iDNET to Migrate Entire UK Phone Network to All-IP with BT

[zappaDPJ]

Unsurprisingly BT have halted the removal of landline phones after discovering that the most vulnerable are unable to call 999. It has admitted to underestimating the disruptive impact of their policy.

I'd post a link but so far this news has not found its way beyond a paywall.

[Simon]

I think it was inevitable they would have to delay it.  For a start, there's not been nearly enough publicity or information about it, given that it's all supposed to be happening within the next three years.

[Simon]

With apologies...   

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10661981/BT-throws-lifeline-landlines-bosses-suspend-digital-rollout-customer-backlash.html

[Bill]

A more reliable source:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/9188-bt-consumer-announces-pause-of-digital-voice-roll-out

[robinc]

In other words they hoped to just get away with it, but they've been caught with their hands in the cookie jar and so must now pretend to be seen to be doing something about it - but all their solutions suggested are still just sticky tape and bailing wire - when the fit hits the shan the same people will still be stuck without a phone when it is most needed.
Road - Kick - Can ...........

[Postal]

In other words they hoped to just get away with it, but they've been caught with their hands in the cookie jar and so must now pretend to be seen to be doing something about it - but all their solutions suggested are still just sticky tape and bailing wire - when the fit hits the shan the same people will still be stuck without a phone when it is most needed.
Road - Kick - Can ...........

+1

[Gary]

+1

Glad they stopped for now but people still need to get prepared. I went SOGEA because I have no need for a dial tone and my careline works over 4G which is better quality sound wise as it uses VoLTE, the old unit sounded really awful compared with the new unit.  If people get prepared and get a VoIP adaptor 'ATA' to plug into their routers, and I'm sure many router manufacturers will jump on this bandwagon anyway then your Dect phone should work just fine with whatever VoIP provider you choose. Get a cheap UPS to plug it in, a stepped approximation to a sinewave model would be fine for this type of thing and your router and modem if separate and Dect phone will keep going if the power drops.

The thing is this takes time to set up and extra cash and many would need help, and I know a few people without broadband who would be stuffed if this had gone though. The thing is it will happen at some point, many providers don't easily give you an option for a dial tone now with a new broadband line or if you switch ISP so people need to be careful and make sure they get a dial tone with any new ISP unless they can get by using a mobile. Once again though some people don't even have one, or like using them. This whole idea was dumb really but I imagine providing 48 volts to each household for a landline probably costs a fair amount and prices are rising so fast in the energy world now  . Maybe BT has decided to increase prices or something as a way of making money out of this dilemma! Sadly that would not surprise me in this day and age.

[Simon]

I listen to quite a lot of radio, and when callers call in using various internet phone services (such as VoIP, Facetime, Zoom, etc), the call quality is usually pretty poor, with frequent drop outs and calls being lost.  I hope that when this new service is eventually rolled out, the call quality will improve. 

[john7]

There was a BBC report that I regret I haven't  been able to re find  that said in the majority of phone problems they have are over internet ones. Indeed the appalling sound on so many reflects this. The other thing I noticed is the attempt to pass the problem onto the elderly, any age was being adversely effected by this BT money grab. The problems affecting those pushed onto fibre were not age related in the storms or power cuts from other causes. You do not have to be old to lose mobile signal when they go down or don't exist. It will be interesting to see what they will do with the people already on fibre who had no choice over it.

[Gary]

There was a BBC report that I regret I haven't  been able to re find  that said in the majority of phone problems they have are over internet ones. Indeed the appalling sound on so many reflects this. The other thing I noticed is the attempt to pass the problem onto the elderly, any age was being adversely effected by this BT money grab. The problems affecting those pushed onto fibre were not age related in the storms or power cuts from other causes. You do not have to be old to lose mobile signal when they go down or don't exist. It will be interesting to see what they will do with the people already on fibre who had no choice over it.

I agree totally many areas don't have a signal but if you have broadband you can use Wi-Fi calling if your phone supports il (not all of course) I have several APC sine wave UPS's so can use Wi-Fi calling if the power goes out for about 4 hours, although if I lost broadband too that would be it and anything over 4 hours would be the end of that. I think critical cell sites would have backup power, I know mine does as when the power goes out the mobile signal stays up but thats not going to be the same for every mast, infrastructure was not updated to make sure there were fail safes for the removal of dial tones. 

People are not being pushed onto Fibre really, though its much more stable than FTTC and you have no crosstalk (im down to 49Mbps from 63Mbps when FTTC was first put in) and it offers symmetrical connections, as upload is as important as download for many these days. Also as devices get more hungry for data, in a house with a reasonably large family with say two 4K TV's tablets phones and the myriad of devices that seem to have Wi-Fi for no reason like fridges and washing machines  fibre just offers more bandwidth. Sadly it feels like having a dial tone for those that need it was not considered important. I know we have to move with the times but it does help if the advances actually make sense.

[Gary]

I listen to quite a lot of radio, and when callers call in using various internet phone services (such as VoIP, Facetime, Zoom, etc), the call quality is usually pretty poor, with frequent drop outs and calls being lost.  I hope that when this new service is eventually rolled out, the call quality will improve. 

I have to say I cant recall never had a poor FaceTime call voice quality wise Simon, but other factors like like network dropouts and people gaming in the background can cause issues thats for sure on all of the video service but touch wood I can talk and see clearly with most people in most parts of the world with decent clarity most of the time but there will always be exceptions.

