Effect of bad weather

Adrian · Dec 12, 2017, 11:22:31

Normally my FTTC connection is very good, and being only a couple of hundred metres from the cabinet I get maximum sync up and down.

However, whenever we get windy and/or heavy rain I repeatedly lose sync. I have a suspicion that the problem lies in the final length of copper wire from the telephone pole to my house and I would think the copper pair dates back many decades as it isn't even a twisted pair. Most of the copper between the poles has been replaced in recent years so while I wouldn't rule it out, I think it unlikely to be the cause. There is also a simple joint at the point where the pair gets to the house at facia board level and I wonder if that could be the problem. I have tried quiet line tests at various times and there is no noise that I can hear but of course there could be transient noise that only occurs at the point when I lose sync.

All the internal wiring is Cat 6 Ethernet cable and the master socket is right at the point where the copper pair enters the house above the front door - this usually puzzles BT engineers but we will say no more about it (cough). The cat 6 is wired in behind the socket.

What is the chance that IDNet would be able to get this investigated or would they just be fobbed off by OpenReach?

zappaDPJ · Dec 12, 2017, 12:09:09

I had the same problem, losing sync due to poor weather conditions. My experience having reported it was that it's not considered a fault. However I monitored the line and kept a record of every loss of sync and the weather conditions at that time. Once I was absolutely convinced there was a direct correlation I started reporting every loss of sync.

OpenReach did eventually come out and my drop wire was found to be circa 1966 and somewhat worse for wear. Unfortunately for me the pole end was on private property to which they had no access

It took months but I did get a new wire which cured the problem. What happened during those months was worthy of a Monty Python script but that's a story for another time.

In short, my advice is to log it, be sure of the nature of the problem and be very persistent.

Adrian · Jan 03, 2018, 16:11:34

Well, I have an interesting tale to tell of outstanding support from IDNet. With all the recent wind and rain my line has been losing sync quite a lot so on 29th December I bit the bullet and called IDNet. The call was taken by Richard who went through all the usual questions with me and said he would look into it. Shortly afterwards I received a call from Jason and he sounded quite surprised when he looked at my connection log over the Christmas period and said he would do a line check which came back clear.

Anyway we agreed that I would keep a log and I was inevitably asked to plug my modem directly into the master socket, which I did even though it was a pain as the master socket is some way from my router and modem which is normally plugged into an extension socket connected to the master socket with Cat 6 Ethernet cable and hard wired to the back of the master socket. I ran like this for a day or so until I lost sync again before moving everything back to its rightful place.

I spoke to Jason again yesterday and agreed to try a spare router just to eliminate the remote possibility that the router was the problem, though I can't see how it could be, but it would keep BTOR happy. He also suggested that I should phone support as soon as I lost sync so they could run another line test even if it was the middle of the night!

As you know yesterday was a tad damp and breezy, especially overnight and I ended up losing sync at such a rate that my line was down longer than it was up. I decided that although it was 23:15pm I would try ringing support and to my amazement the phone was quickly answered by, I think, Simon who said he would run another line test and call me back as I had to hang up for the test to be done. So, I waited until about a quarter past midnight but did not receive the call and assumed that I had perhaps misunderstood so went to bed. I had just dozed off when the phone rang at a quarter to one and It was Simon to say the test had revealed a possible earth fault and would I mind removing the master socket faceplate so they could test again with nothing connected in the house. I nipped downstairs and quickly did as instructed.

Jason called this morning and told that the fault had been referred to their wholesaler for investigation as there was clearly a fault on their side of the master socket.

I just now have to wait for BTOR to investigate, find the fault and fix it, but no doubt they will claim there is nothing wrong despite the evidence. Even so I am very impressed with the response from IDNet, especially in the middle of the night. I know that matters are now out of their hands but that is another matter.

Thanks Richard, Simon and Jason

Simon · Jan 03, 2018, 17:05:36

Good to hear!

Tacitus · Jan 04, 2018, 14:00:09

I too have received excellent service from iDNet over the holiday period.

