iDNET to Migrate Entire UK Phone Network to All-IP with BT

[pctech]

I haven't really studied the implications of the switch off because it probably won't effect me in any negative way. My rather limited understanding is ADSL & FTTC are also being switched off so I'm hoping it'll lead to better quality, more affordable broadband. I really don't need a land land for voice calls.

What did occur to me is aside from power outages, how often the replacement service will go down for other reasons. As far as I recall I've only had one loss of voice line in the last 20 or so years but during that time my broadband has gone down hundreds if not thousands of times, usual at night so probably due to maintenance. If that remains the case, it really doesn't bode well for those without mobile phones or people living in a mobile dead spot.

I've only seen the PON light on my ONT go Red (meaning no light on the fibre for anyone unaware) about 4 times since it went live in January 2018 and this has been around 12.30-1 a.m. but it has gone for a good 15-20 minutes.

In my own case it prompted me to stop watching Netflix and go to bed but if you did have something like a fall/care alarm dependent on that for an elderly or vulnerable person that's a heck of a long time when a lot could happen.

I would hope ofcom puts pressure for dual signalling paths in these devices before the copper is taken away along with sufficient battery.

[nowster]

My parents are likely to be on overhead copper ADSL for many years to come, with 4Mbps on a good day.

[sn]

IDNET has been a bit quiet about this since their fanfare announcement. 
Curiously  FTTP  has recently been removed from my upgrade options
Three neighbors have already had fibre installed. Not sure which ISPs.
It will be interesting to see what IDNET's FTTP+Phone upgrade packages cost.
I guess some sort of VOIP adapter would have to be part of the deal?

[zappaDPJ]

This is becoming an amusing trend. If your unattainable targets are attainable then reduce them until they become attainable...

The government has announced the first stages of its plans to get superfast broadband to the majority of homes in the UK.

Originally it had promised to roll out gigabit-speed broadband to every home in Britain by 2025 but that was reduced to 85% coverage in November.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56414966

From the same article...

Now that money is beginning to flow, but with Openreach's chief executive emphasising the need for speedy decisions, it seems there's not complete confidence that even the more limited target will be hit.

[zappaDPJ]

Six months have elapsed since this topic was first posted along with a few other threads and the only thing that seems clear to me is nobody has a definitive idea of how this will pan out. We don't even know if phone numbers are to be consigned to history let alone the impact on current ISDN/PSTN technology.

[john7]

I have been watching for information as they have laid fibre outside our houses. Interested as none of us have power or much space where BT originally installed (in the late 1970 early 1980's) the master sockets (by front doors and no power socket near). We are all underground cabled (I am told not in conduit) which should be interesting on both counts. There are many original residents which means they are in there late 70's (as I am) or well into their 80's. This results in a lot of personal and house alarms which if to be kept going in power cuts (there are few here but the only big one since I moved here 3 years ago lasted for nearly 2.5 hrs)would I expect be safest with a form of UPS. Which after the big power cut I have one on my modem and routers as well as others on PC and NAS. Some can deal with this and have the space to do so (if the fibre if installed to a new location to the existing master socket). But to expect many elderly residents to deal with this or the minimal BT fibre box (that provides a limited power back up using rechargeable batteries) from the experience of our parents as they aged to maintain them will be beyond the ability of many just as they may well be more dependent on alarms.
The switch over is progressing at some speed. Now BT can smell big profits its getting a move on compared to how it introduced faster broadband. But there is as yet NO information on anything available.

[Gary]

Alas my village is not on the list for FTTP until 2026. by then I probably wont even care about Fibre tbh. I'll just use a 5G folding iPad or some such magical contraption. My only concern is my careline, but they can probably do a GSM variant I believe, or they will have a new super all singing and all dancing unit that does not need a dial tone but that a person ion their 80's and me in my sixties by then will understand. Its bad enough that I feel like a dinosaur already with some of the new tech which looks more like things designed to empty pockets rather than being useful.

[zappaDPJ]

Its bad enough that I feel like a dinosaur already with some of the new tech which looks more like things designed to empty pockets rather than being useful.

It's not just me then. The new tech curve seems faster than ever. Either that or my batteries are running down

[Simon]

I think we're all getting that way!   

