A Few More Questions...

[Simon]

Hi Guys,

I have now requested my MAC key from Pipex, and am awaiting it's arrival by email, although, why they couldn't just tell me on the phone is beyond me.  If I get it by Friday, which is what they have promised, I have 30 days to invoke it, so I will be looking at around the middle of September to switch.  IDNet are my current favourites, despite providing no webspace, and operating a smaller capped download limit than I could get elsewhere.  Your reputation for speed and reliability appears to be excellent, and these positives outweigh some of the smaller negatives for me.

However, before I make my final decision, I do have a few more questions, if I may:

1. On the 60Gb Home SuperMax package, there is a 300Mb off-peak cap.  Does this off-peak cap also apply to the 30Gb Home Max package?

2. Would my BT line automatically be 're-trained' if I migrate to IDNet?  I have heard of instances where, after migration, users can get 'stuck' at the old line rate from their previous ISP.

3. I would prefer a dynamic IP address.  Is this issued by default, and if not, can it be requested?

4. Are the monthly payments taken by direct debit?

5. I have researched other ISPs, only to find that there are possibly mergers or sell outs on the horizon.  Are there any prospects for changes such as these on the cards for IDNet in the foreseeable future (I mean, forward at least 2-3 years from now)?

6. Not an easy question to ask, but I have to ask it, and I don't mean anything by it, but, what if IDNet suddenly disappears off the face of the planet?  How would users 'escape' in the worst scenario, should they be unable to get a MAC key?  This has happened to me when I used to use dial-up, but obviously, it's didn't really matter then, as you could just move on elsewhere.  This isn't quite the case with broadband.

Sorry for the interrogation.  If all these answers are positive, you'll probably have yourselves a deal. 

[Rik]

Hi Simon

This is a user forum, so you will need to contact IDNet directly to get the 'official' answers. I'd normally point Simon (one of the MDs) at your post, but he is on holiday this week. That said, here's my crack at your questions.

1. On the 60Gb Home SuperMax package, there is a 300Mb off-peak cap.  Does this off-peak cap also apply to the 30Gb Home Max package?

Can you clarify what you mean. Home SuperMax has a 60GB limit with 15GB of that available during peak hours. Not sure where the 300MB is coming from...

2. Would my BT line automatically be 're-trained' if I migrate to IDNet?  I have heard of instances where, after migration, users can get 'stuck' at the old line rate from their previous ISP.

Re-training is not normal on a max-to-max transfer. A stuck profile can be taken up with BT (by IDNet).

3. I would prefer a dynamic IP address.  Is this issued by default, and if not, can it be requested?

To the best of my knowledge, IDNet does not allocate dynamic IP addresses.

4. Are the monthly payments taken by direct debit?

Not yet. Payment is by electronic transfer, standing order or CCA on a card. DDs are imminent.

5. I have researched other ISPs, only to find that there are possibly mergers or sell outs on the horizon.  Are there any prospects for changes such as these on the cards for IDNet in the foreseeable future (I mean, forward at least 2-3 years from now)?

No-one is likely to be able to answer this.

6. Not an easy question to ask, but I have to ask it, and I don't mean anything by it, but, what if IDNet suddenly disappears off the face of the planet?  How would users 'escape' in the worst scenario, should they be unable to get a MAC key?  This has happened to me when I used to use dial-up, but obviously, it's didn't really matter then, as you could just move on elsewhere.  This isn't quite the case with broadband.

Hopefully, Ofcom would get involved should such a situation occur. I doubt very much that it would, though, IDNet has always been a very ethical company and, if things were that bad, I am sure they would seek to find a way to help their customers. As with 5, though, no-one can really predict.

[Lance]

Well, Rik beat me to it, but I'll post my answer anyway!

1. On the 60Gb Home SuperMax package, there is a 300Mb off-peak cap.  Does this off-peak cap also apply to the 30Gb Home Max package?

No. The 30GB can be used whenever you want.

