Alternatives to IDNet email.

stan · Sep 12, 2022, 23:49:23

I'm not remotely techie when it comes to setting up email hence I use IDNet's own email in the knowledge that if I have a query I can ring up and someone will put me straight in a couple of minutes. To be honest that sort of service is the main reason I've been with them since 2008.

But if I wanted to change email provider ... or, Heaven forbid, even change ISP, would I just resort to my existing Hotmail or Yahoo or G Mail accounts that I've had for years - for no particular reason - a sort of stand by I suppose .... or would it be good idea to pay for some sort of Domain based email? I can see that I can pay a company like Ionos and have an email address like fredbloggs@uk.co.uk and would no longer, apparently, be tied to an ISP.

Having said that I believe that I could take my IDNet emaill address with me if I moved on but I wouldn't be happy about ringing IDNet up to make an enquiry knowing they were no longer my ISP.

Additionally I see I only have 100mb storage in my IDNet email , which presumably accounts for me having to empty my deleted emails quite often to create space. Most of the domain companies seem to be abroad. Are there no UK ones that I could talk to if I had a query? I suspect the practice of ringing someome up to ask a question is becoming 'so last century'.

I dare say I could pay IDNet for a more capable email service?

Anyone got any thoughts?

Postal · Sep 13, 2022, 00:58:10

Quote from: stan on Sep 12, 2022, 23:49:23Anyone got any thoughts?

While a dedicated ISP service like IDNet gives you a point of contact if there is a problem, it also may give you the problem of notifying many contacts and changing internet account details if you ever move on from that provider. That may not happen if your provider maintains legacy accounts. For example I have a @btinternet.com address that has remained viable without any charge for the several years since we left BT as our ISP.

Going with a gmail, yahoo or whatever account gives you a point of contact but perhaps a bit more impersonal that an account with a dedicated supplier. However, there is no charge for those accounts. It is only a personal view but I am always a little wary about accounts like that because it is so easy and free of charge for anyone with any sort of nefarious motive to set up one of those accounts to try an inveigle people into some sort of scam.

Going with someone like IONOS will probably cost a pound or two each month but gives you a dedicated e-mail address tagged to a domain name of your choice (so for example you could be stan@stansmith.uk), a point of contact which should not be much different to the level supplied by an ISP, the ability to add other family members or partners to the same @stansmith.uk range of addresses and no need to change contact details of internet accounts if you ever change your ISP.

Depends exactly what you want and how much you are prepared to pay but the least favourable of all situations seems to be the one where you are tied to an ISP which will inevitably cause problems if you ever change ISP. If you want some sort of personal identification tied to the e-mail address and support at a slightly less impersonal level then paying for an e-mail address from one of the domain hosting companies would probably be best; on the other hand if you just want an address that is going to be a constant whether you change ISP or not then the free offering from gmail, yahoo, hotmail etc. will take away some of the potential for future pain.

stan · Sep 13, 2022, 18:24:22

That's a very helpful and insightful reply, Postal. Appreciated.

And you've put it in terms even I can understand

You mention point of contact ( which I take to mean the ability to contact the provider in case of queries or problems) ... and I can say it's either not possible - or extremely difficult ... to communicate with a human at G Mail. I registered an email address with them many years ago and, foolishly, allowed it to lapse and find it impossible to contact them to ask if it can be resurrected (it's not currently being used by anyone else to the besyt of my knowledge - if you send a test message to it it says it bounces back and cant be delivered. When I use the online option to request it be resurrected it says it doesn't exist but when I try to register it (as though for the first time) it says it's already been claimed (or words to that effect).

Do we consider Ionos to be as good as any (or, perhaps, even better than some? That option seems favourite as long as you don't need a Phd in computing in order to configure and maintain it.

Presumably the longer time passes the less chance of utilizing a particular email username as more and more people want to use their name etc?

nowster · Sep 14, 2022, 10:08:15

The provider I use for domains is Gandi (gandi.net), having used them for about 14 years now. A couple of mailboxes (3GB each) come as standard with a paid for domain. Unlimited forwards. Webmail available. https://www.gandi.net/en-GB/domain/email

A .co.uk, org.uk, or .uk domain with them would cost £5.70 per year.

