FTTP New Installation Process

[Simon]

Yeah, that's fine, Stan.  I've already placed the order for the Asus router, which was at the discounted price, so they should let me swap and have the TP-Link instead.

I guess one of the higher spec'd Asus routers would have the required FXS port, but I really don't like those ones that look like an upturned spider, and also, for practically, it would be better for me to have a vertical standing model, so in that, the TP-Link fits the bill.

[stan]

I've looked reasonably long and hard and can't see any Asus routers with an FXS port attached.

[Simon]

There don't seem to be that many of them about.  Seems odd, given that's the way things are going. 

[robinc]

I've looked reasonably long and hard and can't see any Asus routers with an FXS port attached.

That's 'cos they're dumping all the old ones without the FXS port at discount prices - before they come up with the "Get Ready for Dec 2025 - UPGRADE NOW!!!! " new models in about 3 month time 

[Clive]

Smart thinking!   

[Simon]

So, I've swapped the Asus router I ordered for the TP-Link one with the FXS port, which was actually £41 cheaper.  I'm somewhat suspicious that it won't live up to expectation as it seems too good to be true to get a router with an FXS port cheaper than for one without, but we shall see.

[stan]

Thanks very much, Simon, for letting us know what you've done.

Trust me, I fully understand the thought processes you're having at the moment.  I completely understand your misapprehension about going for a device that, on the face of it, has extra features but is so much cheaper.

Had an Asus router been available that DID have one or two FXS phone ports built in then, if I'd been in your position, I'd have gone for it ... and you probably would too ...but there isn't one so we can't.

And if I were to move away from Idnet over to A&A I find myself in exactly the same position insofar as A&A only supply Technicolour and Zyxel and no higher grade routers. The Technicolours they supply do have two FXS phone ports, same as your TP Link router does have an FXS port to accept your DECT base station.

I've looked long and hard at the reviews and reports regarding various grades of router and honestly am no better informed than when I started other than to accept that if you pay more for a mid to upper grade router you stand a better chance of better performance than if you get a cheap one.  And that doesn't help you or I coz you don't seem to be able to get mid or upper grade routers with built in FXS ports.  That just leaves the option of an ATA and, in your case you've decided against one of them so we now simply hope that the TP Link serves its purpose. There's always the option to use an extender if you needed better wi fi coverage.

I emailed Idnet yesterday and got a reply today (good service). They confirmed the price of keeping my ADSL plan and the existing phone plan that I have with them. The cost for both at renewal in a couple months time is £39 a month if paid annually. Presumably more if I have a monthly plan (I should have asked). They also confirmed what we already knew about the cost of FTTP but it was useful to know I've understood the costings correctly as per the website information. 

I'll be interested to follow your progress, Simon.

[Simon]

Regarding using a WiFi extender, I already have a TP-Link two-station Mesh system up and running, so I'm assuming that will work well with the new router. 

I purposely haven't read reviews.  I realise that can be a little naive, but without additional expense, I don't really have another option than the TP-Link, so I will just judge this one on personal experience.

[Simon]

OR were supposed to be here today to do the 'civil works' but no sign of them appearing yet.  As I didn't have an official appointment and this was just an ETA from IDNet, if I go out, which I have to, I hope they won't try to charge me for not being home. 

One other thing I'm a little concerned about is the eventual positioning of the internal box.  I want it where the old one is, which is obviously near a phone socket near my PC station.  The external box is hopefully being installed where the current copper phone line enters the property, and as this is the master socket (even though it's downstairs and the living accommodation is upstairs), I'm hoping there will be an existing route from that socket to the phone socket near where I want the router?  I realise the phone sockets themselves aren't used for the FTTP, but what are the chances of existing wiring routes being utilised?

[NigelC]

OR were supposed to be here today to do the 'civil works' but no sign of them appearing yet.  As I didn't have an official appointment and this was just an ETA from IDNet, if I go out, which I have to, I hope they won't try to charge me for not being home. 

One other thing I'm a little concerned about is the eventual positioning of the internal box.  I want it where the old one is, which is obviously near a phone socket near my PC station.  The external box is hopefully being installed where the current copper phone line enters the property, and as this is the master socket (even though it's downstairs and the living accommodation is upstairs), I'm hoping there will be an existing route from that socket to the phone socket near where I want the router?  I realise the phone sockets themselves aren't used for the FTTP, but what are the chances of existing wiring routes being utilised?