2. Would my BT line automatically be 're-trained' if I migrate to IDNet?  I have heard of instances where, after migration, users can get 'stuck' at the old line rate from their previous ISP.

The vast majority of migrations do not get retrained. Profiles are unrelated to the training period anyway!

3. I would prefer a dynamic IP address.  Is this issued by default, and if not, can it be requested?

I'm not sure about this one, could ring support for a definitive answer. One thing I'll point out is static IPs are normally 'safer'.

4. Are the monthly payments taken by direct debit?

At present it is a choice between standing order or recurring credit card charge. Direct debits are on the way however.

5. I have researched other ISPs, only to find that there are possibly mergers or sell outs on the horizon.  Are there any prospects for changes such as these on the cards for IDNet in the foreseeable future (I mean, forward at least 2-3 years from now)?

As far as I know, there isn't any rumors or anything. Mind you, a lot of take overs happen within 6 months in the ISP sector so thinking as far away as 3 years is near impossible.

6. Not an easy question to ask, but I have to ask it, and I don't mean anything by it, but, what if IDNet suddenly disappears off the face of the planet?  How would users 'escape' in the worst scenario, should they be unable to get a MAC key?  This has happened to me when I used to use dial-up, but obviously, it's didn't really matter then, as you could just move on elsewhere.  This isn't quite the case with broadband.

In the worst case it would be a case of cease and reprovide which takes a few of weeks. However, I think BT have stepped in a couple of times in the past to give MAC codes for a transfer within 3-10 working days.

Hope this helps Simon

[Simon]

Thanks to both of you. 

Hmm....

1. Sorry, must have got that confused with another ISP.  Some offer increased downloading limits during off-peak times.

2. OK, but how would I know if I had a 'stuck profile'?

3. I have always used a dynamic IP.  Not sure why, but I thought it might be useful to change it once in a while.  In your opinion, Lance, why are static IPs 'safer'?

4. Fair enough.  Standing orders are fine.

5. Fair comment.  It was probably an impossible question to answer.

6. Thanks for the reassurance.

I have to say, there appear to be quite a few less 'features' offered by IDNet, when compared to other ISPs, such as webspace, choice of dynamic IP, off-peak usage benefits, automatic line re-training (not sure how much that matters), but for some reason, I'm still more than tempted.

I'll be honest, and say it's a choice at the moment, between IDNet, Firefly, Aquiss and NDO.  NDO offer a 60GB capped limit, for the same price as IDNet, but I have noted speed and reliability is not as good as NDO, according to ThinkBroadband, and there are also rumours of a take over by the Italian company DaDa.  I don't like being 'taken over', hence Question 5.    Firefly offer much the same as IDNet, but with the additional benefit of 250MB of free webspace.  Despite their slightly outdated website, I am really impressed with what they offer, but I prefer the @idnet.com email addresses, although webspace would be extremely convenient.  Aquiss offer 100MB of webspace, and a 300GB off-peak download limit (30GB peak), and are very strong contenders, but for the complicated email addresses provided.

I hope this type of post doesn't cause any offence.  I'm not trying to play one off against the other.  It probably doesn't matter a jot to IDNet whether little old me joins or not, and you have every right to tell me to "bugger off and join someone else then!".  It's just nice to voice my thoughts, and get other's opinions, although I know you will all rate IDNet as tops!   

[Rik]

Hi Simon

2. OK, but how would I know if I had a 'stuck profile'?

Broadly, if your IP profile was not correct for your sync speed. There are some ifs and buts attached, namely you have to have had a stable sync speed at the higher rate for five days or more.

3. I have always used a dynamic IP.  Not sure why, but I thought it might be useful to change it once in a while.  In your opinion, Lance, why are static IPs 'safer'?

Lance will tell you his reasons when he's next in. My own view is that before I came to IDNet, I had a dynamic IPA, and would regularly see my router reporting probes. Since having a static IPA, I haven't seen any probes. My IPA hasn't been taken anywhere risky by another user.

