My further ramblings about FTTP, landlines and perhaps moving to another ISP

[stan]

I have to confess .........

Since I last posted on the forum I have done nothing with regard to changing from ADSL to FTTP with Idnet or changing my email provider to one of the independent ones mentioned - or anything else.

FTTP is well and truly available at my house but I'm too nervous to swap. Clearly this must change. I remain with Idnet and the landline phone service it offers and, to be honest, it works fine.
I would like to keep my landline number in place, albeit it'll have to go over to VOIP and would imagine this would be via an ATA or a router that permits me to use my existing, elderly, DECT cordless phones.

Andrews and Arnold offer an attractive landline type VOIP phone service at very reasonable cost and will port my landline number over.  They also have good backup (as do IDnet whenever I've called) and their broadband doesn't seem any dearer than Idnet if I were to swap to them.

Idnet's Centrex VOIP landline type phone service is £15 a month.  I don't want to pay that, it's just for peace of mind and occasional use (incoming really).

I would like to keep my Idnet.com email address but it costs £18 a year ... and that's for a meagre 100mb - that sounds ridiculous in this day and age.....  perhaps I'm just being mean and picky?

I've raised a few points here.  I'd like to know if anyone has any thoughts since a few months have passed and, presumably, things must have moved on a bit - I do realise this forum doesn't attract hoardes of folk so am not holding my breath but anything would be welcome.

Ta.

[zappaDPJ]

I don't really think I can offer a great deal of useful advice although I can tell you that you are not the only one contemplating these issues.

For what it's worth I would opt for FTTP if it is available. My experience is that it is a far superior product compared to ADSL. It's similarly priced and apart from that, it's an inevitability. You will probably have to switch at some point in the near future anyway.

I agree that 100mb for email storage is woefully inadequate today. I also think it no longer sensible to have it tied to an ISP. These days loyalty to any provider is to lose money. We all switch utility and insurance providers yearly so why not ISPs? In theory it should be painless and many ISPs offer hugely discounted new customer enticements. The major issue with that is email so it makes sense to look for options that don't involve an ISP.

I can't comment on the landline aspect. We ditch our landline just over a year ago and my only regret is we didn't do it 10 years ago.

[Bill]

For what it's worth I would opt for FTTP if it is available.

Depends on the FTTP... Gigaclear became available here a few days ago with some attractive introductory offers, but it's CGNAT and no IPv6. I can have a static IP if I pay extra for it, but provision of IPv6 "is being looked at". I know there aren't many sites that are IPv6 only but I really can't see why, these days, a provider shouldn't incorporate it from day one, it's been around for long enough. Can't help but wonder what else they may have left out

Phone... I've been gradually shifting my phone contacts over to the mobile with the thinking that I'll simply ditch the landline number when the time comes, I've reached the stage where if the phone rings it's probably a spam call But that isn't suitable for everybody.

[Simon]

£15 per month for Centrix isn't much more than the current line rental cost, is it?

I am also in a quandary, for many of the above reasons, and have several email addresses tied to IDNet.  I just wish thier FTTP prices were a little more competitive.

[stan]

I'm genuinely grateful for the replies.

Re. retaining the landline albeit on some sort of VOIP arrangement, I realise almost everyone is ditching it in favour of the mobile and can see why (and agree most of the incoming calls are SPAM). It's just that I don't trust myself not to drop the mobile into the washing up bowl or down the toilet and find the landline just to be a bit of a reassurance that I'll still have a means of communication if the mobile wasn't available. The VOIP on offer at Andrews and Arnold is about £1.40 a month and you pay for any calls at about 1.5pence a minute - that seems fair to me and if I can port my number across then I would. As mentioned their broadband doesn't seem any dearer tha what I would pay if I stayed where I am, and I've called theier tech. dept. with one or two pre-purchase queries and was more than impressed at the time.

