iDNET to Migrate Entire UK Phone Network to All-IP with BT

[sparky]

How's this going to work then for private individuals with a broadband and private phone line deal with idnet? 

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/11/isp-idnet-to-migrate-entire-phone-network-to-all-ip-with-bt.html

[Simon]

First I've heard of any of this!  I had no idea BT were ending the analogue networks. 

[Clive]

This has been on the cards for several years.  My son bought a new build house in London in May 2017 and the phone is IP only. 

[Simon]

So, what's the difference?

[Clive]

Quality basically.  You still get a phone number as we did with VOIP but it's a poor quality line.  As it's internet based, there are no phone charges.  I understand that BT plans to scrap the exchanges within the near future. 

[Simon]

So, does that mean we will have to change our phone numbers?  I don't want to.   

[robinc]

So, no more line rental charges then???

I must admit I'm puzzled there's been no communique from Idnet to its customers yet.

[sparky]

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the rural farmers with no mobile coverage and 2 Mbs ADSL then !!   

[robinc]

I dropped IDNet a line and have received a very helpful explanation of the story so far. I think their long term proactive approach speaks volumes..

"Openreach has been committed to moving to an all-IP infrastructure for the past 10 years and that included moving all voice services to non-copper delivery. A date for final shutdown of the voice on copper (VoC) will be Dec 2025. So the drive for this has come from the UK infrastructure provider not from ISPs such as IDNet.

All ISPs including BT Retail, PlusNet, Sky,TalkTalk are subject to the same retirement plans.

With the increasing footprint of full fibre broadband i.e. FTTP, the reliance on copper infrastructure will start to wane and there will be no requirement to install copper cabling on new builds or deployments.

So for clarity voice on copper (VoC) is being retired but not necessarily the copper line that currently delivers the voice service which will be used to deliver data-only services for those services traditionally delivered on copper.

With regard to the present time how this affects current users depends on the circumstances.

    Current VoC users with ADSL and FTTC – exchanges across the UK have either stopped providing VoC (there are already a handful) or have been issued with stop-sell notices after which time no VoC will be available. FTTC users will need to convert to a new data on copper service called SOGEA and where ADSL is the only option there are plans to provide an alternative data only service – how the latter will work has not been fully defined by Openreach as yet.

    Phone numbers currently on VoC will either need to be migrated to a VoIP service such as our Centrex IP telephony solution or the numbers will simply be released back to the range holder to be retained – the reality being if they are not ported to VoIP they will be lost.

    There will be circumstances where for operational reasons support for an analogue voice service for data transmission via dial-up - care service, alarm i.e. non-voice support will be needed and these we have been told will be assessed on a case by case basis.

    For new installations unless a voice service is needed now and the exchange is not subject to stop-sell then for FTTC, SOGEA will be provided although FTTC with PSTN can be ordered but will cost more than SOGEA. At some point before 2025 any users will be forced to move to SOGEA.

The migration is happening slowly hence the 4 year lead time and we have been looking at options since the start of 2020 to make sure we have chosen the right, most robust and cost-effective options available to offer our users. A lot of ISPs have simply not appreciated the work and planning involved in preparing for VoC retirement and how it will impact their operation whilst with early planning we believe IDNet is positioned perfectly to deal with this challenge. In the New Year we will start informing users of stop-sell dates and VoC retirement on an exchange by exchange basis."

It looks as though my Billion 8000 NL 2 does not have an ATA port so I'll have to get an adapter which is annoying. I guess they will have factored in scaling for the VOIP service - now, if they could also sort a decent SIP app to go with it life would be a lot easier.

[sparky]

I wonder how many home user/landline contracts idnet have?

The Centrex IP solution is a business solution. It will be interesting to see if idnet eventually drops its home/landline users and forces us to go elsewhere or whether they develop a financially viable solution for the home user. There seems to be very few VOIP solutions for the home user at the moment. The odd few that do exist get terrible reviews for service. Cost wise it will have to be equal to or less than existing landline rates.

I see that the first PSTN Exchange to go Stop/Sale is Salisbury at the end of December.
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/wlrwithdrawal/stopsell/stopsell.do

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/wlrwithdrawal/wlrwithdrawal.do

Interesting Stuff!

[nowster]

The only reasonable VoIP provider I've found for residential use is www.sipgate.co.uk. You can operate a number as incoming only for free as long as it gets one call every few months.

[Simon]

So, at the moment, there's nothing in place for residential landlines users to switch to?  What happens to the elderly, and others not on the internet, who rely on telephone communications?

[Postal]

So, at the moment, there's nothing in place for residential landlines users to switch to?  What happens to the elderly, and others not on the internet, who rely on telephone communications?

And what about emergency calls where there is no mobile signal?  We currently keep an old wired telephone in the house as we are in a rural location with no mobile signal and have a power cut every two or three months when something brings the power lines down.  If we plug the wired phone in to the copper network we can still communicate with the outside world.  This will not be possible through the ONT and fibre network while Opemreach are supplying ONTs without Battery Back Up units (and even if they do supply ONTs with BBU how long will the battery last)?