As some of you that have been on here for some time will probably know, I act as tech support for my sister. Needless to say I got a phone call over the holiday to say that her broadband kept going down and could I have a look at it.

So I rang iDNet and I think it was Simon who answered. He could see from the logs that the line was losing sync but since the line was a BT line (another story!) he couldn't run tests. We agreed she should contact BT to run tests on the line and that Sis would keep a log of when it went down. Also since I was due to visit her I'd check things over and we'd review it accordingly. I also took a spare modem just in case.

Next day I received a phone call from Jason checking on the current position. Said I'd checked wiring, BT reported no fault and that I'd swapped the modem and so far things looked OK, but we agreed iDNet would monitor the line; if she had any more problems we'd give them a ring. Meantime I'd checking over the old modem and came to the conclusion that the power supply had probably gone bad causing intermittent problems.

After a couple of days I rang to say the line appeared to be performing OK with the replaced modem and if they could just check the logs, all being well we could close the ticket which we did.

Now my tale is nothing like Adrian's which should be more widely publicised say on TBB, but put together with mine I get the impression that support are really giving great service and well deserve all the plaudits that come their way.

So, my thanks also to Simon and Jason - a great demonstration of first class support and, in Adrian's case going above and beyond.

EDIT: Just to add. In another 3 months Sis will have been with iDNet for 10 years. She joined just ahead of me as I'd lumbered myself with a 12 month contract with Demon.

FURTHER EDIT: If Miriam or Simon read this, how about a 10 year anniversary commemoration mug?

J!ll · Jan 04, 2018, 14:38:17

That is why I stay with them! Rarely have to bother them. Glad your problems have been sorted

Simon · Jan 04, 2018, 14:40:06

Gosh, doesn't time fly! It pass me by, but my 10 year 'anniversary' was last July!

I remember joining IDNet at a time when ISPs were coming and going at quite a rate, and it was difficult to know if the one you joined would be there the following week. It was Rik who convinced me that IDNet was a good choice, and how right he was.

It's great to hear positive comments for a change, as often, we only get to hear on here when things go wrong.

nowster · Jan 04, 2018, 14:48:11

I moved my parents to idNet back in Autumn of 2009 after Zetnet (which I'd run for the best part of 14 years) went *foomp*.

Tacitus · Jan 04, 2018, 15:23:59

Quote from: Simon on Jan 04, 2018, 14:40:06
I remember joining IDNet at a time when ISPs were coming and going at quite a rate, and it was difficult to know if the one you joined would be there the following week. It was Rik who convinced me that IDNet was a good choice, and how right he was.

Sis was originally with Pipex - they and Demon were two of the best around at the time. Pipex got taken over and the final straw was when it all went bad and she found herself dealing with the dreaded overseas call centre.

It was Rik who convinced me iDNet were a great choice and although there were a couple of hiccups at the start she's only had one significant problem that involved BT/OR and that was sorted without any difficulty. At the time it was a toss up between iDNet and Zen and iDNet had a marginally greater allowance. Once my Demon contract ran out I too signed up and have stayed ever since. Yes they've had their problems in the past some of which shouldn't have happened, but overall I've always been satisfied.

Quote from: Simon on Jan 04, 2018, 14:40:06
It's great to hear positive comments for a change, as often, we only get to hear on here when things go wrong.

Yes and it's why I think Adrian should post his comment on TBB and probably ISP Review to reach a wider audience. On TBB in particular, they're good at slagging ISPs off (occasionally deservedly), so something to redress the balance would be good.

J!ll · Jan 04, 2018, 16:56:01

Quote from: Simon on Jan 04, 2018, 14:40:06
Gosh, doesn't time fly! It pass me by, but my 10 year 'anniversary' was last July! I remember joining IDNet at a time when ISPs were coming and going at quite a rate, and it was difficult to know if the one you joined would be there the following week. It was Rik who convinced me that IDNet was a good choice, and how right he was.

It's great to hear positive comments for a change, as often, we only get to hear on here when things go wrong.