4. Fair enough.  Standing orders are fine.

That's how I have paid since joining, though I will move to DD when it becomes available.

I have to say, there appear to be quite a few less 'features' offered by IDNet, when compared to other ISPs, such as webspace, choice of dynamic IP, off-peak usage benefits, automatic line re-training (not sure how much that matters), but for some reason, I'm still more than tempted.

IDNet concentrate on the core business of giving us a reliable and fast connection with good support should we need it (most of us don't). As users/customers, we have opted for the company on that basis, in the main. We know there are cheaper options, but we like the sustainable model that IDNet use. Webspace has been mooted before and may come to pass at some point. Dynamic IPs would, I suspect, be difficult to implement when the bulk of customers are on fixed - it's easier to do the opposite. Automatic re-training is a marketing line, it doesn't really happen like that (unless we have a different concept of what it is ). I think you'd find your temptation didn't lead you in the wrong direction, if you have a look around the forum you'll get a good idea of how pleased we are with the service.

I hope this type of post doesn't cause any offence.  I'm not trying to play one off against the other, and it probably doesn't matter a jot to IDNet whether little old me joins or not, and you have every right to tell me to "bugger off and join someone else then!".  It's just nice to voice my thoughts, and get other's opinions, although I know you will all rate IDNet as tops!   

No offence taken. I'm sure we'd all much rather you arrived here confident that you had made the right choice for you. No ISP can provide exactly the right package for everyone, and it's good that you should seek advice and opinion. That said, I'm confident that, if you decide on IDNet, you will feel it was the best decision you ever made.

[cavillas]

Ditto to the other replies.
Of course it matters whether you join us or not, we love new people. 
IDNet may be low on features but they are extremely high on CS, Support and reliability.
If SImon and Tim were to sell IDNet; which I doubt, as it is a part of thier life, then they would give thier users full thought and help them all the way through such difficult choices.

[Lance]

Well, I can't add anything to Rik's answer!

I pay by recurring credit card charge as IDNet is one of the few the only company I trust enough to feel confident doing so. Obviously, like Rik, I'll be moving over to DD when available.

My reason for stating a static IP is safer is for the exact reason Rik gives. I also find it useful because from time to time I need to access my machine at home, and knowing the IP certainly makes it easier to do that!

Feel free to ask as many questions as you want! It gives us something to do!!!

[Simon]

Hi Rik,

Hi Simon

Broadly, if your IP profile was not correct for your sync speed. There are some ifs and buts attached, namely you have to have had a stable sync speed at the higher rate for five days or more.

I'll have to take your word for that.  Can't say I'm all that clued up on all this.    As long as I have a stable connection, and I'm confident I'm getting the best speed I can get, I'm happy.

Lance will tell you his reasons when he's next in. My own view is that before I came to IDNet, I had a dynamic IPA, and would regularly see my router reporting probes. Since having a static IPA, I haven't seen any probes. My IPA hasn't been taken anywhere risky by another user.

Oh, I hadn't thought of that!  I had no concept that another user could end up with my old IP.    That's quite scary, but presumably it would be obvious that I was no longer using said IP if it were to fall into the 'wrong' hands.

That's how I have paid since joining, though I will move to DD when it becomes available.

As long as it's controlled from my end, i.e., I have the ability to cancel it myself, I'm happy.  I used the CC option with an ISP years ago, and they carried on charging it after I left.  Got the money back eventually, but could have done without the hassle.  Not that I'm suggesting this would happen with IDNet, of course.

IDNet concentrate on the core business of giving us a reliable and fast connection with good support should we need it (most of us don't). As users/customers, we have opted for the company on that basis, in the main. We know there are cheaper options, but we like the sustainable model that IDNet use. Webspace has been mooted before and may come to pass at some point. Dynamic IPs would, I suspect, be difficult to implement when the bulk of customers are on fixed - it's easier to do the opposite. Automatic re-training is a marketing line, it doesn't really happen like that (unless we have a different concept of what it is ). I think you'd find your temptation didn't lead you in the wrong direction, if you have a look around the forum you'll get a good idea of how pleased we are with the service.