[robinc]

I think the way this is going to work is that BT will be issuing an updated router that incorporates a VOIP phone jack in advance of the cut off.

This will allow push updates for the VOIP config, so that if you decide to continue with a conventional handset/landline number you'll pay more and they'll just configure it for you. Gosh - I wonder if it will cost the same as a landline today? That would be a surprise wouldn't it?

For the rest of the world, I guess it's the old DIY job. Quite frankly I'm gobsmacked at the lack of publicity about this, esp remembering all the noise when analogue TV was switched off.

The bit about VOIP that is of concern is that you have to register the number with the emergency services - presumably before you need them!

[zappaDPJ]

Quite frankly I'm gobsmacked at the lack of publicity about this, esp remembering all the noise when analogue TV was switched off.

Likewise which is why I'm still somewhat sceptical about the time frame involved. Personally I haven't used our land line to make a call for many years and I'll be glad to see the back of it but the other half of this household needs it because the mother-in-law doesn't have a mobile and can't afford to call our mobiles.

I suspect at least 90% of the population will barely notice the change while the other 10%, who may well be vulnerable in some way, struggle and have to pay more. So nothing new there then!

[Gary]

My careline makes calls, IO dint I use my iPhone. Unlimited Calls and Textx make life so much easier, as well as unlimited data and 5G. All for £20 a month.  EE messed up and I'm glad I got that sim only deal, I wont be changing anytime soon to another company unless unlimited 4G and 5G gets really cheap. The thing is so many older people use landlines, and careline technology is progressing slowly as usual. EE I think are turning off 3G in 2023 (smart meters will have fun when they all turn off 3G) its all going so fast its crazy but I have hit my own brakes.

I keep up with new phones, its my only vice, my iPhone 12 pro is great and its cheaper to sell each year and get a new one than leave it for years but I'm sure even that will stop. I'm bored of new tech, the only thing I added was a Arlo Pro 4 camera for my security and that connects straight to Wi-Fi thankfully. MY Netgear RAX120 router has PMF (protected management frames) so nobody can knock out 2.4G (that's what the camera uses) If they try to jam the camera and they cant get into my LAN either, but still Ive reached a point where I'm happy with what I have and that seems to be a downfall as tech is accelerating so fast (still cant get a PS5) before you know it you are blinking at whatever the hell it is you bought wondering what you do with whatever the hell you just bought, and wondering who told you it was useful in the first place.

[Clive]

My main mobile is a 3G Samsung which I'm told will stop working next year.  I do have a 4G Motorola which is not at all easy to use for receiving phone calls but apps seem to work OK.  It's now on its last legs and I'm thinking of splashing out on a Samsung A21s for £154. 

[Tacitus]

iDNet are already doing domestic VoIP via Centrex home.  They aren't advertising it since apparently there is a supply chain issue with analogue TAs though most users have given up their old analogue stuff and to moved to IP based kit.

Ex-vat price for Centrex Home is £12.50pm on a 2yr contract including all UK call, single number port and either an IP desktop phone or IP-DECT or an ATA.  If you go for a desktop IP phone, it also needs a PSU at £14 and there is shipping of £10.

I can see why they're going this route as they obviously want to avoid people using random kit bought off flea Bay with all the attendant support issues. 

If you're a heavy landline user I could see this being appealing.  A 40/10 sogea line costs £30 ex vat with another £12.50 ex vat for the phone and all calls.    There is a price increase in there compared to the current all-in price: £51/month inc vat compared to £44.40.  I guess that's the price of progress and it does mean you avoid a lot of the support problems with a DIY setup.

[Simon]

At last!  Something on the BBC about this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58233420

[zappaDPJ]

At last!  Something on the BBC about this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58233420

That makes for an interesting read, much of which is at odds with my current (admittedly limited) understanding. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.

Incidentally everyone without exception I've spoken to about this has given me an old fashioned look and I've had to resort to a frantic Google for backup. It seems to be a rather well kept secret!

[robinc]

That makes for an interesting read, much of which is at odds with my current (admittedly limited) understanding. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.

Incidentally everyone without exception I've spoken to about this has given me an old fashioned look and I've had to resort to a frantic Google for backup. It seems to be a rather well kept secret!

