New UBOSS VOIP service in addition to CENTREX

[stan]

Sorry for slow reply, Simon.

First thing to bear in mind :-  I'm a complete, know nothing simpleton and I'm usually wrong.

First observation and statement of the flaming obvious is ... if you (and I) hope to use the old style analogue phones from yesteryear i.e. your old Gigaset and my old BT Diverse 5110 and Berkshire 800 speakerphone VIA VOIP then we need to connect them to the net either via an ATA (the adaptor box) or straight in to the back of a router WHICH IS EQUIPPED TO ACCEPT THE OLD STYLE ANALOGUE PHONE(S).  And it would seem apparent that not many newish routers which work with FTTP have the ports to accept the phones in question. The port required is called an FXS port.

Andrews and Arnold supply a router called Technicolour  DGA0122 which DOES have two FXS ports on the back to accept analogue phones withouth the need for a seperate ATA. They configure it before posting it out to you if you subscribe to their FTTP service. And, as mentioned, their VOIP service is apparently good and cheap and their customer service is highly rated.

Regarding yout ASUS router, Simon, I can't see any reference to FXS ports on the back therefore I can't imagine it will accept an analogue phone (such as your Gigaset) and you'll need to get an ATA as well. As mentioned Idnet supply a couple, a Grandstream and a Cisco. The Cisco has two FXS ports and the Grandsteam has one.

From what I can see very few routers have FXS ports on them and the Technicolour is one such router. I'm not at all sure it's the best router in the world .... the engineer I spoke to locally doesn't think so anyway and |I'm not sure it is of the very latest specification .... but I'm no expert.

I don't believe any of the IDnet supplied routers have FXS ports and all require an ATA to connect analogue phones to the net via VOIP.  The router that one of the Idnet assistants recommended to me is the TP Link VX230 AX1800 and is shown on Idnet's website at £59.99 if you have a 12 month FTTP contract.  The other assistant I spoke to recommended thew TP Link HX220.  I'm frankly confused.

Perhaps it could be said that the advantage of a seperate ATA box is that you can use it with any future router you may find yourself with.  The Idnet supplied Cisco is (OTOH) around £100 and the Grandstream around £66.  I don't know what the advantage is of paying the extra, apart from the Cisco having two FXS ports instead of one.

[stan]

So, what order to do things. I'd like to swap to A+A for my phone line but they can't take it over till I have full fibre broadband. Do I deal with that first then the phone? I don't want to lose my landline number.


I'm 100% certain you must get your FTTP broadband from the supplier first, be that Idnet or AAISP, and have it up and running .... THEN apply to port your landline number to your new supplier.

Apparently if you apply for FTTP and for a number port at the same time ... and if there happens to be some sort of a delay getting your FTTP working .... then your landline will have been disconnected and you'll have no service until it's sorted out because when you apply for FTTP it automatically disconnects the original supplier. That's what I'm told.

[peasblossom]

Thanks, Stan. Just checked availability and I'll have to wait a while before full fibre is go here. Seems odd that any of us here need to as City Fibre are all over the city. You'd think they'd do all they need to top get everything in place if people wished to switch. Or is that too simplistic?

[Simon]

Stan, I'm not expert on these things either.  I have been lead to believe that a DECT phone will connect to the Asus router which IDNet are supplying.  If it doesn't, then they may well be getting it back as I could have continued using my existing router if I still need to get additional phone adapters. 

[Simon]

I've just checked the router myself and indeed, it doesn't appear to have any phone ports, just a couple of USBs.

I'm having a bit of a rant here, but to be honest, the more I think about this, the more inclined I am to give up on it all.

I've got a perfectly good internet connection and phone line as it is. I don't really don't see why I should go through all this fiasco and expense just for the sake of upgrading because bloody BT want us to. 

So, what if I cancel the FTTP installation?  Can I just stay as I am on FTTC, and for how long?  When I'm eventually forced to go VoIP, does that work over FTTC?

[peasblossom]

I've just checked the router myself and indeed, it doesn't appear to have any phone ports, just a couple of USBs.

I'm having a bit of a rant here, but to be honest, the more I think about this, the more inclined I am to give up on it all.

I've got a perfectly good internet connection and phone line as it is. I don't really don't see why I should go through all this fiasco and expense just for the sake of upgrading because bloody BT want us to. 

So, what if I cancel the FTTP installation?  Can I just stay as I am on FTTC, and for how long?  When I'm eventually forced to go VoIP, does that work over FTTC?

Rant away! This is a safe place to vent, I think.

AIUI, VoIP needs FTTP (full fibre to the premises, not 80% fibre then 10% copper = FTTC so only to the exchange cabinet) to work. All caveats, however. Prepared for someone who knows more to say this is incorrect.