I can't remember when I joined but found this on the dashboard. Paid 27/05/2006 that is as far back as I can go.

Adrian · Jan 04, 2018, 23:20:32

I first joined IDNet for broadband in 2008, phone services in 2009. I have migrated my broadband away a couple of times for different reasons and not for long, and somehow always end up coming back. I think IDNet offer a very good deal with fair prices which, while a bit higher than the mass market ISPs, are not outrageous and the support is well worth the extra.

Adrian · Jan 22, 2018, 17:02:24

With the help of IDNet an external fault has been confirmed and today the man with the Open Reach van turned up to investigate. He prodded and poked, checked all the internal wiring, which passed muster as I knew it would. He then used his TDR (Time domain reflectometer) which indicated a fault about 100 metres away. This was followed by going outside and eyeballing from the ground all the joints on the two or three poles and on my house.

Despite the TDR indicating a fault 100metres away he got his ladder out and remade the joint where the drop wire arrives at the facia board, sadly to no avail .This was hardly surprising given the TDR result and the fact that the remade joint was actually quite well protected from the weather.

Anyway, the end result is that he is going to get the entire wire run replaced between the house and several poles back towards the cabinet, hopefully tomorrow, but we shall have to wait and see. At least OR now own the problem.

zappaDPJ · Jan 22, 2018, 18:08:21

If it's tomorrow I presume can do it without a cherry picker. When they did mine it took them months to find one and when they did they decided to bring it along on one of the few days there was nobody at home

I wish you the best of luck

Adrian · Jan 22, 2018, 20:57:36

Quote from: zappaDPJ on Jan 22, 2018, 18:08:21
If it's tomorrow I presume can do it without a cherry picker. When they did mine it took them months to find one and when they did they decided to bring it along on one of the few days there was nobody at home

I wish you the best of luck

It does require a cherry picker but Mr Open-Reach still reckoned it would be tomorrow unless there are problems with the road. I suspect they may need to apply to local authority for temporary lights so I won't be holding my breath. Fortunately, Mr O-R said it wouldn't matter if I wasn't at home when they arrived, but obviously I would need to be available for final testing - I presume so anyway.

nowster · Jan 22, 2018, 22:49:38

My parents have the opposite problem. Their line goes bad during dry weather and around an hour after sunrise and an hour around sunset. It's rock solid during mild wet weather. Unfortunately, there's about 2 miles of pole run before it goes underground for a further 2 mines, and many many junctions on the way.

Clive · Jan 23, 2018, 11:07:39

My internet was down from late yesterday evening until this morning and I wondered if the bad weather might be responsible. This building is only 12 years old but we live in a very harsh environment right on the sea front and corrosion is a big problem. Had I known that IDNet were up and about at 10.30 I might have given them a ring. My router is around 8 years old - it's a Netgear and I wonder if it's past its use by date.

Adrian · Jan 23, 2018, 11:57:26

Quote from: Clive on Jan 23, 2018, 11:07:39
Had I known that IDNet were up and about at 10.30 I might have given them a ring.

They do have a 24 hour line but I thought it was very limited in what was available, maybe just log the fault for the day crew. I was very surprised when I rang at about 11:15pm to have the phone quickly answered by one of IDNet's own support staff, and then offered a line test and call back. I was even more surprised to get the call back at a quarter to one in the morning!

Clive · Jan 23, 2018, 12:16:15

I don't think Mrs Clive would have appreciated a call at that time Adrian.

Clive · Jan 23, 2018, 20:49:51

My connection failed again mid afternoon and I spoke to Jason and then Paul at ID Net to ask for assistance. They suspected some noise on the line and asked me to perform a quiet test on 17070. There was a slight intermittent hiss with one phone but the internet had returned by then anyway. They were going to undertake some other tests so the case remains open.