I use 5G for mine sometimes but even with my broadband it works well, then again FaceTime uses less data than some other services like Zoom or Skype or Microsoft Teams. VoIP can be affected by a firewall setting called 'SIP-ALG' most VoIP providers ask to turn that off if there are issues, it does make a difference. Its often how much bandwidth is available to the caller and how well their line behaves too and how good their equipment is, there are so many variables. I mean if you have loads of people using the broadband in a house and you can't get a decent 4G or 5G signal set the routers QoS to prioritise upload streaming which is also useful for Wi-Fi security cameras etc too (and gamers) and maybe reduce the amount of bandwidth the gamers are using as they tend to try and hog it all where as most games only need about 1mbp, I game myself and know via few forums given half a chance some of the less savvy gamers try to give their devices 100% of what's available bandwidth wise  Some routers do allow you to alter what each device gets manually so you can stop them and other data hungry devices hogging all the bandwidth.

4G calls sound great using VoLTE because 4G/5G has more bandwidth and it if your phone is new enough will use high definition calling, but a landline gives you the certainty your call works which is the big catch for many, its simple and pretty reliable.

For myself I use the mobile all the time and spending even a few pounds extra to have a dial tone was not worth it in the end. That's fine for myself but not for other people who are in black spots etc for all connections or who just want to use a landline, but most people I know use Dect phones which unless you have a UPS die in a power cut anyway. This whole debacle needs a major rethink. 

[Postal]

People are not being pushed onto Fibre really, though its much more stable than FTTC and you have no crosstalk (im down to 49Mbps from 63Mbps when FTTC was first put in) and it offers symmetrical connections, as upload is as important as download for many these days.

Symmetrical connections on the alt-nets but not BT infrastucture.  The BT offer seriously restricts upload speeds; the current BT retail premium offer (Full Fibre 900) should give the full 900 Mbps download but the upload is capped at around 100 Mbps.  The slower options have the upload speeds similarly capped pro rata to the download speed.

[Simon]

I'm currently trying to remotely help someone set up two 'Cloud' phones, and it's like the blind leading the blind. 

So, the main confusion seems to be how to actually connect the phones to the router, if the router isn't in the same room as the phones.  Would a powerline broadband extender, such as this one do the trick, and could both phones then be connected to the same extender?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07J652QRY/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_88HGHGVTB8B5F86RK4C4

Also, the phones have come without power supplies, and the user has been advised that these are not needed as the phone will take its power from the Ethernet connection.  Does this sound right, and will this still work via a powerline extender?

The 'Cloud' service is due to be activated on the 13th, and we are assuming at that point that their existing landline service will be deactivated.  So, they would obviously like to get things sorted by then.

[robinc]

Scratching my memory cells I recall that a PoE device will require a switch/router that provides PoE - not normally a feature of domestic kit.

[Simon]

Not sure what router they have.  The phones are Poly VVX 250.

[Bill]

If the router doesn't have POE (and it probably doesn't) you should be able to use a POE injector.

[Simon]

It would probably be easier just to get the optional PSUs for the phones.

[Bill]

It's usually preferable as well as easier, but an injector can be useful if there's a shortage of mains sockets at the desired location, awkward wiring layout etc.

[Simon]

I think I can guess the answer to this, but I'll ask it anyway.  If the router DOES have PoE, would that transfer to the powerline extender?

[Bill]

A question in your Amazon link suggests it it would if you use the right cables (8-core?), but I've no experience of PoE (and no recent experience of powerline kit) so I don't really know

[Bill]

ps

A closer read of the question and your post leads me to suspect it wouldn't work in the way you want to use it (it sounds like a different configuration to that in the Amazon question) but again, I don't really know, sorry

If it were me I think I'd go the safe route, get the mains adapter for the phones and, if it looked too untidy or whatever,  think about PoE at leisure!

[Simon]

That's OK, Bill, thanks anyway.  I've no experience of all this either, and now BT have back pedalled on the VoIP rollout, I don't intend to have for a while. 

The people I'm trying to help unfortunately signed up to the new cloud phone service a day before the BT announcement, by which time it would have been a hassle to cancel it, and of course, what could possibly go wrong? 

I've suggested they order a couple of PSUs for the phones, on the assumption that PoE won't be an option.  I think the router itself may well support it, but the router is in a different part of the house to the phones.

[Bill]

now BT have back pedalled on the VoIP rollout, I don't intend to have for a while. 

Similar here, in my case my trusty old Nokia 3310 mobile phone has been showing even more signs of age than me, so I've updated to an iPhone 12... that's enough new tech to get my head around for a while 

[Simon]

I've just been informed the router is a Technicolor DGA0122.  Looking at the stats, it appears to have 2 FXS ports for phone or fax, but I've no idea if that means they are PoE, and I would assume, if they were, the phones would need to be connected directly to them.

[Bill]

If I've understood this article correctly (not guaranteed!), the FSX ports "replace" the old analog phone socket, they're not Ethernet. There's also this:

Note: The analog phone line passes approximately 50 volts DC power to the FXS port. That's why you get a faint "shock" when you touch a connected phone line. This allows a call to be made in the event of a power cut.

I think that's a bit more than PoE provides, and might be unhealthy for any network equipment plugged in to it