FTTP installation

[krysia]

We're presently on FTTC and happy with it, but realise we'll have to move to FTTP, given the BT copper switch-off.  Does IDNet offer any guidance about the best set-up for FTTP installation?  We're in a two-story Victorian terraced house, with our router in the first-floor middle room.  Our desk-top computer connects to the router via ethernet cable.  We have a strong wifi signal in the front first-floor bedroom and in the through sitting-room on the ground floor.  We have no trouble streaming programmes via a FireStick.

To keep the present set-up, the FTTP connection would need to come through the back of the house and be at first-floor level, but I'm not sure that's possible. If not, I guess we could have the router downstairs and make the desk-top computer wifi-compatible, but I've read routers send their strongest signals downwards - would the signal then be strong enough upstairs?  Could we get advice before installation about the best placement for everything?

Has anyone else going to FTTP had a similar set-up, and how did you resolve it?

[Simon]

I had a brief discussion with IDNet about a possibly upgrade myself, and I got the impression that as long as you have a compatible router (with a 1Gb WAN port), then whatever home setup you currently have, it should work the same. I didn't actually ask about the position of the installation but I assumed it would be where the current primary phone socket is.

Have you considered a Mesh WiFi system to improve WiFi coverage within the property?

I'd suggest a chat with IDNet.  They were quite helpful when I discussed this with them.

[gizmo71]

When I had mine done, my old copper wiring came in upstairs where the study is, and where the router and modem were. When the fibre was installed I had it put downstairs into a cubby hole under the stairs (which already housed a server), and ran ethernet from the existing router upstairs to the ONT (the new "modem" - not a modem, of course) downstairs. That worked absolutely fine. A few weeks later I got round to moving the router downstairs too and really didn't see a difference in signal strength, though mine's a fairly small (and very cuboid!) house.

[robinc]

We're presently on FTTC and happy with it, but realise we'll have to move to FTTP, given the BT copper switch-off.

I think you will find that is not the case. The switch off relates to voice calls, FTTC will not be affected.

The current offering for new lines since the beginning of the switch over which is well under way (SoGEA) is just FTTC.

[Simon]

I think you will find that is not the case. The switch off relates to voice calls, FTTC will not be affected.

Is that right?  I may have misunderstood things then, as I was under the impression that FTTC ran on the old copper landlines, and therefore would become obsolete when those landlines were discontinued.

[krysia]

You're right, Simon.  This is what IDNet said in a recent email:

At some point over the next couple of years, BT will be turning off the old copper-based services at your exchange which means that all broadband users in your area will be required to upgrade to FTTP anyway.

[Simon]

Yes.  I got the same email.  I'm in a slight quandary, as I'm actually happy with the service I have.  It's quite fast enough for my needs and I can download, stream, and use the internet without any issues. 

The problem is that the cost of our existing FTTC services will be increasing anyway, and the cost of an FTTP service is clearly more than FTTC, so either way, I'm going to end up paying more, and I'm going to have to go onto FTTP soon anyway.  It's just whether to do it now, and also move to VOIP for my landline phone, which I want to keep, or wait until I have to. 

Have to say, I really don't like being forced into making a decision like this.  It's the same as buying a new car.  I don't want one of these bloody electric things, but it looks like I'm not really going to be given much choice, and those cost more as well!

[robinc]

You're right, Simon.  This is what IDNet said in a recent email:

At some point over the next couple of years, BT will be turning off the old copper-based services at your exchange which means that all broadband users in your area will be required to upgrade to FTTP anyway.

Was this in a general broadcast email or part of a conversation with iDnet?

The reason this puzzles me is that - for example - we are not even on any roadmap for fibre yet. Along with most rural (therefore unimportant) areas, fibre is probably decades away as it will involve digging up huge lengths of road, pathway, driveways etc. as the stuff we have is armoured aluminium cable buried in the ground - no ducting. Cable from road runs under hedges and all sorts of odd places. This was the cheapest option for the building industry in the late '60s.

[Simon]

It was in an email, Robin, and that's also what I understood from a phone conversation with them.

But, looking at a number of different articles by Googling, it does seem as though FTTC will continue in areas that don't have FTTP yet, but when FTTP is enabled, users will have to switch at some point. 

[Clive]

I was talking to someone earlier this week who told me that when Ogi installed her FTTP they gave it to her free for the first 6 months.  But the FTTC stays on until either it's cancelled or the copper is taken away. 

[krysia]

Around here (in London), Openreach FTTP is coming from boxes attached to telephone poles, so no digging up is ncessary. 