[stan]

Simon, I have no clue as to the implications of cancelling an order with Idnet but I know that within my Idnet Customer Portal pages there's a date given when I have to finalise the time spent using a copper pair to receive my internet and phone and move to FTTP. In my case it's December 2025.

Can you recall who advised you go for the Asus router and what the logic attached to it was, and whether there was some sort or reassurance given regarding the Asus having a phone port??  As mentioned my own recommendations were for two other devices, both TP Link but it wasn't inferred that there were any phone ports on them and it was made clear an ATA would be needed to use VOIP telephony if that was what I wanted.

I do recall the cost of the current ADSL based copper pair phone service is to rise, presumably from next renewal. I think it's the line rental that's due to go up. It may be that the monthly running costs of FTTP plus UBOSS is no more than the increased line rental and ADSL arrangement we're both presently using.

I'm not actually convinced that the inconvenience of swapping providers is all that more significant than swapping from ADSL to FTTP and porting the landline number over to VOIP but obviously there's a reassurance of some sort to be had by staying put and keeping our records and payment methods intact.

I need to scratch my head a bit more before putting my head in the lion's mouth. And, by the sound of it so do you.

[zappaDPJ]

When I'm eventually forced to go VoIP, does that work over FTTC?

TLDR:  The phone switchover is not related to the copper/fibre switchover and will happen for many people years before they get fibre.

https://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,34261.msg764420.html#msg764420

I think that answers your question, at least as much as I understand it.

[Simon]

Sorry for the rant, guys.  I just feel that this is effectively being forced upon us, and as such, it should be made easy.  But it isn't. 

I've just checked my initial order and the original install date was 17th Jan.  That's now passed, and OR haven't even installed the outside box yet.  They've made two visits - the first one resulted in them saying the ducts were blocked, and the second one, where they were supposed to have carried out the 'civil works' just resulted in them saying, once again, that the ducts are blocked, and buggering off!

So, I'm no further forwards than I was on 7th December when I placed the order, and now I don't know whether I'm coming or going with the direct debit payments to IDNet, as my annual payment for the old FTTC service is actually due today, but I'd asked to move back to monthly payments as there's no longer a discount incentive to pay annually up front. 

Then there's the phone.  I'd elected to keep my old landline for now, at least until the FTTP was up and running, on the possibly incorrect understanding that my existing DECT phone would connect to my sparkly new router, when the time came to switch to VoIP.  Now it seems this is not the case, so yet more expense will be incurred in purchasing an adapter.  Even if I'd purchased a new VoIP phone from IDNet, would that even have connected directly to the router?  And what about my CallBlocker box and the two satellite phones in other rooms?

I think I'm just getting too old for this s**t! 

[stan]

Simon, I have a little experience of the sort of thing you're experiencing. My neighbour underwent something very similat with Openreach and Plusnet a few months ago.

Openreach's contractors couldn't pass the new fibre cable from the pavement junction box to his house - they said it must be blocked. I won't detail every step of the way but it took many weeks and several visits from different contractors to find out that the pavement area where his car passed over to access his property had collapsed sufficiently to squash the duct, thus stopping them from passing the cable through.  Eventually they had a hole dug in the pavement and repairs were effected and the fibre was installed.

During the process of installing the box on the wall at the front of his house the installer drilled through a central heating pipe and drained his entire system .... this required a heating engineer to fix the pipe and refill the system and a plasterer to repair the wall in his front room.... all paid for by Openreach/Plusnet Additionally the installer damaged brickwork on the outside and they made a payment to my neighbour to compensate for that damage too.

Suffice to say he wasn't best pleased but it all works now.

He reckons Plusnet dealt with it as best they could but he wasn't impressed with the contractors that Openreach used to do the instal.  As it happens it was Openreach who ultimately found the blockage in the pavement and who dug the hole, fixed the problem and reinstated the pavement.

I have heard that Andrews and Arnold are particularly good at pestering Openreach when problems are encountered ... but it's only what I've read - i have no personal experience.

Other neightbours have had FTTC fitted in the past year without issue - one was with BT and another with John Lewis.

I've not had very many encounters with Idnet when it comes to fixing issues but their reputation is good enough to make me think they'd be OK ... but I honestly don't know.  You probably have more experience and I'd have thought they'd have dealt fairly with you.

For sure an expensive new digital VOIP phone would plug straight into a router but they're very expensive and, to my mind, hugely complicated and require configuration processes way beyond my understanding ... hence wanting to keep my existing analogue phones.

What do you mean by call blocker box and satellite phones?

