FTTP New Installation Process

[zappaDPJ]

I had a knock on the door this morning from a scrap merchant asking if I wanted to get rid of the aforementioned cable. I'd left it at the end of the drive hoping someone would come along and steal it because it would have taken at least three or four trips to the local dump to get rid of it. Anyway the guy was quite knowledgeable and told me the cable was redundant, originally used to distribute radio and TV signals for Rediffusion.

[Bill]

I'd left it at the end of the drive hoping someone would come along and steal it

You should have put a sign on it- "For Sale £20"

It would have been gone by the following morning

[zappaDPJ]

You should have put a sign on it- "For Sale £20"

It would have been gone by the following morning

[Simon]

I've just been advised that the current provisional scheduled date for 'civil works' (whatever that entails) is 31/1/2024.  So that's clearly going to put my installation date back.

I must say that IDNet have kept me informed of all updates, for which I am grateful. 

[Clive]

It's no  time at all in the grand scheme of things Simon.  At least you can see it on the horizon if not just around the corner.    

[peasblossom]

It doesn't seem worth starting new thread just for this question, so I hope I've picked a suitable thread.

My quest to save some money on broadband/phone without sacrificing customer service quality continues and I'm wondering if it's possible to have VoIP phone and full fibre broadband from two different companies. I'm tempted go with A+A for the phone side of things and stick with IDNet for broadband.

Doable or never going to happen? Be gentle.

[Clive]

I can't see how that would work without having two routers as the Voip has to be connected physically to the router for it to work. 

[peasblossom]

I decided to ask A+A anyway before I saw your message, Clive. If it's ridiculous, I'll find out!

[Simon]

A quick update on my journey, whilst I'm here...

The guys from OR turned up unexpectedly this morning at 8am, saying they'd come about the blocked ducts. 

After about half an hour, I went out to see what what happening, and they said "The ducts are blocked".  I pointed out that we already knew this after the OR guys came last time, and I'd assumed the purpose of this visit was to rectify the problem.  They then started talking about digging up hedges, and decided that they needed a supervisor to visit, after which they sat in their van for a short while, then disappeared, and I've not seen them since.

I'm beginning to wonder if this is all worthwhile.

[peasblossom]

My solace in that situation, Simon, would be that at least we have Brian.

[Postal]

I can't see how that would work without having two routers as the Voip has to be connected physically to the router for it to work.

Don't think that is the case.  A VoIP service from another provider is just another internet connection (like going to another web-site).  Some routers then have the decoding firmware inside and a phone socket, other routers need you to put an ATA into one of the ethernet sockets then the phone into the ATA.  You then have to register your VoIP device (in the same way as you have to log in to your registered account to visit some web-sites) and that should be it done.

The caveat is that some VoIP providers (for example BT/EE) have custom firmware built into their own supplied routers; third party routers used on those networks cannot access the VoIP provided by the ISP.  Not a problem in the other direction if you have a BT/EE connection and want to use someone like A&A as the VoIP provider as their credentials will work through the BT/EE Hub.

[Clive]

My router has a phone socket installed.  The IDNet phone package was superb as it included almost all countries in the world. 

[peasblossom]

So, A+A can take over the phone line if my broadband is full fibre, but not otherwise. May well get back to them on this. (Pesky mail client stuck their first reply into the spam folder. Tsk, tsk.) I don't use my landline much but I like having the option so I don't mind paying for it. And what A+A charge is peanuts.

[Postal]

So, A+A can take over the phone line if my broadband is full fibre, but not otherwise. May well get back to them on this. (Pesky mail client stuck their first reply into the spam folder. Tsk, tsk.) I don't use my landline much but I like having the option so I don't mind paying for it. And what A+A charge is peanuts.

The whole issue is giving a lot of people problems but in reality there are only a few things to consider.  VoIP is just another piece of internet connectability and is available anywhere that has an internet connection be that fibre, VDSL (what the ISPs mendaciously sold to us a fibre when it still relies on copper to supply the service to the house) or ADSL.  There is no inherent relationship between VoIP and FTTP.

Under the OFCOM rules of engagement, where you have an ISP supplying broadband and phone in tandem then requesting a port of the number to another supplier ceases the phone line connection from the losing provider.  If your broadband comes down the same wire as your phone that automatically means that your broadband is ceased when the phone connection is ceased.  When you say that you like having the option of the landline I presume that what you actually mean is that you like the option of having a landline number which you can make available to people wishing to contact you - and there is a generational issue that older people have been used to the landline system for so many years that they instinctively still contact people by landline rather than mobile.

Where does that leave us?  You can go to VoIP at any time.  If you port your landline number to another supplier your existing supplier will cease your phone and broadband.