I too wish I could just keep the FTTC and copper-based landline, which both work fine for us!

[krysia]

I'd suggest a chat with IDNet.  They were quite helpful when I discussed this with them.

I did ring IDNet, but the person I spoke to said it was hard to give any detailed advice without seeing the layout.  She said usually the engineer follows the route of the regular telephone wiring, but that's quite extensive here:  down the hall-way, up the stairs, and around 3 door architraves before getting to the desired room!  I wonder if I should email with photos?

[krysia]

When I had mine done, my old copper wiring came in upstairs where the study is, and where the router and modem were. When the fibre was installed I had it put downstairs into a cubby hole

Could they have put the fibre upstairs if you asked?  I have nop idea how big the fibre optic cable is, and whether it can be treated like telephone wire.

[goldberg]

Been with IDNet for years, currently both FTTC and PSTN.
Have just ordered IDNet's FTTP and single line Centrex, with migration of existing landline number.
About a year ago Openreach installed fibre CBTs (connectorised block terminals) at the top of all the poles in my locality, and now the full fibre service is finally available.  The pole serving my property is just across the street and the PSTN CSP (customer service point) is located just below the eaves at the front of my property.
My PSTN master-socket and router are located in an upstairs room at the back of the house.
In preparation for the change to FTTP I've installed 30mm duct with draw-rope through the loft from the CSP to where the ONT will be installed near the router.  I'm hoping Openreach will be OK using this duct, but they just might baulk at the alternative:  working in a hot loft containing at least one wasp nest !
Does anyone on the forum know which Yealink DECT products IDNet supply for their single line Centrex ?

[Clive]

When I phoned Chloe at IDNet some months ago I was told that I would not be able to have their FTTP as they weren't partners for our area.  Not sure what to think now! 

[Tacitus]

Does anyone on the forum know which Yealink DECT products IDNet supply for their single line Centrex ?

It is (or was) a Yealink W53p DECT handset with the appropriate base station.  Since most of the manufacturers are forever 'improving' their products this may well have changed, but I imagine it will still be a Yealink device.

I'm surprised they don't offer Gigaset as an alternative but Yealink seem to have a decent reputation in the business world.

[Simon]

I have a Gigaset DECT phone, which I'm assuming (hoping) will be compatible, as I also have 'satellite' handsets elsewhere in the property, and I believe IDNet only supply the one handset and base unit.

[Tacitus]

I have a Gigaset DECT phone, which I'm assuming (hoping) will be compatible, as I also have 'satellite' handsets elsewhere in the property, and I believe IDNet only supply the one handset and base unit.

I also have a Gigaset DECT setup and was disapointed when iDNet only supplied the Yealink system., although it does seem popular in the business world.  They will supply fully configured additional Yealink handsets at the time of ordering, for a one-off cost -£65 +vat at the time I asked. 

Whilst I appreciate they want to keep support costs to a minimum and stop people, "opening their wallets on Ebay and buying kit that is not of the required IDNet standard", I am surprised they don't offer Gigaset as an alternative since they appear popular with domestic users.

Unless you make a lot of landline calls I don't regard their VOIP offering as being good value, especially as it would mean me having to mix and match differing makes of handset which may or may not play well together.  As it stands I will probably opt for a PAYG service from either Voipfone or Voipify.  A&A are also a possibility. 

[Simon]

I also have a Gigaset DECT setup and was disapointed when iDNet only supplied the Yealink system., although it does seem popular in the business world.  They will supply fully configured additional Yealink handsets at the time of ordering, for a one-off cost -£65 +vat at the time I asked. 

Would your Gigaset not have worked with VOIP?  IDNet said mine probably would but may need an adapter. 

This is going to be an expensive enough (and needless, in my opinion) forced upgrade as it is, and all these additional one-off costs soon add up.  I'm hoping that both my existing router and telephony hardware will be compatible.

[Tacitus]

Would your Gigaset not have worked with VOIP?  IDNet said mine probably would but may need an adapter. 

I have the Gigaset N300A with (probably redundant) answer machine and S700H handsets.   The base will do both standard phone and VOIP so any transfer shouldn't be a problem.  The kit is fairly new and I have no desire to have to purchase another setup.  It's never been clear to me just how compliant the Yealinks are with the GAP spec, so I expect the Gigaset units would just give basic calls at best if used with the Yealink base. 

Gigaset supply a small utitlity which will transfer the Mac address book to the phone.  Can't find anything similar for Yealink which expects you to have an online address book as per business practice.  You probably can do it by faffing around with comma or tab delimited files and mapping the fields to the Yealink but in my experience the Gigaset utility is simple and straightforward. 