Adrian · Jan 23, 2018, 23:24:15

Further to my visit yesterday from Mr Open-Reach when he told me they would need to replace the line, I had a call from IDNet to say that Open Reach had decided the fault had been fixed. So, I suppose I will have to wait for more heavy rain to prove it one way or the other, but I suspect this is just OR's way of kicking the can down the road. Apart from the individual engineers from whom I have always had great service, BT/OR always has been and continues to be the most despicable company.

zappaDPJ · Jan 24, 2018, 00:55:49

Quote from: Adrian on Jan 23, 2018, 23:24:15
Further to my visit yesterday from Mr Open-Reach when he told me they would need to replace the line, I had a call from IDNet to say that Open Reach had decided the fault had been fixed. So, I suppose I will have to wait for more heavy rain to prove it one way or the other, but I suspect this is just OR's way of kicking the can down the road. Apart from the individual engineers from whom I have always had great service, BT/OR always has been and continues to be the most despicable company.

They kept doing that to me in addition to making multiple appointments to replace the line which they did not keep. As I said before you'll need to log and report every outage. Once they work out you won't give up, they should replace your line.

Gary · Jan 24, 2018, 08:22:11

Quote from: Adrian on Jan 23, 2018, 23:24:15
Further to my visit yesterday from Mr Open-Reach when he told me they would need to replace the line, I had a call from IDNet to say that Open Reach had decided the fault had been fixed. So, I suppose I will have to wait for more heavy rain to prove it one way or the other, but I suspect this is just OR's way of kicking the can down the road. Apart from the individual engineers from whom I have always had great service, BT/OR always has been and continues to be the most despicable company.

Most OR engineer notes never make it back, its a common thing. I know a OR Engineer, a personal friend who has worked for them for thirty years and he says no matter how comprehensive the notes after the report is filed most of the information seems to get stripped out before it reaches the ISP and there is nothing the engineers themselves can do about it.

nowster · Jan 24, 2018, 11:08:31

That combined with their ISO9001 compliance being "we don't document wiring in cabinets"...

Adrian · Jan 24, 2018, 11:34:18

Well, guess what. It's windy and it's raining and I am now losing sync every few minutes. IDNet are on the case with Open Reach.

I have come to the conclusion that BT must be founder members of the flat earth society given the way they are in total denial about the technical facts on their network. Of course it could just be a case of them sticking their corporate fingers in their ears, and shouting La La La, I can't hear you!

Clive · Jan 24, 2018, 13:49:06

I would put British Gas in the same category as well as most house developers.

Adrian · Jan 24, 2018, 13:51:58

It's been a fun morning. I get a couple of minutes of a time when I can do something on t'interwweb
https://www.amazon.co.uk/clouddrive/share/ikXmqUTwQLUmNZZiLj1obv6ZnWp2VqR3dCOn7wB2TNm/dqLLDIdtSYeuJm-pl3T9AA?_encoding=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0&mgh=1
I don't know why image links aren't working either.

jaydub · Jan 25, 2018, 08:31:29

Quote from: Adrian on Jan 24, 2018, 13:51:58
It's been a fun morning. I get a couple of minutes of a time when I can do something on t'interwweb
https://www.amazon.co.uk/clouddrive/share/ikXmqUTwQLUmNZZiLj1obv6ZnWp2VqR3dCOn7wB2TNm/dqLLDIdtSYeuJm-pl3T9AA?_encoding=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0&mgh=1
I don't know why image links aren't working either.

Jeez. That's awful. Any further progress?

Adrian · Jan 25, 2018, 08:43:02

IDNet are trying to arrange another engineer visit.

Gary · Jan 26, 2018, 08:58:17

Quote from: nowster on Jan 24, 2018, 11:08:31
That combined with their ISO9001 compliance being "we don't document wiring in cabinets"...

They don't even fix battery faults any more, they are told to find a new pair, battery faults don't effect broadband HR faults do. I lost 7Mbps because I'm now on a cr*p pair because they moved me for a bang on the nose 5 volt battery fault that you could not even hear, its not idnet's fault they have to report it but it was not the cause a few years back of my single thread speed issues

That was a a lot to loose in one hit, and with no way to get it back.