I used to use their VPS product but it became expensive and I moved that to Hetzner. I still use Gandi for domain names, though.

stan · Sep 14, 2022, 11:33:33

Grateful to you, nowster.

Had a quick look and a co.uk name would cost just under a tenner - very acceptable!
Their website looks very comprehensive but (unfortunately for me) it doesn't take them long before they start dropping all sorts of acronyms and abbreviations into the dialogue ... VPS, MX, SRV, TLS ... to name but four, and there are hundreds more

but that's my problem, not theirs.

I see they're in France and don't have a UK office and couldn't see a phone number for them - I guess they don't encourage that sort of thing. I don't think many do these days.

As I am now able to use FTTP Full Fibre I might contact IDNet and see if they are willing to negotiate a better price than that shown on their website (I've been with them since 2008) and also ask if they can supply an ATA adaptor for my existing phone + extensions dotted round the house. I suppose if they were able to supply a slightly bigger storage capacity for my IDNet.com emails (it's currently only 100mb) then maybe I would keep that facility.

Anyway, thanks again - very helpful.

nowster · Sep 14, 2022, 11:51:12

Quote from: stan on Sep 14, 2022, 11:33:33
Grateful to you, nowster.

Had a quick look and a co.uk name would cost just under a tenner - very acceptable!
Their website looks very comprehensive but (unfortunately for me) it doesn't take them long before they start dropping all sorts of acronyms and abbreviations into the dialogue ... VPS, MX, SRV, TLS ... to name but four, and there are hundreds more but that's my problem, not theirs.

They do most support via email and website tickets. And Ionos (1and1) is a German company.

You don't need to know about any of those terms to operate their hosted email service.

VPS = Virtual Private Server (a bigger server split into multiple virtual servers)
MX = Mail eXchanger (mail server)
SRV = "SeRVice" entry in DNS
TLS = Transport Layer Security (the successor to SSL)

I find Gandi to be an utterly boring company. I've hardly ever had to contact anyone there because things just work.

stan · Sep 14, 2022, 12:04:55

In which case I would be very happy to accept "boring"

Thanks again, much appreciated.

Tacitus · Sep 14, 2022, 15:15:16

Makes me wonder if iDNet aren't missing a trick.

If anyone leaves make them an offer to maintain their current email address for (say) £3.00 per month. I have no idea how many people leave iDNet - probably not many - but with the arrival of more reliable full fibre (= FTTH) then the requirement for a high standard of customer service is probably lessened, in which case they may experience a higher number of defectors to the cheaper providers.

Doubt I will leave - my first invoice is dated 1st September 2009. My sister's is even earlier starting from March 2008. Only reason for the difference is that I was tied to a long contract with Demon who have long since departed the business. At one time Demon and Pipex were two of the best ISPs around.

TBH I think 10 years with them should get you an iDNet mug

Now if Tim or Simon are reading this....

zappaDPJ · Sep 14, 2022, 20:25:12

Quote from: Tacitus on Sep 14, 2022, 15:15:16
At one time Demon and Pipex were two of the best ISPs around.

Pipex were my first ISP, I was with them for many years. I had one outage which was preplanned and for which I was notified. Everything went down hill quickly when they sold out to Tiscali which was subsequently acquired by the world's worst ISP, TalkTalk. It was at that point I signed up with IDNet.

Simon · Sep 14, 2022, 20:33:51

Quote from: zappaDPJ on Sep 14, 2022, 20:25:12
Pipex were my first ISP, I was with them for many years. I had one outage which was preplanned and for which I was notified. Everything went down hill quickly when they sold out to Tiscali which was subsequently acquired by the world's worst ISP, TalkTalk. It was at that point I signed up with IDNet.

I followed much the same path. Pipex weren't the cheapest, but when they were good, they were very good. I joined this forum whilst searching for a new ISP, and Rik convinced me to join IDNet. That was in 2007 and I've been here ever since!

nowster · Sep 14, 2022, 23:04:15

I used to run the technical side of Zetnet (August 1994-March 2009). We started with a 64kbps kilostream from Pipex, a Cisco 2501 router and a /24 address space on the back of it, using thinnet (10Base-2 coax) Ethernet.