Yes, it seems to be a happy forum, although, like my own forum sometimes, most of the posts seem to be from Admins & Mods!  Sometimes I think we're the only ones there!   

No offence taken. I'm sure we'd all much rather you arrived here confident that you had made the right choice for you. No ISP can provide exactly the right package for everyone, and it's good that you should seek advice and opinion. That said, I'm confident that, if you decide on IDNet, you will feel it was the best decision you ever made.

I hope it will be.   

[Rik]

I'll have to take your word for that.  Can't say I'm all that clued up on all this.    As long as I have a stable connection, and I'm confident I'm getting the best speed I can get, I'm happy.

We'll tell you if you're not getting the speed you should. (If you have your line stats with your present ISP, post them and we'll give them a good mulling. )

Oh, I hadn't thought of that!  I had no concept that another user could end up with my old IP.    That's quite scary, but presumably it would be obvious that I was no longer using said IP if it were to fall into the 'wrong' hands.

ISPs who use dynamic IPAs will, undoubtedly, also keep a long of who is using them when...

As long as it's controlled from my end, i.e., I have the ability to cancel it myself, I'm happy.  I used the CC option with an ISP years ago, and they carried on charging it after I left.  Got the money back eventually, but could have done without the hassle.  Not that I'm suggesting this would happen with IDNet, of course.

You're more trusting than me, then. As much as I trust IDNet, I will never grant a CCA on principle.

Yes, it seems to be a happy forum, although, like my own forum sometimes, most of the posts seem to be from Admins & Mods!  Sometimes I think we're the only ones there!   

You've noticed I talk a lot then... 

[Simon]

Hi Lance,

Well, I can't add anything to Rik's answer!

I pay by recurring credit card charge as IDNet is one of the few the only company I trust enough to feel confident doing so. Obviously, like Rik, I'll be moving over to DD when available.

See above.  I agree totally that recurring CC charges are very risky.

My reason for stating a static IP is safer is for the exact reason Rik gives. I also find it useful because from time to time I need to access my machine at home, and knowing the IP certainly makes it easier to do that!

Yes, I can certainly see that now. 

Feel free to ask as many questions as you want! It gives us something to do!!!

See above - I know the feeling!!   

[Simon]

We'll tell you if you're not getting the speed you should. (If you have your line stats with your present ISP, post them and we'll give them a good mulling. )

What are we looking for?  This is what my router says:

DownStream Connection Speed     4800 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed    448 kbps

Do you want me to post something from one of the online speed testers?

You're more trusting than me, then. As much as I trust IDNet, I will never grant a CCA on principle.

Well, after that experience, I wouldn't do it again!

You've noticed I talk a lot then... 

Many of us have too much time on our hands! 

[Rik]

What are we looking for?  This is what my router says:

DownStream Connection Speed     4800 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed    448 kbps

We need your d/s attenuation and noise margin for a full picture. That sync speed earns you a 4500 profile, throughput should be about 4250kbps.

Do you want me to post something from one of the online speed testers?

The BT tester is always useful as it reports your actual profile.

Many of us have too much time on our hands! 

Come here, we can soon fill it for you.

[Simon]

I've used the BT tester before, and I see it's still no more reliable!  Anyway, after several failed attempts, it finally gave in and produced these results:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4768 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 823 kbps

I note with interest that since requesting my MAC, my speed with Pipex has increased!   

[Rik]

Your profile suggests that you have had one or more low sync events. If you can maintain your current speed, it should recover automatically. The throughput, however, suggests a problem with the Pipex network or exchange congestion, you should be getting 4x that speed.

[Simon]

So, is the throughput issue likely to be rectified when I switch ISPs?

[Rik]

I would hope so. You are clearly achieving a much lower throughput than the IP profile set by BT, that is usually down to the ISP (though it would pay you to ensure that you have optimum settings for MTU/RWIN).