Adrian · Jan 26, 2018, 13:38:10

I have just had a call from IDNet support saying that the engineer who came last Monday didn't put in his notes that there was a fault. I rather suspect that his boss removed the information from his notes, but I can't prove that. So, we are now back to the position that if I have another engineer visit and they find nothing wrong I may get stung with a big bill, or wait until it rains again and try and get IDNet to do a line test while the dropouts are happening so they can then raise it with OR.

This is utterly ridiculous and while I know IDNet's hands are tied, that is no good to me. I think I will fire off a grumpy, but polite e-mail to the CEO of Open Reach, a ploy I have used with considerable success with other companies.

nowster · Jan 26, 2018, 15:36:05

It's well known within BT circles that "No Fault Found" is part of their performance related pay gambit. Faults are strikes against someone's performance stats, so engineers are encouraged not to report any being present. I got that (albeit over 10 years ago) direct from a BT account manager who was an ex-linesman.

Adrian · Jan 26, 2018, 15:43:46

Quote from: nowster on Jan 26, 2018, 15:36:05
It's well known within BT circles that "No Fault Found" is part of their performance related pay gambit. Faults are strikes against someone's performance stats, so engineers are encouraged not to report any being present. I got that (albeit over 10 years ago) direct from a BT account manager who was an ex-linesman.

I am not surprised by what you say. Anyway, e-mail sent to CEO

steve195527 · Jan 26, 2018, 15:51:23

hadn't realised you had emailed the bt chairman!!

Adrian · Jan 26, 2018, 17:50:11

Quote from: steve195527 on Jan 26, 2018, 15:51:23
hadn't realised you had emailed the bt chairman!!

I have had a reply too!

Dear Adrian,

Thanks for your e-mail. Clive's been in a series of meetings today so I'm responding on his behalf to avoid further delay.

I'm really sorry to hear you have an intermittent service.

I've opened an Openreach Exec Case for us to investigate this further (Cxxxxxxx). I've also flagged to the General Manager for this area and asked that we get someone out on this as soon as possible. They'll be in touch to arrange a date (likely to be next week now).

If there's anything else in the meantime, don't hesitate to getting back in touch.

Best wishes,

Mark

Mark Jolley
Directors Service Office Customer Resolutions
Openreach
Mobile: 0xxxxxxxxxxx
Web: www.openreach.co.uk

steve195527 · Jan 26, 2018, 18:50:09

I had an issue for over 2 years that wasn't being resolved, I emailed the CEO and the chairman, after then issue was fixed within 3 weeks of one of them replying saying they had passed the issue on to head of the dept who fix things in my area who actually phoned me as I had given my number in the original email,once you get them moving Openreach are pretty good,its just there seems to be a lot of inertia to overcome to actually get them moving in the correct direction

Adrian · Jan 26, 2018, 19:02:51

Quote from: steve195527 on Jan 26, 2018, 18:50:09
I had an issue for over 2 years that wasn't being resolved, I emailed the CEO and the chairman, after then issue was fixed within 3 weeks of one of them replying saying they had passed the issue on to head of the dept who fix things in my area who actually phoned me as I had given my number in the original email,once you get them moving Openreach are pretty good,its just there seems to be a lot of inertia to overcome to actually get them moving in the correct direction

I hope I am as fortunate. I still hold IDNet in high regard, they are as much victims of Openreach as we are.

Adrian · Jan 27, 2018, 16:26:02

Things move fast, just received an e-mail (Sunday!) from the general manager of the Southeast area confirming they will be on the case. Interestingly, he said they were having trouble pulling up the engineer's notes.

Adrian · Jan 27, 2018, 17:42:29

Oops, today is Saturday!

Adrian · Jan 29, 2018, 15:00:18

Monday 29th January 2018, 15:00.