What options are there to get round that? 

You can move your complete broadband and phone package to a supplier who sells VoIP like A&A.

You can port your number to an independent supplier of VoIP which gives you lots of options so that you can have for example all of your "landline" calls received by phones in the house and your mobile at the same time,  That will cease your existing broadband so you will have to order a new internet service without any phone (SOGEA in technical jargon).  This may mean you are without broadband if the parallel processes get out of sync.  It may also mean cancellation charges on the existing connection.

You can see if your ISP will sell you a SOGEA service and provide VoIP phone.  If so you should be able to make a simple transfer through the ISP.

You can order a new broadband and phone service on a second landline to the house (so likely to incur installation charges), make sure that works OK then port your landline number to a VoIP service which will cease the original line.  You access the VoIP through your new internet connection.  This may incur cancellation charges on the exiting connection and you will be making monthly payments for 2 services until you are happy to change over.  This process is also the best process to follow if you can move to FTTP in order to avoid the possibility of being without service if the process misses a beat during the transfer.

There is a lot to be said for moving the existing landline number to an independent VoIP supplier as that breaks the link between the supply of broadband and the supply of phone.  That does require a bit more work and possibly a little more expense as systems are run in tandem until you are sure that everything works.  You also need to check whether the new VoIP provider has systems in place to port out your number if you wish to change VoIP supplier.

Whichever way you go forward it is important that you remove any connection between VoIP and FTTP from your thinking processes.

[peasblossom]

I do, however, want to get to FTTP at some point so for that purpose at least the two are connected. I've signed up to be alerted when full fibre broadband is finally available for this home.

[stan]

I'll promise to try to be brief ....
Simon and Peablossom and myself have been chatting on the other thread entitled     New UBOSS VOIP service in addition to CENTREX
which is within Networks and routers

May I ask one reasonably straightforward question addressed to Postal please.....

As we know AAISP (or A&A)  offer, for around £44.40p , a thing called :-  Broadband Number Porting  Renumber and export of a phone number used for broadband

I cant  be sure |I fully understand insofar as ....  if, say, I upgrade my current Idnet ADSL contract to either a one month or a 12 month Idnet FTTP ..... but then wish to avail myself of AAISP's VOIP service at £1.40 a month can I use this £44.40 service to bring my existing landline number away from Idnet and over to AAISP and pay them the appropriate monthly sum (£1.40) plus call charges.

I have read and re-read their description but haven't grasped whether by doing so the aforementioned porting procedure would automatically cease the Idnet contract. I understand AAISP do have a simple alternative porting option at around £15 but presume that would definitely cease the Idnet broadband and phone plan straight away.

I was on the phone to AAISP today but didn't ask that specific question .... the advisor would definitely have told me as he was supremely helpful ... but it's the weekend now and impatience has become me.

I would, ordinarily, not hesitate to go with A&A as I suspect their service is as good as Idnet (and their VOIP phone plan even better) .... and have both their FTTP and VOIP phone plan but the router they supply (Technicolour 4134 or 4135) might, according to several sources, just possibly, not be the best in the world and I don't want to give myself grief if it's avoidable. Even the A&A adisor did say it doesn't have the very best WI-FI performance but it's the best one they offer (and they don't offer many). My local computer engineer that I would go to for service and repair at home was rather disparaging of that router too which doesn't help.

If I stayed with Idnet and swapped over to FTTP plus UBOSS VOIP phone I could choose from a number of ASUS models hence I'm wondering if an ASUS would be a better option which means staying with Idnet (not the end of the world!)

Anyway, maybe I'm overthinking the whole affair and I hereby place myself at the mercy of fellow contributors - all of whom will be better informed than I.

Ta.

[Postal]

First thing to remember is that by December 2025 everybody whose current phone service is provided through a BT wire will be on VoIP.  The existing PSTN service is being turned off by then.  That is not connected in anyway with the rollout of FTTP.  Existing providers will either have to arrange for customers to migrate to VoIP or tell them that service can no longer be provided.  If the service is maintained it may be via the existing providers VoIP service or a third party.  If you are moved to FTTP you have the same situation as there is no PSTN service through a fibre optic connection.  The notes below are to cover the situation where people want to get ahead of the forced migration which will happen to them through their existing ISP by December2025.