I first raised this with IDNet support on 24/10/19 and got this response:

"It will more than likely be a VoIP based solution I would have thought, however we are unsure at this moment time as we are waiting for further information from Openreach, once a plan is properly formulated it will be made aware to our customers via our site and newsletter."

[Simon]

And, does this mean all ADSL customers will have to switch to 'SOGEA'?  I know this isn't happening right now, but as this is the first I've heard of any of this, it's come at a bit of a shock!

[gizmo71]

I would happily swap my landline (which is never used) for more bandwidth at the same or less cost.

No doubt OpenReach will find a way to make it worse rather than better for the increasing numbers of us who only have a landline because they can't get broadband at sensible prices without one.

[robinc]

And, does this mean all ADSL customers will have to switch to 'SOGEA'?  I know this isn't happening right now, but as this is the first I've heard of any of this, it's come at a bit of a shock!

".........where ADSL is the only option there are plans to provide an alternative data only service – how the latter will work has not been fully defined by Openreach as yet."

[robinc]

I wonder how many home user/landline contracts idnet have?

The Centrex IP solution is a business solution. It will be interesting to see if idnet eventually drops its home/landline users and forces us to go elsewhere or whether they develop a financially viable solution for the home user. There seems to be very few VOIP solutions for the home user at the moment. The odd few that do exist get terrible reviews for service. Cost wise it will have to be equal to or less than existing landline rates.

I see that the first PSTN Exchange to go Stop/Sale is Salisbury at the end of December.
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/wlrwithdrawal/stopsell/stopsell.do

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/wlrwithdrawal/wlrwithdrawal.do

Interesting Stuff!

We're not that far from Salisbury so I'm keeping an eye on local media for any hiatus 

WRT Centrex....my guess is that we would be offered a VOIP connection on their system at the same cost as current landline rental.
However, there may be lower tier reseller/providers who just will not be getting involved in VOIP directly. I would like to hope they will not just be throwing their customers to the wolves when it comes to telephony - but who knows.

Obviously there are a number of VOIP solutions out there, keeping your current landline number could be a timing issue if you decide to go elsewhere so best done before switch over.
Also switching to VOIP also requires the abilty to configure it, understand it and be prepared to fight with another layer of service provision for something which used to just work.

[robinc]

So, at the moment, there's nothing in place for residential landlines users to switch to?  What happens to the elderly, and others not on the internet, who rely on telephone communications?

This is going to be the interesting area - and of course add in those places that do not have broadband or mobile access.
Where the new ADSL product - whatever that will be - is possible then I guess that cutomers will either have to ante up the cost of an upgrade (or maybe they'll get it free with a 0.5mb speed limit or other QOS throttling so it's voice only). Then they'll just need a router and an adapter - and I would suspect that we'll see the arrival of an all in one phone/adapter/router before long - and plug in.
Where there is no broadband of course the 'answer' is that either they can 'use a mobile', or that one the broadband everywhere initiatives will have provided cover in time for the switch over.....but when neither is possible.......
Platforms are being erected to ensure maximum observation of porcine aviation

[robinc]

The only reasonable VoIP provider I've found for residential use is www.sipgate.co.uk. You can operate a number as incoming only for free as long as it gets one call every few months.

I have had a sipgate account for some years but never really bothered with it. I think now is the time to try out a few options. OK it'll cost £10 a month for a proper calls package but that's rolling monthly - and right now we're saving money on fuel anyway.

I'll dust off an old mobile and try a couple of apps - Acrobits looks promising as it seems to offer protection against battery drain. Zoiper is another contender as it looks like Sipgate uses Zoiper anyway.

Another option is a £30 ATA adapter, plug in the simple handset phone and see what happens. That looks like it needs a bit of configuring somewhere along the line but should help ease lockdown boredom.

[Den]

This sounds very good until you have a power cut and then you would lose the facility to make an emergency call out just like you lose your broadband. 

[robinc]

This sounds very good until you have a power cut and then you would lose the facility to make an emergency call out just like you lose your broadband. 

Methinks a small UPS may be needed...

[Simon]

Whatever happens, no doubt it will cost us extra money just to retain a service we've always had, and most of us see no need to change.

[gizmo71]

This sounds very good until you have a power cut and then you would lose the facility to make an emergency call out just like you lose your broadband. 

My router and modem share a UPS with a server so that's not a problem for me. :-) As for emergency calls, my mobile is far more convenient as it's virtually always within immediate reach. I would guess the latter is true of most people these days...

[Postal]

My router and modem share a UPS with a server so that's not a problem for me. :-) As for emergency calls, my mobile is far more convenient as it's virtually always within immediate reach. I would guess the latter is true of most people these days...

But that's the problem isn't it.  There will always be some areas that do not have mobile signal (in the same way that there are some areas that do not have adequate broadband).  There has to be some way for people in those areas to maintain emergency contact.  In our area we have no mobile signal and can expect at least one electric outage of 12 hours or more per year so it would have to be quite a beefy UPS to maintain connection for that length of time.  Who is going to pay for that in our area where there is a significant proportion of our population living on the basic pension?

It is only a little pinprick in the overall scale of things but quite important to our community.

[Simon]

I really don't like the way technology is going.  You won't be able to buy a car that will go more than 35 miles without a six hour charge after 2030, and now they want to make telecommunication impossible for some!