Entire overhead line has just been replaced with shiny new cable. I just need some heavy rain now to test it.

jaydub · Jan 29, 2018, 17:19:01

Excellent news. Or at least I hope it is. I'm sure you will get appropriate test conditions very soon, what with the British weather.

zappaDPJ · Jan 29, 2018, 18:17:24

steve195527 · Jan 30, 2018, 10:34:51

like I said contact the right folk(the boss basically) and they get a move on lol,you shouldn't have to though,how many folk get poor service just because they don't know how to rattle the cage!!?

Adrian · Jan 30, 2018, 10:55:48

Quote from: steve195527 on Jan 30, 2018, 10:34:51
like I said contact the right folk(the boss basically) and they get a move on lol,you shouldn't have to though,how many folk get poor service just because they don't know how to rattle the cage!!?

I couldn't agree more, though I like to give normal channels a fair chance first, and of course it always pays to keep the e-mail to the boss polite but firm - ranting usually gets you nowhere. After the work was finished I had a call from an Openreach manager who gave me his direct number with instructions to call if I had any further issues.

I have always found individual BT engineers and indeed managers very obliging, but they are hampered by the corporate structure. I also feel sorry for IDNet and other ISPs who try hard to do the right thing by their customers but run into the same brick wall time and time again. I hope that now Openreach is at least notionally an independent company we will see a more pro-acative engagement with the end users.

steve195527 · Jan 30, 2018, 11:22:22

did you ever find that even if the engineer told you the work hadn't been completed and would arrange a further visit that then openreach told the ISP you use,who you have to contact regarding faults!!)that the work was complete and the fault fixed??
PS I have the head of repairs for our area stored in my phone now on his advice!

Adrian · Jan 30, 2018, 13:37:19

The engineer told me he would arrange for the line to be replaced and when he was here yesterday he said he couldn't understand why they had not progressed it.

Clive · Feb 07, 2018, 10:55:03

My internet connection went down yesterday afternoon and I had a very intermittent connection all evening. My router is a DG834G if anyone here is old enough to remember them.

I'm considering FTTC 30 Mbs so would obviously have to buy a new router such as the Billion which is £63. Would the Billion work with my current ADSL2+?
Would I be better off biting the bullet and getting the 55Mbs FTTC?

Clive · Feb 07, 2018, 19:28:01

OK, well I can see from the website that the Billion 8800NL will support ASDL2+ as well as FTTC. My cabinet is the other side of the road which means it's pretty close so I should get near to the 80mbs max. I've experienced intermittent problems again today with no connection yet the modem lights seemingly fine. Rebooting the modem solves the problem but it might suggest the modem is becoming faulty?

Adrian · Feb 07, 2018, 20:45:13

Quote from: Clive on Feb 07, 2018, 19:28:01
OK, well I can see from the website that the Billion 8800NL will support ASDL2+ as well as FTTC. My cabinet is the other side of the road which means it's pretty close so I should get near to the 80mbs max. I've experienced intermittent problems again today with no connection yet the modem lights seemingly fine. Rebooting the modem solves the problem but it might suggest the modem is becoming faulty?

When I first got FTTC I bought a Billion 8800AXL and it worked very well. Ultimately I bought an Asus AC88U router and configured the Billion in bridge mode so it only acts as a modem. Billion kit had, and probably still does have, a very good reputation for being tenacious on difficult lines.

Clive · Feb 07, 2018, 20:58:23

Thanks Adrian, the advice is much appreciated.

Adrian · May 01, 2018, 11:54:45

Well, it is some weeks since my line was finally replaced and I can confirm that it seems to have fixed my problems. The weather yesterday was the ideal test with strong winds and torrential rain and I am pleased to report that my internet connection remained rock solid throughout.

Simon · May 01, 2018, 11:57:44

Good to hear!

zappaDPJ · May 01, 2018, 13:08:39

Good to hear

Technical Ben · May 02, 2018, 14:54:40

Quote from: Adrian on May 01, 2018, 11:54:45
Well, it is some weeks since my line was finally replaced and I can confirm that it seems to have fixed my problems. The weather yesterday was the ideal test with strong winds and torrential rain and I am pleased to report that my internet connection remained rock solid throughout.

Well, glad someone like the weather!