[Lance]

So, is the throughput issue likely to be rectified when I switch ISPs?

Unless it is at the exchange in which case BT should rectify in the near future. However, like Rik, I would suggest it is down to your current ISP.

[Simon]

Well, I just used DrTCP top optimise my RWIN/MTU settings, and did the speed test again:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4608 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1439 kbps

[Lance]

Although it is a better speed, it is possible that it is not all entirely due to the more optimal settings you now have (it is probably helped though!).

Most likely, the load on the ISP's servers was slightly lower than it was for the first test.

[Rik]

It may be an isolated improvement, but it suggests that you're moving in the right direction. What MTU/RWIN are you using?

Even so, it still looks like an issue with the Pipex network, and I have seen a few reports of that recently.

It would be worth eliminating your exchange from the picture, try punching your phone number in here.

[Lance]

I have to say, I think lately BT have been better at ensuring that the status of the exchanges remain green. There doesn't seem to be as many issues or complaints flying about!

[Rik]

Agreed, Lance, but it's worth checking just in case...

[Simon]

Exchange status:

Upgrade Status
Status: Green
Good News, BT have finished enabling this exchange for Max DSL products.
Products will be available from 31/03/06.
Speeds: Our test also indicates that your line should be able to support a potential ADSL Max broadband line rate of 2Mbps or greater.

MTU/RWIN:

[Rik]

Have you tried an MTU of 1500, Simon? I found that was the best option when I was with Nildram. Otherwise, those figures look fine, as does your exchange.

[Simon]

I could try it, Rik.  Haven't really fiddled about with it before.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were a lot to do with Pipex.  I'm sure if I were a new customer, my speeds would be much better.

[Rik]

TBH, I don't think they differentiate. I've been seeing stories of low throughput from a variety of users, recent and long-established.

OTOH, with IDNet, it's rare for anyone not to get the full extent of their IP profile. There was a bit of a bottleneck at the beginning of the year, when an inrush of new customers overtook the supply of a new central, but we were kept informed throughout (and I never noticed a problem myself).

[Simon]

OK, with MTU at 1500:

IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4896 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 835 kbps

OTOH, with IDNet, it's rare for anyone not to get the full extent of their IP profile. There was a bit of a bottleneck at the beginning of the year, when an inrush of new customers overtook the supply of a new central, but we were kept informed throughout (and I never noticed a problem myself).

This is one of the problems with smaller ISPs.  They don't seem to realise they they need to expand to accomodate new intakes of users.  Hopefully, this isn't the case with IDNet, and it seems they dealt with the problem before, so no reason to think they wouldn't in the future.

[Rik]

Mmm. Doesn't look like there's much to gain from MTU at 1500 then. I'm not surprised, we're just adjusting the last few bytes through the connection, the problem is elsewhere.

This is one of the problems with smaller ISPs.  They don't seem to realise they they need to expand to accomodate new intakes of users.  Hopefully, this isn't the case with IDNet, and it seems they dealt with the problem before, so no reason to think they wouldn't in the future.

IDNet were caught out last autumn by an inrush of refugees from a variety of ISPs. They already had the new central on order, but BT have a 3-month lead time regardless. It's the only time I know of their planning being derailed, and I'm sure they are keeping an eye on traffic levels now. They do guarantee no contention within their own network and, on what I have seen, they generally deliver it. Now if only they could take over the local loop as well.

[Simon]

Still no MAC from Poopex.    And they wonder why I'm leaving! 

[Lance]

They have a maximum of 5 days to give it to you, otherwise I would make a complaint!

[Simon]

Oh, don't worry, I will!  In fact, I think, as from February this year, they are breaking the law if they don't.  I suppose they are just being difficult and will make me phone for it again.  BS!

[Simon]

Well, I had to ring them again, and I now have my MAC code.    Now, what to do with it...    I've heard about this NetID lot - are they any good?

[Lance]

A visit to www.idnet.net normaly does the trick!