I agree £15 isn't much different from the current charge and I concede it includes most outgoing calls to landlines and mobiles (but I now have that facility from my mobile using EE's unlimited calls and texts, for which, of course, I pay them for the benefit) - but I keep being told FTTP and VOIP is supposed to make things cheaper as well as more efficient and if you add £15 to Idnets FTTP charges it ain't cheap.  Whereas the other ISP i've mentioned will give me a landline with my existing number for less than £1.50 a month and if I choose to make calls on it I can pay 1.5p per minute for them .... but I won't want to make many as I only, mainly, want the facility to have infrequent incoming calls plus the back up of a landline if my mobile goes AWOL.

Has anyone out there actually got their old phones (corded or cordless/DECT) connected to a router or ATA on fibre via FTTP and was it simple enough to achieve?

I'm still unsure about email. I have Hotmail, Gmail and Yahoo accounts, all live and working, but after many years with Idnet most of my emails are done via their email account (despite having to empty the lists when they get near the, incredibly meagre, 100mb limit) but I gues once you've moved to a different email provider it's done.

Has anything changed regarding the recommendability of independent email companies like G and I or Proton or Zoho since it was last spoken about here?

Further thanks in advance.

[Bill]

It's just that I don't trust myself not to drop the mobile into the washing up bowl or down the toilet and find the landline just to be a bit of a reassurance that I'll still have a means of communication if the mobile wasn't available.

I don't know which phone you've got but (afaik) they're mostly pretty waterproof these days. My iPhone 12 has an IP68 rating- this means that it can withstand water up to a depth of six meters (19.7 feet) for up to 30 minutes.

I did manage to drop mine into the toilet a few months ago, fortunately nothing had preceded it! It was hooked out after a few seconds, given a good shake (to clear the charging port), dried off and it was fine.

... but after many years with Idnet most of my emails are done via their email account (despite having to empty the lists when they get near the, incredibly meagre, 100mb limit)

Same here, tho' I also have accounts with Ionos (used to be 1&1). I don't have to clear the lists, are you using webmail? I use POP3, configured to auto-delete emails a week after I've read them. Only had trouble once when swapping batches of large jpegs with a friend, but a bigger allowance would be welcome at times.

I don't know if it still applies, but I think that you used to be able to get a lot more space if you switched to a paid-for account instead of the free one.

[stan]

Ta most muchly.

I have a Huawei P Smart. Not exactly a posh one but hopefully bog proof then. I'm pleased your porcelain based  incident occurred whilst the pan was free of ..... well, we shall stop there.

Not using POP3 - using IMAP.  I was advised to do that as I also receive emails on my phone and apparently that's the setting to use.

If I'm reading it right on their current Domain Mail page the paid for accounts are :-

Basic 100mb       = £18 annually
Standard 250mb  = £30 annually
Large 1GB           = £60 annually

When I rang, some time ago, I think I spoke to Chloe and asked if I could keep my Idnet email address if I left Idnet and the answer was I could and it would cost me £17.50 a year for 100mb. It's obviously gone up 50p.
To be honest £60 sounds a lot for 1GB, but who am I to pass judgement?

[zappaDPJ]

To be honest £60 sounds a lot for 1GB, but who am I to pass judgement?

A free Microsoft Outlook.com email account offers 15GB of free storage as well as integration with a lot of other products. Others like Yahoo offer 1TB. I'm not necessarily suggesting them as an option but it puts things into perspective.

[Bill]

I had a google around for the Huawei- as far as I can find out it's dust proof and water resistant, meaning it will stand getting wet from splashes, rain etc, maybe even a hose if it's not too vicious, but it isn't meant to be submerged. Something to bear in mind.

(OTOH there's a YT video here that suggests it might withstand a brief sinking.)

That was sensible advice about IMAP if you're using email on more than one device... I am too, but prior to getting the smartphone I tried IMAP and couldn't get on with it (probably comes of being a reactionary old codger who prefers to keep his mail on his own computer rather than someone else's server ). I've put together a rather clunky setup that more or less works with the iPhone and iMac, maybe time to try IMAP again and see if I can find a way of automatically purging it of old mails. Seems an odd omission if it can't be done.

