iDNET to Migrate Entire UK Phone Network to All-IP with BT

[Postal]

Posting at 00:57.  Thanks to Storm Arwen our homebase in a mobile-free zone has been without power since 18:22 yesterday and no timescale for re-connection.  Not sure that OfCOM's policy of a one hour back-up actually meets the needs of a rural mobile-free community where many of the residents are in vulnerable categories when we go copper-free (which I suppose equally applies to our day-to-day access to law enforcement).

[john7]

No is the simple answer to that. With the storm last night we have a elderly friend in the village we used to live in who has no mobile reception and the power was off from late evening until (the power  people said) nearly 4am this morning. Our old house in the village was in the same position, engineers from BT used to be despairing when running tests, (it took them years to fail to sort out the problem) sometimes if we/they went ½ down our garden (on a steep slope so not ideal in the dark or bad weather) you would get a reception. Go further and it would be lost, but likewise other times you would get nothing. The smart meter people would turn up to houses and go away again as at that stage they used mobile communion to provide the link. The whole village was like it as were others further into Wales which is a disaster for mobile reception (friend there thought it funny that a TV police  series had them using mobiles out in the country/hills, when he said the town the police station was in didn't have reception in many parts of it let alone the country side around.   

[Postal]

To close off my whinge the power was off from 20:22 (typo in original post) on Friday 26th. November until 19:39 on Sunday 28th. November.  During that time people with wired handsets could maintain contact using their landline.  When the copper goes, it is difficult to see how contact can be maintained over a power outage of that length.

Even if we had mobile reception, we would have had problems.  The adjacent areas are served by two mobile towers which handle different networks (i.e. there is no overlap of coverage on the same network).  The outage went on for long enough to exhaust any power back-up system on the tower used by O2 as they were advising that they had lost service in our wider area earlier on today.

[john7]

Its a major problem is many areas. Some round us, Monday Morning are still off and reporting, on Facebook, they have been told midnight tonight. The frend went back late yesterday, no mobile signal so she wouldn't have to worry about keeping a phone charged! The power problem is poor reliance due to under investment over the years. When we were in the village the network people improved the problem of regular power cuts but admitted they could bring power in from two supplies to strengthen supply but it would be too expensive.  With global warming the weekend storm will be repeated more often so the firms should make their systems more secure but at present they are more driven to increases profit rather than security. Instead rely on the hard work of the engineers having to repair the out of date system all the time. This includes the changes BT are making driven by rising there proffite not the needs of those who use them.

[stan]

They've got from now to the end of 2025 before they switch off the landlines as we know them. 

There was an article on the news this morning covering the unfortunate people who continue to have no electricity following Storm Arwen. It was said that the companies suppyling and/or reinstating failed supply relied to a considerable extent on landlines to have contact with customers.... particularly those who have no mobile coverage.... either because the mobile provider isn't providing cover to their area or because the customer's mobile phone has a flat battery and can't charge it.

It crossed my mind that Storm Arwen might, just, give Openreach and/or BT  something to consider before switching the landlines off.

If I had the solution I would (a) be happy to publish it here ... and (b) be a very rich man.

I haven't studied the matter in enough detail to know what other countries have done to overcome the problem but assume they've found a way of maintaining the essential communications that looks likely to be problematic in the UK if they do switch the landlines off before the country is good and ready.

[Simon]

I've no idea what telephone systems other countries operate on.  Are they largely copper wires, like the UK, or have other countries already adopted a different system?

[robinc]

They've got from now to the end of 2025 before they switch off the landlines as we know them.......

It crossed my mind that Storm Arwen might, just, give Openreach and/or BT  something to consider before switching the landlines off.

If I had the solution I would (a) be happy to publish it here ... and (b) be a very rich man.

a) would probably preclude b) 

[john7]

In many places the phone masts were out of action due to loss of power, we have had that where we currently live.

[Simon]

In many places the phone masts were out of action due to loss of power, we have had that where we currently live.

Wow, that's a scary thought with no phone line either.  We tend to lose our water supply when the power goes off, which is something to do with the local booster pump, so I'm told.  Can't imagine what it must be like for the people who have had no power for over a week now. 

[john7]

Indeed, when the mobile mast went down at lest we could use our phone line with the BT fibre change over it will need smoke signals or maybe semaphore masts on all the houses to pass on messages in areas likely to get power cuts or not having mobile reception!

[Simon]

It beggars belief that they could allow a situation to develop when one potentially couldn't call the emergency services by any means.

[john7]

But it creates profits for BT and other providers by removing the social support side of the network and passing responsibility to individuals to deal with it themselves. Even if there is no chance of any one replacing in many areas that lost support in emergencies. In addition there will be a more reliable network for BT (giving plenty of prospects to get rid of skilled engineers). You only have to look at how fast they are doing the changeover compared anything BT has done in the past! The profit potential is attracting buyers looking to take over BT.

[Clive]

This is a worrying development but we have all seen it coming for the past four years.  It's the reason I bought myself a decent mobile phone in recent months.  3G is being phased out anyway.   

[john7]

No use with no reception or masts down!

[Postal]

. . .we have all seen it coming for the past four years. . .

But that's the root of the problem.  Most people (even now) have no idea about what is coming.  We are currently away on holiday and at our dinner table tonight none of the other 4 guests were aware and two who lived in a mobile free area were horrified. They live in Rishi Sunak's constituency and planned to raise it with him which may mean there is a chance of getting a higher profile for the problem.

[Clive]

I was not referring to the general public because they don't know about it.  I only found out because my son bought a new build property in London that was only kitted out for VOIP.  So have you escaped to sunnier climes Postal?  I've been away in the Canaries where the rain was warmer.  Very enjoyable all the same. 

[zappaDPJ]

Half of our area lost power for the best part of a day this week. We were OK but coincidentally had no 4G coverage with two different providers for the duration. Was it a coincidence or do these masts take their power from the grid with no backup supply?

[robinc]

Half of our area lost power for the best part of a day this week. We were OK but coincidentally had no 4G coverage with two different providers for the duration. Was it a coincidence or do these masts take their power from the grid with no backup supply?

No need for a backup supply as people have a landline that doesn't need power.

[zappaDPJ]

Indeed

[Postal]

So have you escaped to sunnier climes Postal?

Not really sunnier as we spent 4 nights on one of those big gin palaces that cruise the Rhine.  Had to fill in a multitude of forms and have hard copies or copies on the phone but only one was actually inspected and are now sitting locked in the house waiting for the results of the tests we had when we got off the Eurostar at St. Pancras.  A lot of hassle but glad we did it as we have been going stir-crazy while our CoVid has limited our horizons.

[Clive]

Sounds wonderful to me!  It's been a lot of faff with all the documentation and we are still waiting for our PCR test results after a week in unnecessary quarantine. 

[Postal]

Lateral Flow Test 14:30 Thursday on the ship so we could travel back to UK.  PCR tested at St. Pancras 17:45 Friday.  Negative results received 01:30 Sunday so we are now free again (subject to the next whim from Boris or charlatan driven decision from Ferguson).

[Postal]

Looks like media are starting to recognise that there are a disadvantaged few in dangerous circumstances: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-59564480.

[peasblossom]

If it pokes BT into thinking through how best to switch and help people properly in a power cut that will be good. Not feeling confident about that one but we'll see. Maybe more media coverage of the issue will focus their minds?

[Clive]

Lateral Flow Test 14:30 Thursday on the ship so we could travel back to UK.  PCR tested at St. Pancras 17:45 Friday.  Negative results received 01:30 Sunday so we are now free again (subject to the next whim from Boris or charlatan driven decision from Ferguson).

We are still waiting today!