[Simon]

The trouble is, if I migrate today, I will still have to pay Poopex for next month, even though I don't use it, therefore I would be paying twice for a month's broadband.  Although I would love to say to hell with it, that would seem to be rather a silly waste of £25, and on principal, I don't see why they should get away with a 'free' month out of me.  Guess I'll just have to go on a downloading spree, and take them for all I can get before I leave.

[Rik]

Let IDNet have the MAC, tell them your billing date with the Poopers, and ask them to advise on a migration date. We'll start warming up a lounger in the back room for you.

[Simon]

If I do that, Rik, won't I be committing myself to the migration date?  If IDNet give me, say, 1st September, and I migrate on that date, I will still have to pay Poopex for the whole of September, as well as IDNet.  Do you see?

[Rik]

I understand. Let IDNet know when your paid-up period with Poopers runs out, and they can arrange the migration for a day or so before hand. That way, you've got all the arrangements made in plenty of time.

[Simon]

OK, I may do that, or just hang onto the MAC for a couple of weeks, then do it by the normal process.  I wouldn't want to pre-empt it, then they forget about me!

[Rik]

There's always a first time, but it hasn't happened yet.

[Simon]

Done it.  Gulp! 

[Rik]

Don't worry, you'll feel better in the long run.

[Lance]

I'm sure it will be fine!

[Simon]

Yes, I'm sure it will be too. 

[Simon]

Well, I'm impressed so far.  Got confirmation email that migration will be on the 20th Sept.  The email is working already!  Set up my accounts, and created the standing order online with my bank, so all systems should be ready to go on the 20th.

Watch out IDNet, here I come!   

[Lance]

Great news Simon! We look forward to having you!

[Simon]

Great news Simon! We look forward to having you!

Hang on a minute, I think someone already has!!  By signing up with my MAC code today, my billing starts from today, so I've still ended up paying two ISPs for this month!     I should have just kept hold of the MAC and waited, like I was going to.  Now, instead of Pipex getting a month 'free' out of me, it looks like IDNet are going to, as my migration date isn't until the 20th September, but I'm being billed from 24th Aug to 24th Sept.

[RobMc]

It sounds like you have just suffered from the default settings on the website ordering process. Give them a call on Tuesday or after and I'm sure they will sort it out for you. Talking to the friendly IDnet staff is such  a breath of fresh air after having to cope with other ISP's call centres. 

Rob.

[Simon]

I have emailed Support with the predicament, and as you say Rob, I am sure they will sort something out for me.  It's this 30 days notice with Poopex that's the main problem here.  They've got it totally sewn up for their benefit.  Even if I had migrated immediately, before the next billing cycle, they would still have charged me for the next month, so however you do it, unless you are really clever and can work out precise dates, Pipex get a month's payment for nothing. 

By the way, Rik, I wasn't blaming you for this, even though it might have seemed like it!  I was just a bit annoyed that things hadn't worked out as I had expected. 

[Lance]

I'm sure IDNet will sort it out Tuesday, I believe they have done in similar situations in the past.

[Inactive]

Simon, don't worry, I am sure the transition will go like clockwork, mine did.

[Rik]

By the way, Rik, I wasn't blaming you for this, even though it might have seemed like it!  I was just a bit annoyed that things hadn't worked out as I had expected. 

Someone has to pay my commission! 

I forgot that's how the website does things  . I arranged my migration by phone and paid from the date I joined, but I'm sure they will sort it out for you.

[Simon]

Hope so. 

[Simon]

Sorted.  Tim emailed, and billing now starts from Sept 20th. 

[Lance]

Great news! And an out of office hours response too! Already you're experiencing the great customer service here!

[Simon]

Indeed!  Long may it continue!

[Rik]

Now you've met Tim, we'll have to arrange to introduce you to your namesake. 

[Simon]

Who, the boss?  I'll have to put my best suit on! 

[Rik]

The other boss, the brothers Davies are joint MDs.

[Simon]

Oh yes, the penny got stuck half-way, but it's dropped now.