"Civils" might not need an appointment, as its "spades outside", unless they need access into a locked field/garden.     
Installing the fibre is usually a two-step process - there's the job of getting fibre thorough duct/poles, and arriving as a coil of spare fibre at your house wall.  And a second job of fitting the internal fibre termination box and connecting the fibre to the internal termination box. 
Outside, when finished (second job), is a small plastic box, approx 6in square by 1 in deep.  That contains the surplus fibre (would round a spool) and a junction in the fibre to a shorter piece which goes into the house.  Inside the house, is a small fibre box, size of a square wall plate (single main socket, PSTN plate, light switch, etc..), which requires power (3-pin power brick is supplied by OpenReach).  Leaving that box is ethernet cable, with a theoretical run limit around 1000m (large stately home?) to the router. 

No chance of using existing internal house phone wiring for networking:  wrong number of cores, incorrect wire arrangement.   Might be possible to pull a new ethernet cable through the ducts, that depends how the phone extensions were installed, and particularly access to corners/bends, which are often very tight in domestic wiring.    If you want that arrangement, start investigating how to do it now. 

You may want to ask the installer of the second part whether they can install into your preferred location;  that would likely happen by running things externally, then in through a wall at the final place.   

[Simon]

So, what I've got is a single storey flat with garages underneath.  At the rear of the property is a cupboard which houses the electric and gas meters, plus the incoming phone point and also the communal TV feeds (Freeview / Sky).  From this cupboard, there must be a route for the wiring to feed up to the internal TV and phone points above, and that's what I was hoping they could somehow use to pull the FTTP wiring through. 

I'll have to talk to them when they arrive to fit the external box, assuming this will be separate to the civil works.  If my plan isn't an option, then I'll have to have another rethink on the location of the external box, as obviously I don't want the internal wiring trailing all through the flat.

[Simon]

I've just had an update from IDNet and it seems now that OR's 'field engineers' are next on the list to come out and assess the situation.

I'm genuinely starting to wonder if I'd be better off just staying as I am on FTTC.  This whole FTTP thing seems a hell of a lot of disruption, what with blocked ducting, external and internal boxes requiring installation, and drilling through walls.

How long will it be before it's all redundant when everything becomes WiFi?  I'm sure it can't be that far away that you connect to the internet in much the same way as we currently connect to mobile networks.  A box distributing WiFi to a neighbourhood doesn't seem all that far fetched. 

If I stay as I am, all it will mean is that I will need to get a new router by the end of 2025 to switch the phone to VoIP.  At the moment, that seems a far more attractive proposition than all the drama of trying to get FTTP.

[stan]

Understood, Simon.

Keep us informed.

[Simon]

Another reluctant consideration is to go with the company that's already installed their fibre 'lines' (?) and blocked the ducting in doing so. It would seem logical that if their pipes are already in place it would just be a question of running the cable to my property. 

But, I've not heard many reports about their reliability and I really don't want to leave IDNet.

[stan]

Remind me who that was?
(I have trouble keeping up with the plot)

[Simon]

I've not mentioned them before.  I believe they're called Swish Fibre, but there were several companies installing fibre in the area a couple of years ago, so I'm not even sure it's them.

[stan]

I used to be indecisive  but now I'm not so sure   

[zappaDPJ]

Swish Fibre are very highly regarded and quite affordable. FTTP has finally caught up with the modern world where loyalty counts for nothing and you can save literally hundreds of pounds by switching to a new provider every so often.

[Bill]

BT seem to have little interest in bringing FTTP to my area yet ("Build planned between now and Dec-2026"... helpful, not ). I can get fibre from an AltNet, but with CGNAT and no IPv6 it's not a proper internet connection in my view and FTTC is fast enough for my needs so I'll just wait. I don't really want to leave IDNet either.

That leaves the phone, I can't ignore that for another three years. I decided some while back that VOIP was too likely to make my aged brain hurt, so I decided the easy way out was to ditch the landline number and just use the mobile. I think I've got all of my contacts updated (can't remember the last incoming landline call that wasn't spam!) so I'll wait a few months just to be a bit more sure then SOGEA here I come 

As an Apple user I sure won't miss calls at 7:30am from Microsoft telling me about suspicious activity on my line!