There was bit in the Daily Fail the other day as well, so hopefully word will start to get around.

[L2020]

That makes for an interesting read, much of which is at odds with my current (admittedly limited) understanding. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.

Incidentally everyone without exception I've spoken to about this has given me an old fashioned look and I've had to resort to a frantic Google for backup. It seems to be a rather well kept secret!

The BBC article seems to imply Openreach are transitioning to VoIP, but as I understand it Openreach are not moving to VoIP, they are just stopping the sale and supply of PSTN and becoming a data only provider, so will stop doing any form of voice call service come 2025 and will not offer a VoIP product.  It will be down to the ISP to supply a voice service using VoIP to their own specification.  At this stage Openreach are involved in the various switch over trials, but they are not supplying the VoIP service, this is the reason why the analogue voice socket on FTTP ONTs are no longer used, and you end up with a second place to plug in a phone on the ISP supplied router.

I too am sceptical this switchover will be achieved by 2025 given the lack of public awareness, and this is different to digital TV.  Digital TV had the lure of more channels and better picture quality so there was an incentive for people to upgrade and at around the same time flat screen TVs and DVDs were becoming popular meaning people had a reason to spend and then got by default digital ready TVs.  There is absolutely no incentive for anyone to move a landline to VoIP.  Despite claims of "HD Voice" on VoIP I've yet to hear anything sounding any better.  Pricing isn't that much cheaper, reliability will only be worse given a lot more to go wrong, there will be compatibility issues to sort out (alarm systems and so on), and new kit to install, all to get something not really as good as what someone already had.  It will be an uphill struggle I think.

[Simon]

I listen to a lot of radio, and when people phone in, nine times out of ten, the voice quality of the caller is appalling.  I'm not sure what new technology they are using, but callers using a basic phone always sound better.

[Terryphi]

This is in the BBC report caught my eye:

Old landline phones will still work after the network changes, however.
Handsets will not need replacing either - existing phones will be connected to a different system behind the scenes.

Does this mean that ISPs will try to sell us VOIP kit or services which we will not necessarily need?

[john7]

Interestingly our exchange, Oswestry, isn't listed. But the main Shropshire paper was reporting some time ago we and other small towns were to be trial areas and indeed fibre has been installed (not to houses) over much of the town now. On the BT site it listed us as being 2025 so it could be fibre is to sit there for years, someone was telling porkies to or were invented by the local paper?

[zappaDPJ]

This is in the BBC report caught my eye:

Old landline phones will still work after the network changes, however.
Handsets will not need replacing either - existing phones will be connected to a different system behind the scenes.

Does this mean that ISPs will try to sell us VOIP kit or services which we will not necessarily need?

I could be wrong but I can't help feeling the majority of people who will need the most additional kit will be those that can least it afford and many of them probably don't understand what's about to happen. At this point in time, I certainly don't.

In my view this change necessitates a visit from an OpenReach engineer to every home prior to switch off along with the kit required to facilitate the change to any existing service, all provided free of charge.

[peasblossom]

Unless I've missed it, we're not on the long list either. (The FTTP stop sell. You can find it by clicking through the links in the BBC news article.) This is a decent sized city. We do have a lot of City Fibre work going on here so maybe that's got something to do with it?

[zappaDPJ]

I have no answers but this appears to suggest in order to switch off PSTN, every line will need to be fully FTTP.

The programme will mean homes and businesses won't be able to buy copper broadband if they are upgrading, regrading or switching telecoms provider, and instead will only be able to order fibre-to-the-premises (FTTP or full-fibre) broadband networks – and voice services will be an add-on to broadband rather than a service in its own right.

https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252500643/Openreach-extends-analogue-phone-programme-switch-off-to-further-700000-homes-and-businesses

[dlorde]

I switched to FTTP with IDNet today (Faversham, North Kent), and changed my landline number to VoIP. I bought a VoIP adapter to keep my old phone setup (which includes a TrueCall call blocker) and ported my old number.

Using Sipgate's VoIP service on PAYG, there's no line fee, and as I rarely called out on the landline, it's almost free (although it cost £30 to port the old number). Dropping the landline fee means I'm getting more than twice the old speed (going up to Ultrafast Basic at ~160mbps) for roughly the same cost.