And I had a Demon account before that. 158.152.10.132 (nowster.demon.co.uk) was my IP address with them. And before that I was on CiX...

Adrian · Sep 15, 2022, 09:58:35

I have used Runbox (runbox.com) for many years for my personal email and for a charity I am associated with. Domain names are also hosted with them. They are based in Norway and although support is by e-mail or via their support pages, response is always quick and always very helpful. The support staff are the owners and while I don't know their nationality they have very English names and communicate in perfect English.

stan · Sep 26, 2022, 23:12:26

After 14 years with IDNet I've been pondering on my future broadband and phone usage and whether there's anything to be gained by looking at other ISPs, and dropped the IDNet office a line. I asked if my 100mb email facility could be upped a bit as I seem to need to empty it fairly frequently in order to make space. I also asked for confirmation that I could port my number to a new provider if need be, and also checked that my unused portion of annual subscription could be refunded.

I did also ask if I could keep my IDNet email address if I left and, as can be seen, I can, provided I pay £17.50 a year for it. Not too bad as I'd only keep it for the first year.

I received a polite reply and I can't imagine it contravenes privacy regs to reproduce part of it here.

As I said, it was polite and received promptly. It does, however, rather tell me that 14 years with IDNet hasn't bought me any brownie points or concessions, for example my current email capacity requires a, not inconsiderable, fee just to raise it from 100mb to 250mb and a bigger fee still to raise it to 1gb. Compared to the capacity that the free services like Hotmail, Gmail or Yahoo offer it seems a tiny bit mean. But, clearly, it's not a matter for further debate.

I've been in touch with Andrews & Arnold and asked about their FTTP and phone offerings. If I moved over and had FTTP installed with them I would pay the extra £1.20 a month to have use of my existing landline phone number (mainly for the few incoming calls I get) and would use the unlimited minutes on my mobile phone for outgoing calls..... I've just upgraded from my existing o2 Classic PAYG to one of their SIM only contracts and will pay them £6 a month for 4gb data + unlimited calls & texts. The o2 mobile phone service reviews on TRUSTPILOT are dire but the customer service advisor I spoke to was excellent and has kept her promises in a very efficient manner up to now.

Andrews & Arnold supply a Technicolour router with a built in ATA (telephone adaptor) into which I should be able to plug in my existing PSTN phone (I havea DECT GAP compatible cordless base plus extra handsets from last century but it's thought/hoped that they would work). Their technical support department appears to employ humans that answer the phone and seem helpfu ... much the same as IDNet.

If/when I did jump ship to AAISP I would change over to using my existing Hotmail email. I've also got a Yahoo and Gmail one too and they seem to work OK ... I've had them for many years without issue.

Anyway, the gist of the reply I received from IDNet is outlined here :-

More then happy to answer any questions you have. Firstly, all our emails come as standard with 100MB storage, you can upgrade to a bigger mailbox if you would like however these are chargeable:
250MB Mailbox is £25ex vat per year
1GB Mailbox is £50ex vat per year
You would still be able to have access to your email however, this would then be chargeable. If you wanted to keep the mailbox at 100MB this would be £15ex vat per year.
The other sizes would be charged at the same prices I have outlined above.
If you wished to port your number this wouldn't be a problem however, please note any broadband services attached to that number would be ceased. Regarding time scales and keeping your number, you would have to ask the supplier you were looking to port your number to.
If you did want to cease your service with us, any whole unused months at the time the service ceased would be refunded back to you.
Regarding services, an availability check shows you would be able to order FTTP which is a full fibre service if you wished to.

Simon · Sep 27, 2022, 09:44:08

Just a quick comment regarding the email quota - I've been with IDNet since 2007 and never had a problem with it, as I download my emails regularly to a desktop email client, so they are stored on my PC, rather than on the email server. Sending files of over 100Mb by email was never an issue as it never happened.

I wish you luck with whatever decision you make.

stan · Sep 27, 2022, 10:13:05

Thanks, Simon.

I may well be completely wrong ... it happens a lot

.... but is what you're describing the difference between POP and IMAP ?

They've told me (more than once) that IMAP is preferable if you want to have email copied to your mobile phone - which results in emails being stored on the server ... hence the 100mb limit.

I say again - I could well be barking up the wrong tree here.