[Simon]

Hi Stan,

I've not had confidence in any of the OR engineers who've visited so far.  My blockage, so they say, has been caused by other providers installing their own cabling in the ducts, making them overly congested.  They're talking about making a new duct under a hedge at the front of the property.  The issue with that is, it's not my hedge so they've got to permission from the estate management company to dig it up.  Not the whole hedge, but enough, presumably, to install a new duct. 

It's then a question of where they fit the external box on my property.  I have elected for them to use an enclosed outside cupboard, where the current phone line enters the property, as it was assumed that this would be the easiest route, given that it's already in place.  Hopefully they could then feed the cables from that point up to the existing phone point in the flat, which is where I want the router installed.

IDNet have confirmed that the new router will support a new VoIP DECT phone, but would require an adapter to support an analogue DECT phone - so yet more expense. 

With regards the CallBlocker, this is a box I have which filters out unwanted spam calls, and can also block other chosen numbers.  I find it very useful. 

https://amzn.eu/d/4wePzF0

By 'satellite' phones, I just mean additional handsets in other rooms to the main phone. 

[stan]

Briefly, Simon ... I can't see how your call blocker will work after a change to VOIP as the old style telephone wall sockets will no longer be in use.

But the satellite phones will of course work if you're using an ATA to plug the old type DECT cordless phone base into. Obviously they won't if you buy a new VOIP phone.

[Simon]

Regretfully, I agree about the CallBlocker, Stan, although, if there's a 'normal' phone socket to connect the DECT phone to the ATA, then maybe I could still connect the CallBlocker between the phone and the ATA, as it's now connected between the phone and the wall socket. 

[stan]

You might be right there, Simon, but I don't know who you might go to to get a definitive answer ... it's so difficult to ring firms now and speak to a human. That's where Idnet and AAISP score brownie points. If you bought the Cisco ATA then that definitely has two FXS ports so presumably you could use the call blocker there as well as your Gigaset cordless analogue phone.

This dialogue has rekindled my thoughts and I'm seriously thinking that I might take the following course of action.

1. Place an order with AAISP for their (Openreach)  'Home1'  Ultrafast, 115 / 20, FTTP plan @ £37 pm inc vat.
2. Wait until it's working, then apply for landline number port to AAISP's VOIP service ~ £1.44 pm (no calls included - calls at 1.5p p min. This will automatically disconnect both the landline number AND the broadband service with Idnet and I'll pay whatever I owe them when billed. I would have to pay AAISP a further £15 porting fee to bring my landline number awy from Idnet, over to AAISP
3. The above mentioned VOIP phone plan with AAISP would tie in with the provision of AAISP's router that they supply for free (although it's not free coz you pay them a £100 installation fee) .... and the router that they supply comes with an inbuilt ATA and has TWO FXS ports into which I would plug in my DECT analogue base station plus my, rather ancient, ATL Berkshire speakerphone.

The upshot of my plan would mean I have a 12 months FTTP contract for Broadband plus retain my landline number and retain the analogue cordless phones round the house albeit there are no free calls, just a £1.44 per month fee to retain the number as a sort of standby facility.

If the WI FI provided by the new router (A Technicolour 4134/5) proved less than optimal I can get the engineer to instal BT Whole Home (ubiquiti) booster to, apparently, make it better. 

The choice between going with either Idnet or AAISP for FTTP is a bit swings and roundabouts ... and it's perfectly possible I may jump on the wrong roundabout.

To be honest there doesn't seem to be very many subscribers to the forum as we speak so I'm thinking there might not be too many further contributors offering further opinions and it looks like it's mainly you and me on this topic butI'd be very happy to remain abreast of your own thinking and developments though.

[Simon]

It's good to share thoughts, Stan.

I had an update today that OR are now due to do the 'civil works' on the 31st, so we will see what transpires next week.

[stan]

Understood, Simon.

In which case as you'll finally get your fibre installed and the pre~configured Asus router connected it'll just remain for you to decide what to do about the landline/VOIP.  Theres not much difference in the cost of the Idnet supplied and configured Cisco ATA and the pre~configured, Idnet supplied, digital VOIP base~set and handst ... but with the former you'll get to keep the additional "satellites" and the call~blocker unit whereas with the latter you just get one, rather advanced and fancy, handset (albeit you'll be able to have it do all sorts of tricks including blocking calls).

Every good wish.

[Simon]

Technically I have I until the end of next year to decide what to do about the landline.  I'll probably just wait and see what other options may emerge by then.

[Postal]

This dialogue has rekindled my thoughts and I'm seriously thinking that I might take the following course of action.

