB modem if you have one, just to eliminate the existing router as a possibility. (Usually, pings can be helped by MTU/RWIN tweaks, so I'm puzzled that yours can't. )

[MoHux]

Sibe, you say that your MTU is 1500 ........ I take it you mean the MTU in Windows (or any O/S).

Check your router MTU is set to this also.

The router MTU must always be the same or higher than the computers.  Otherwise lag is caused while the router de-fragments packets.

HTH

Mo

[Rik]

Good point, Mo, thanks.

[Sibe]

cheers Rik & Mo

I Have them both set to 1500, it's not really a problem as such, i just like to know why it's a little higher than others considering i have really great download speeds etc and it seems fixed around the 30 - 33Ms, not to worry i guess, might try another Router sometime but no rush..

cheers

[Rik]

TBH, I'd be interested to know too. Apart from exchange congestion, I can't think of a good reason.