[zappaDPJ]

As an Apple user I sure won't miss calls at 7:30am from Microsoft telling me about suspicious activity on my line!

Before we ditched the landline we only ever got calls from people trying to rob us and multiple calls from the mother-in-law so it was a double win

[Simon]

I'm seriously considering ditching the whole idea, but I guess there's an argument that these ducts are going to need unblocking at some point, so better to get it done now, rather than wait for problems, or until I'm forced to?  Also, it will be at OR's expense if I have it done now - would that necessarily be the case in the future, once they realise just how much work is involved in rolling out FTTP across the country?

I don't want to derail this into another detailed discussion, but say I stayed on FTTC - would I just need to buy an FXS enabled router (such as the TP-Link I've ordered from IDNet) when the eventual switch to VoIP becomes inevitable?

[stan]

As you know my neighbour opposite had a crushed duct. It took a while to get it fixed but, credit where it's due, OR got a grip and the actual repair was carried out professionally and neatly and it does mean he knows any future requirement to pass a cable from the pavement underground chamber to his house would be uneventful. He was cursing while the delays carried on waiting for FTTP but he's glad he had it done now and pleased with his fibre.

[Simon]

I'm not in any hurry, but I wish they'd actually let me know when they're coming.  If it's going to be significant work, then I want to be here, but also, I don't really want an unexpected visit at 8 in the morning!  So far they haven't actually stuck to any of the projected dates. 

[Postal]

I've just had an update from IDNet and it seems now that OR's 'field engineers' are next on the list to come out and assess the situation.

I'm genuinely starting to wonder if I'd be better off just staying as I am on FTTC.  This whole FTTP thing seems a hell of a lot of disruption, what with blocked ducting, external and internal boxes requiring installation, and drilling through walls.

How long will it be before it's all redundant when everything becomes WiFi?  I'm sure it can't be that far away that you connect to the internet in much the same way as we currently connect to mobile networks.  A box distributing WiFi to a neighbourhood doesn't seem all that far fetched. 

If I stay as I am, all it will mean is that I will need to get a new router by the end of 2025 to switch the phone to VoIP.  At the moment, that seems a far more attractive proposition than all the drama of trying to get FTTP.

Then think on about what happens if you want to change ISPs.  If your new ISP is tied to a different fibre network then you have the same situation all over again and end up with two fibres coming into the house and two ONTs on your inside wall (and you cannot remove the redundant one as it is not your property and the losing network will insist that it stays there in case any new resident wants to return to that service).

In regard to neighbourhood WiFi, why would you need a new box to distribute neighbourhood WiFi when you already have a network doing exactly that with mobile signals?  You don't need a mobile phone to latch onto that, you need a bit of kit that talks in mobile network speak.  There are already lots of people who have adequate mobile phone signals who have ditched their landline completely, bought a modem/router designed to work with the mobile signal and now conduct all of their voice and internet business through that channel (and saving £10 or £20 a month) - and with VoIP you can even retain your old landline number if you wish.

Finally you don't have to get a new router by the end of 2025.  You can by an ATA (Analogue Telephone Adapter) which you can plug into your existing router and into which you plug your landline phone.

[Simon]

Then think on about what happens if you want to change ISPs.  If your new ISP is tied to a different fibre network then you have the same situation all over again and end up with two fibres coming into the house and two ONTs on your inside wall (and you cannot remove the redundant one as it is not your property and the losing network will insist that it stays there in case any new resident wants to return to that service).

In regard to neighbourhood WiFi, why would you need a new box to distribute neighbourhood WiFi when you already have a network doing exactly that with mobile signals?  You don't need a mobile phone to latch onto that, you need a bit of kit that talks in mobile network speak.  There are already lots of people who have adequate mobile phone signals who have ditched their landline completely, bought a modem/router designed to work with the mobile signal and now conduct all of their voice and internet business through that channel (and saving £10 or £20 a month) - and with VoIP you can even retain your old landline number if you wish.

Finally you don't have to get a new router by the end of 2025.  You can by an ATA (Analogue Telephone Adapter) which you can plug into your existing router and into which you plug your landline phone.

So, are you suggesting I'd be better off staying as I am?

I guess the argument to the first part is, what if I'm still on FTTC and want to change ISP?  Most probably won't be offering a new FTTC contract now, so I would then be forced to go to FTTP in any case.