£60 per year for 1GB does seem rather pricey... I had a look at what I'm paying for my Ionos email. It's a lot cheaper than IDNet; they changed the pricing structure this month (upwards of course) and I won't get a bill until December, but I think I'm still only paying £1.50 a month (+VAT) for 2GB!

[Bill]

A free Microsoft Outlook.com email account offers 15GB of free storage as well as integration with a lot of other products. Others like Yahoo offer 1TB. I'm not necessarily suggesting them as an option but it puts things into perspective.

Hmm... interesting. As a confirmed Mac man I don't want to go anywhere near MicroSoft if I can avoid it and I'm not too sure about Yahoo either, but as you say...

[stan]

I think I mentioned that I have bog standard .... (sorry), free, email accounts with Hotmail (which is, of course, Outlook) plus the same type of account with Yahoo.co.uk and one with Gmail. All three have been utterly reliable and free from glitches and 99% free from Spam for many many years (probably over 20) and I use an ad-blocker which rarely causes stuff not to work and seems to keep those email accounts free from much in the way of adverts. Up to now I just use them for odds and sods but would probably eventually use the Hotmail one as an Idnet replacemnt.

My Idnet.com email is set up to work with Thunderbird and it seems to have worked well for a good many years. I would be happy enough to continue to use it if/when I move to A&A (which is a distinct possibility) other than the ongoing limit of 100mb plus the fact I'll be paying for it rather than get it included as it is at the moment.

I believe you can configure Hotmail/Yahoo/Gmail to work with Thunderbird to but I don't think I have the gumption to attempt it. That's a job for some future date - probably when I get a visit from a techy fella whom I will pay. When the swap from ADSL to FTTP occurs I'll have him round to connect the new router/ATA etc to the printer/laptop and mobile phones and, hopefully, ensure the old DECT phones and the single corded phone works OK.

I rang Idnet again and spoke to Heather, who was helpful and answered my queries about the matters in hand: yes you pay those prices for email if you leave, yes they'll supply either digital cordless handset or a Cisco 191 (2 port) ATA - your choice, yes you pay a £30 set up fee for FTTP and the monthly figure depends on your choice of plan.

The Centrex landline VOIP plan on offer is a 24 month affair! Be aware of that. The Cetrex phone plan with calls included is £15 and there's a set up fee for that too I believe. I can understand that.

I think that just about sums the afternoon's enquiries etc.

The posts here have been helpful and a somewhat thought provoking so thanks again for the advice and observations - if there are more then so much the better.

[Simon]

Slightly off topic but with regards IMAP, I have all mobile devices set up as IMAP, but my desktop computer is set up as POP3 so when I use that, it downloads all the emails I've chosen to keep off the server, onto the computer.  I've never had an issue with space with my IDNet email accounts, possibly for this reason. 

I also have duplicate email accounts set up as IMAP on the computer so that I can download Sent emails I want to keep, thus further freeing up server space.

[stan]

Not particularly off topic at all although I'm not entirely sure I understand how your system works .... however it could be another job for the tech bloke when he comes.

Ta.

[Bill]

Slightly off topic but with regards IMAP, I have all mobile devices set up as IMAP, but my desktop computer is set up as POP3 so when I use that, it downloads all the emails I've chosen to keep off the server, onto the computer.  I've never had an issue with space with my IDNet email accounts, possibly for this reason. 

I also have duplicate email accounts set up as IMAP on the computer so that I can download Sent emails I want to keep, thus further freeing up server space.

That sounds pretty much what I was trying to achieve, but I didn't think of using both IMAP and POP3... neat, I shall investigate that

[zappaDPJ]

Hmm... interesting. As a confirmed Mac man I don't want to go anywhere near MicroSoft if I can avoid it and I'm not too sure about Yahoo either, but as you say...

Apple also offer a free email service which is supposed to be quite good in terms of functionality. I've never used it but a search suggests 5GB of storage.

[robinc]

I believe you can configure Hotmail/Yahoo/Gmail to work with Thunderbird to but I don't think I have the gumption to attempt it.