1. Place an order with AAISP for their (Openreach)  'Home1'  Ultrafast, 115 / 20, FTTP plan @ £37 pm inc vat.
2. Wait until it's working, then apply for landline number port to AAISP's VOIP service ~ £1.44 pm (no calls included - calls at 1.5p p min. This will automatically disconnect both the landline number AND the broadband service with Idnet and I'll pay whatever I owe them when billed. I would have to pay AAISP a further £15 porting fee to bring my landline number awy from Idnet, over to AAISP
3. The above mentioned VOIP phone plan with AAISP would tie in with the provision of AAISP's router that they supply for free (although it's not free coz you pay them a £100 installation fee) .... and the router that they supply comes with an inbuilt ATA and has TWO FXS ports into which I would plug in my DECT analogue base station plus my, rather ancient, ATL Berkshire speakerphone.

Lots of discussion on other sites as well as here and the consensus is that those three steps represent the most sensible sort of process (using ISPs/VoIP providers of your choice and not necessarily IDNet and A&A).  Caveat that I claim no expertise beyond taking in a lot of information from around the net.

[stan]

All received, Postal. Ta.

[Clive]

My new provider contacted IDNet to inform them I wished to port my landline company to them and it was up and running as soon as my FTTP was installed.  The phone fits into the back of the new router so there would be no problem if I wanted to reconnect my call blocker which an over enthusiastic BT engineer removed when I had dropouts some time ago.  Left to my own devices I'd reinstall it but SWAMBO would not be happy about it.  If IDNet ever provide FTTP in the west I will be back with them in a heartbeat.

[Simon]

I've just noticed IDNet have a TP-Link VX230v router 'in testing', which does appear to have a phone port.  I may see if I can swap the Asus router I've ordered for this one, depending on cost.

[stan]

I've just noticed IDNet have a TP-Link VX230v router 'in testing', which does appear to have a phone port.  I may see if I can swap the Asus router I've ordered for this one, depending on cost.

See my reply in the other thread.

[stan]

My new provider contacted IDNet to inform them I wished to port my landline company to them and it was up and running as soon as my FTTP was installed.  The phone fits into the back of the new router so there would be no problem if I wanted to reconnect my call blocker which an over enthusiastic BT engineer removed when I had dropouts some time ago.  Left to my own devices I'd reinstall it but SWAMBO would not be happy about it.  If IDNet ever provide FTTP in the west I will be back with them in a heartbeat.

Who is your new supplier, Clive?

Roughly wherabouts are you? I'm in Devon and Idnet is readily available and FTTP becamwe available last  year. Quite a few have taken up FTTP (you can tell by the new grey box on the front of the houses.)

What is your router?

[NigelC]

I've just noticed IDNet have a TP-Link VX230v router 'in testing', which does appear to have a phone port.  I may see if I can swap the Asus router I've ordered for this one, depending on cost.

I have one of the TP-Link VX230v routers on a Fibre connection, router supplied by IDNet as part of a copper-to-fibre upgrade. 
My fibre went live in early January, with the phone continuing on copper (deliberately arranged to be sequential changes).   The VOIP swap was yesterday (my PSTN went off).  Needed some support emails to IDNet for them to alter the settings in the Router to make Voip work - their final changes happened earlier today.   
If concerned about loss of inbound calls,  ask IDNet to initially set up the VOIP with call-forwarding to a mobile number.   Thus any inbound calls are not lost.  Then see if the VOIP is working at the router to make outbound calls.  Once working, ask for (or DIY) removal of the call-forwarding. 


I have a old PSTN DECT base station/answering machine plugged into the socket on rear of VX230v.   That is able to make outbound and receive inbound calls from the UBOSS Voip service - tested this morning to and from a couple of mobile phones numbers. 
 

I intend to use the existing house "phone extensions" as it means the phone base unit can go where its more useful.  I'll ensure the phone extensions are fully disconnected from the old BT PSTN line (which still has volts for dial tone on it).   
Bodge method is to just pull the consumer "half face plate" out from the BT master socket, and connect to the dangling consumer plate (my extensions are correctly wired into the rear of the consumer plate).   Medium term is a neater socket arrangement, or pull the BT copper wires from the back of the BT master socket.   


Hope that helps with questions around the VX230v.


Nigel
(fairly long term IDNet domestic customer)

[Simon]

Thanks Nigel, that's useful to know. 

I'd be interested if you could let us know how you find the router in general, ie, how good is the Wi-Fi coverage and are you getting generally good speeds?

Also, you mentioned IDNet altering settings at their end for the VoIP.  Is that the case in general that they have to amend any telephone settings, such as call forwarding?

I ask, because the friends of mine who are already on VoIP seem to be relying on their ISP to set up call forwarding services, and such.  Is it not just a simple code, like it used to be?