Simon · Sep 27, 2022, 11:10:39

Yup. If you have an account set up as POP it will download emails from the server to the receiving device. With IMAP, you're just viewing the emails, and they remain on the server.

I have my mobile devices set up as IMAP, and my main PC is POP, so once in a while, when I start up my PC, I download all my emails and clear them off the server via my desktop email client.

stan · Sep 27, 2022, 12:27:07

Understood - and helpful too, much obliged.

nowster · Sep 28, 2022, 10:37:31

Just to point out again that you could have a 3GB mailbox on your own domain name (which you would own and can transfer between providers) for less than a tenner a year.

stan · Sep 28, 2022, 11:27:22

That's a good idea, nowster, ta.

I did start to look in that direction but, being a simpleton, I think I got overwhelmed by the complexity of it all

and returned to the prospect of sticking with hotmail, which of course is free of cost and I have it set up with an appropriate nameattached to it (something which I seem to see isn't so easy now that there are millions of people worldwide all looking to acquire an email address ... I was even told that there are individuals or organizations that register email addresses en masse with the sole intention of selling them at a later date).

Did you have a particular domain provider in mind when you made the suggestion, nowster, as I'm always willing to try to learn.

Ta.

zappaDPJ · Sep 28, 2022, 12:00:10

Slightly on topic... 100MB doesn't really do it for me anymore. I've lost mail just because I've been away from my PC for a few days and the other half is forever complaining because she's 100% IMAP. People don't seem to realise how much it eats into your quota when they attach half a dozen images taken on a modern phone.

stan · Sep 28, 2022, 12:08:13

In my humble opinion it's very much on topic Zap. It's the point I was trying to make in the first place when asking IDNet if I could possibly up the capacity a bit. But it's been confirmed that (a) I could make better use of my 100mb by transferring stuff into another place to preserve space or (b) could buy a bigger capacity from IDNet - i.e. 250MB Mailbox is £25ex vat per year and 1GB Mailbox is £50ex vat per year, and (c) more capacity and a more personsonal command by having a domain ... or, lastly, just swapping my main means of sending and receiving emails courtesy of Hotmail who seem to offer a good bit more than 100mb and don't charge for it.

I have to ask the question though ... is there a downside to using free providers like Yahoo, Gmail or Outlook/Hotmail that I haven't got to grips with? I've been using Hotmail and Yahoo for many years and it's all been uneventful but clearly there are advantages in the alternatives. I would say, in defence of IDNet, if I've ever had a minor query or question about my xxxxx@idnet.com email I've alway been able to ring up and speak to someone straight away - something not possible with Hotmail, Gmail or Yahoo ... and I don't know how easy it is to communicate easily with a company who might host my domain?

zappaDPJ · Sep 28, 2022, 14:10:11

There are a few negative aspects to using Hotmail etc. The provider might simply stop the service or change the terms of use. It rarely happens but Photobucket is a classic example of where a change in terms destroyed literally thousands of sites. Another issue is many sites block free providers to help combat spam.

stan · Sep 28, 2022, 14:17:22

Ah. didn't know that some/many sites block free email providers due to SPAM prevention.

Nowster mention using a domain host for less than a tenner.

I'm looking forward to receivinghis recommendation - maybe you, Zap, have thoughts on that too?

I did look at a couple and I believe I could see that I might have an email address comprising (for example) myinitialsandsurname@myinitialsandname.co.uk --- is this the sort of thing wer're talking about?

stan · Sep 28, 2022, 16:30:57

I rang AAISP earlier to see what email options they had. They, again, answered after two rings.

They don't provide an emaill address in the way IDNet do.

They said they are "registrars" and offer a domain hosting with Nominet. I could select a domain name with .me or .co.uk etc and basically they would oversee any enquiries I might have ... which is good for someone like me ... but they do charge £3.00 +vat per month to do it.

I also rang Nominet and an extremely helpful lady (in the UK) answered immediately and spent ten minutes explaning the service to me - very impressive.

zappaDPJ · Sep 28, 2022, 22:15:46

It's been a while since I setup my own email server for personal mail and I've never done it via a provider which I think is what we are talking about here. If so, I'd imagine the hardest part would be deciding what to call your domain because I think the provider will do all the technical stuff for you.