Setting up Hotmail and/or Gmail for IMAP is absolutely as easy as it can get. The process is wizard driven and requires no more than your name, email address and password. The fine detail is dependant on which you use, but involves a code being dent to your phone, or another known (recovery) address.
That's it.
Gmail does have an extra step where you have to allow access by what they call 'Less Secure' apps, so Outlook/Hotmail is probably an easier starting point.

[robinc]

Slightly off topic but with regards IMAP, I have all mobile devices set up as IMAP, but my desktop computer is set up as POP3 so when I use that, it downloads all the emails I've chosen to keep off the server, onto the computer.  I've never had an issue with space with my IDNet email accounts, possibly for this reason. 

I also have duplicate email accounts set up as IMAP on the computer so that I can download Sent emails I want to keep, thus further freeing up server space.

Obviously this depends on your email client. However, Thunderbird allows you to synchronise just specific folders - such as Sent Mail - to your local machine via IMAP. No need for POP3.
Account Settings>Synchronisation & Storage>Advanced

[Bill]

Apple also offer a free email service which is supposed to be quite good in terms of functionality. I've never used it but a search suggests 5GB of storage.

I haven't used it either, but I think that the 5GB is just the free iCloud storage you get as an Apple customer. So how much storage you get for mail depends on how much of it you're using for other things.

[Simon]

Obviously this depends on your email client. However, Thunderbird allows you to synchronise just specific folders - such as Sent Mail - to your local machine via IMAP. No need for POP3.
Account Settings>Synchronisation & Storage>Advanced

Does that allow for the emails to be downloaded to the local machine, thus removing them form the server?

[Simon]

Seeing as we're asking questions, why is it that: "All call packages have a call limit duration of 1 hour per call after which you would be charged for the time period after the initial hour at 1.2p per minute for landline calls and 6p per minute for mobile calls."  Obviously if you wanted to continue a call for longer than an hour you could just redial, but why is there an hour limit in the first place?

[robinc]

Does that allow for the emails to be downloaded to the local machine, thus removing them form the server?

As it is IMAP it functions as a Sync process. So you can either sync your entire mailbox to your local machine, or individual folders as you require.
It does not provide for POP3 type delete on download.
However, you can set Retention Policies on a per folder basis.
These allow you delete by age or by number of messages.

[Postal]

As it is IMAP it functions as a Sync process. So you can either sync your entire mailbox to your local machine, or individual folders as you require.
It does not provide for POP3 type delete on download.
However, you can set Retention Policies on a per folder basis.
These allow you delete by age or by number of messages.

If you are using an e-mail client like Thunderbird you can also set up message filters that will download messages from your IMAP account then delete them from the server so that you can replicate the POP3-type workings if you so desire.

[Bill]

Seeing as we're asking questions, why is it that: "All call packages have a call limit duration of 1 hour per call after which you would be charged for the time period after the initial hour at 1.2p per minute for landline calls and 6p per minute for mobile calls."  Obviously if you wanted to continue a call for longer than an hour you could just redial, but why is there an hour limit in the first place?

That's a good question, I've always assumed it's akin to the common "fair use" policy on internet usage to discourage over-use. As you say, all you have to do is hang up and redial, but my brother-in-law had something similar with his call package (except it was only 30 minutes) and on the odd occasion we had to use it we found it less easy than you might think to simply pick up where we left off. So perhaps it's intended to act as a sort of psychological deterrent...

OTOH, some people would probably use the brief break to make some notes to remind themselves about what else they wanted to natter about

[Simon]

And one more question from me - is it currently possible to upgrade to FTTP, but keep your existing copper phone line until such time as it is discontinued?

[nowster]

And one more question from me - is it currently possible to upgrade to FTTP, but keep your existing copper phone line until such time as it is discontinued?

It should be, yes. That's what my parents have. The concern was the frequent power cuts they have in rural NW Wales. They do have a UPS which should keep the ONT, router and one WiFi access point (of three) going for about 2-3 hours.