This is going to be an expensive enough (and needless, in my opinion) forced upgrade as it is, and all these additional one-off costs soon add up.  I'm hoping that both my existing router and telephony hardware will be compatible.

I think the problem will be whether the ISP will supply you with the login details.  A&A and Voipfone appear to be pretty good but I get the impression that iDNet want to set up the phones and lock them down to avoid support hassles.  Can't really blame them but it doesn't make me want to go with them for VOIP, especially on a 24 month contract.  When you tot up the cost of FTTH plus VOIP it starts to get expensive.

I can see many people going with a simple PAYG setup in order to keep the landline number.  If PAYG is not available they'll drop the landline number since they already have a mobile

[krysia]

Have to say, I really don't like being forced into making a decision like this.  It's the same as buying a new car.  I don't want one of these bloody electric things, but it looks like I'm not really going to be given much choice, and those cost more as well!

I'm with you on this. The changeover from copper to fibre optic is going to waste such a lot of serviceable electronic and telephone equipment.  I can understand the need to replace copper wires externally, but I don't understand why, given that FTTC can join copper wires from the cabinet, FTTP can't join the copper wires inside the house. 

[Postal]

Perhaps a little clarification about the whole copper/fibre transition, the PSTN to VoIP transition etc.

The PSTN to VoIP transition will take place for everyone on a BT final mile by December 2025.  This is not the same as the ADSL/FTTC transition to FTTP.  The PSTN transition means that the copper from the cabinet to the house is still used for the phone signal.  However, the phone signal will not be the analogue PSTN signal, it will be the VoIP internet signal that will have to be decoded in the house.  This will be the job of the router connected to the wire.  For those who only have phone and not internet the ISP will have to provide some equipment (probably a basic router) and will probably cap the line at something like 0.5MB so good for voice but little else to stop free access to the internet.  The VoIP signal will go back to the cabinet and then over the fibre to the head-end exchange.  The copper wire to the exchange will no longer be used and neither will the switching apparatus in the exchange so there are real-estate and maintenance benefits for BT as a result of the change.  Inside the house it is usually possible to plug the main internal telephone wire into the phone socket of a compatible router and then have all of the extensions etc. acting just as before.  ATA adaptors into which your phone plugs are available to fit into one of the ethernet ports on the router but do not have a high reputation in regard to the quality of the phone service.  Backup for the router will be needed once the transition takes place otherwise the phone will not work in a power cut.

The copper to fibre transition will take much longer (many estimates out there on the internet expect some houses still to have copper connections into the 2030s).  The copper to fibre transition involves the supplier running the fibre to the house and fitting internally an ONT (Optical Network Termination IIRC).  This is the fibre equivalent of the old telephone master socket.  An ethernet cable connects this to your router.  The ONT translates the optic signal to an electrical signal like the signal that used to come down the copper wire.  If you change your fibre supplier (so for example your new supplier uses CityFibre rather than BT for their network) a new fibre connection and ONT will be needed. The ONT needs power; BT will only fit an ONT adjacent to a power socket (although the anecdotal evidence is that they will fit an ONT beside an extension cable as the electrician is coming later to fit a proper socket).  To maintain service in a power cut, backup will be needed for both ONT and router.

TLDR:  The phone switchover is not related to the copper/fibre switchover and will happen for many people years before they get fibre.

[Simon]

Thanks for the clarification, Postal.

[peasblossom]

So we could keep using our current set up for quite some time before we have to switch?

I am very fond of IDNet, but agree with others that their fibre deal is not hugely attractive. Hyperoptic's is, but they're not available here yet. (Not about to head to any of the larger providers as I value good customer service too much.)

I also have a Gigaset phone and would be reluctant to switch to another handset unless it packed up.

[Simon]

The 'problem' is that the current FTTC prices are going up anyway, so in my case, I might as well switch as otherwise I'll be paying more or less the same for FTTC as I would for FTTP, if I include the phone line.

I would only go for the basic FTTP 115/20 as the price would be comparable to what I'm currently paying, and there's only two of us in the household so I don't need megafast speeds or to have multiple devices streaming simultaneously.

I used to pay annually, but as they're not doing the discount any more, I'll go on to monthly payments, and will probably aim to switch in January, when my current annual renewal is due.

[Simon]

I've taken the plunge and placed an order with IDNet.  I've started a new thread as I think it would be useful to keep information on the actual installation process separate from discussions considering options for those who have not yet gone ahead.

https://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,34297.0.html