If you have a typical contract with an ISP you have signed up to a broadband service and a phone service.  On FTTC both services are provided over the phone line.  If you wish to port your number to another provider that automatically ceases the phone line.  The loss of internet service is collateral damage (but you cannot avoid it).  You have to make alternative arrangements for a new internet service without phone (SOGEA).  To try and minimise the effect you can sign up to a VoIP provider before making any other change.  The VoIP service will give you a phone number which you don't need to use.  Once you have the arrangements in place for a broadband only service you can then port your existing number to the VoIP service (and hope that the number port and new broadband only service happen in sync).  OfCOM now mandate that if things get out of sync you have 30 days after the cessation of service to transfer your landline number to another provider (which will be the VoIP service of your choice).

For your A&A / IDNet question you would need to talk to IDNet to see if you can transfer to a SOGEA service if the phone number is ported away.  If they will do that then things should be very simple.  If they cannot then you would need to order a SOGEA service from someone else then port your phone number to A&A.  People on 12 or 24 month contracts may get hit with cancellation charges if the changeover happens mid-contract.

In regard to which router you should use most ISPs will provide with the necessary details so you can use a router of your own choice rather than one provided (although the tech support will normally only deal with any issues if you are connected using one of their supplied models).  You use your own router but put the provided router in the cupboard to connect if there is a problem you need to take up with the ISP.

[stan]

I'll sit and digest the above, Postal. Ta.

[Simon]

I have some friends who were provided with a Technicolour router by their ISP (not A&A).  Admittedly they are in a large old house with thick brick walls, but they've had to use WiFi extenders to get decent coverage around the house. 

Also, they've had one or two issues where the VoIP phone connection has dropped, and they've needed to reboot the router to get it up and running again.  This only became apparent when they tried to make an outgoing call, but may have missed some incoming calls whilst the phones were down.

I'm not guaranteeing that the router was the problem, but I think these things are worth bearing in mind.

[Clive]

My VoIP line was crackly when it was first installed but it turned out  to be a faulty router which was replaced free of charge. 

[stan]

I have some friends who were provided with a Technicolour router by their ISP (not A&A).  Admittedly they are in a large old house with thick brick walls, but they've had to use WiFi extenders to get decent coverage around the house. 

Also, they've had one or two issues where the VoIP phone connection has dropped, and they've needed to reboot the router to get it up and running again.  This only became apparent when they tried to make an outgoing call, but may have missed some incoming calls whilst the phones were down.

I'm not guaranteeing that the router was the problem, but I think these things are worth bearing in mind.

That's the type of thing I've been warned about.  The local engineer I spoke about has said the same ... he did also say that if I were to encounter WI FI difficulties he would advise allowing him to fit BT Whole Home discs (a sort of booster or extender). 

However A&A are not amateurs or shysters and I find it hard to believe they would risk their good name by supplying a router that isn't up to the the job.

For me one of the main differences between the two ISPs in question is that Idnet offer a choice of FTTP compliant routers (including ASUS) whereas A&A  only offer Technicolour .
They do say We offer a free router on our broadband services when you sign up with a 12 months term. We offer a discounted basic router when you choose 1 month or 6 month terms. Our customers are welcome to use their own equipment.  but, of course, they won't be disposed to offer me tech. support on such a thing and I'd be on my own.

[Simon]

As I just said in the other thread, I'm now looking at the TP-Link VX230v available from IDNet, which does have an FXS port, so that would simplify matters when I come to switch the phone over. 

[stan]

Simon .... that TP Link router (£59.99) was mentioned to me by the first Idnet advisor I spoke to the other day. She said you might as well have the cheapest as they all do the same job but I'm not so sure about that. 
At the time I, too, thought it would be a suitable solution however I asked the local engineer (mentioned above) about TP Link routers. In fact that was the main reason I rang him - to get his opinion on various routers that he has had experience with.  I can only summarise his response but suffice to say he wasn't happy. He regarded them as cheap and cheerful ... but not actually cheerful. He said, you pays yer money and takes yer choice. You get what you pay for.

I'm as confused as you are, Simon. I genuinely am.

[Simon]

As you said about A&A supplying the Technicolour, I wouldn't have thought IDNet would have wanted to supply a troublesome router, as it would just lead to problems. 

I currently have a TP-Link mesh WiFi system, so the router should also work well with that. 

It seems a bit of a no-brainer to get a router with an FXS port, rather than having to spend out on a separate adapter.  If the price you mentioned is correct, that would actually be cheaper than the Asus I've ordered.

[stan]

I fully appreciate the logic of your thinking, Simon.  It's like so many other things in life ... three people - three different opinions.  I shall carry on head scratching.


The price I quoted is that shown on Idnet's website but is the "discounted" price that applies only if you take a 12 month contract out.  You can see that price if you go to the site and apply for a broadband contract and select the 12 month option and continue completing the online form until such a point as you need to put your payment details in .... and at that point you just withdraw form the "application".