FTTP New Installation Process

[armadillo]

I don't think I'm thread-hijacking but am happy to start a new thread if the OP feels that I am. Seems sensible to add to the current thread.

Does anyone know exactly what external work Openreach do to mount the FTTP External Junction Box (EJB) on the outside of the house and connect it to the fibre network in the street?
And can cable be routed outside the house between the EJB and the ONT box?
Openreach have some very basic information https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/full-fibre-broadband-installation-checklist#accordion-b43490109a-item-56113228ba
but it does not have much detail.

I currently have FTTC from IDnet and had the email suggesting I convert to FTTP before the panic date - my street is fibre-ready. There are no poles in the street. All connections to premises are underground. Openreach have laid fibre from the exchange all the way along the street and the road has been fully resurfaced by the council too!

But my present copper connection from the FTTC EJB to the internal termination box runs round the outside of the house, up into the attic and along there to a little hole in the ceiling and down into my office at the back of the house where the router is. My PCs are connected to the router by a metre or so of ethernet cable (ground floor, it's a bungalow).
I would want the FTTP connection to follow that route or go up and over the garage and round the other side of the house to the office, through the wall to the new ONT box.

I have had a million emails with a very patient IDNet support and they first said I could pay (presumably Openreach) for a survey, good idea. When I said to go ahead, they came back and said Openreach won't do a survey for FTTP and I have to wait for the engineer to arrive on the day of the installation and if they can't do what I want, I have to pay a chunk of money to send them away again. I don't know what would happen after that.

So can anyone explain what Openreach do to make the undergound connection from street to premises? And how could they do that without first visiting the property? The whole thing seems to me to be a big disaster waiting to happen.

[Simon]

I wasn't even aware that a box would be required on the outside of the property. 

When I was younger I used to get frustrated with elderly relatives who couldn't or wouldn't adapt to new technologies.  Now I know exactly what they were feeling!

[Clive]

We have our boxes fitted outside the properties but there is a gap in the fibre network that prevents the installation from being completed.   

[Simon]

I've split this into a new thread, as I think it would be useful to separate discussions around the actual installation process, from those considering options but have not yet gone ahead.

I have just taken the plunge and ordered FTTP from IDNet.  It's the basic UltraFast 100 (FTTP 115/20) service on a 12 month contract at £36 per month.  For the time being, I am leaving my phone on the old conventional landline service.

I placed the order and requested an installation date around the end of January, as that's when I am currently paid up to with my existing FTTC service.  Despite previously wanting to use my existing router, I have ordered an ASUS RT-AX59U from IDNet, as I've read that my old router should be compatible, but might be tricky to configure to the new service.  At least if I have a new router then they can't blame my hardware for any potential problems. 

Following placing the order, I had all the relevant confirmation emails from IDNet, and then I received an automated phone call from Openreach, confirming that they would at some point be coming out to fit the box to the outside of the property.  I had options to choose whether I wanted to be present when they arrived, or not, and I chose 'not', but I'm beginning to slightly regret that decision and I'm just hoping that they fit the box in the right location, as my property is a first floor coach house above garages.

So that's as far as I've got so far, and will update this thread with any progress. 

What I'd like to know at this point is, when Openreach come into the property to install whatever they need to install, what is the actual process and how much disruption does it cause?  Do they need to fit the box close to the phone socket, and if not, once I eventually switch to a VoIP phone service, does the phone then need to be relocated to where the internal box is?  Presumably they need to drill through the wall to connect the outer box to the box inside?  Some insight into this process would be appreciated.

[nowster]

Do they need to fit the box close to the phone socket, and if not, once I eventually switch to a VoIP phone service, does the phone then need to be relocated to where the internal box is?  Presumably they need to drill through the wall to connect the outer box to the box inside?  Some insight into this process would be appreciated.

The ONT can be fitted anywhere with an outside wall access. Usually they mount the outside box on the outside wall directly lined up with the ONT inside, to minimise the likelihood of fibre damage.

The VoIP phone needs to connect to your router using ethernet, not to the ONT.

[zappaDPJ]

I think it's worth mentioning the ONT needs to be powered.

[Simon]

The ONT can be fitted anywhere with an outside wall access. Usually they mount the outside box on the outside wall directly lined up with the ONT inside, to minimise the likelihood of fibre damage.

The VoIP phone needs to connect to your router using ethernet, not to the ONT.

I can work with that but it could all be a little untidy indoors as my PC / Phone station isn't near an outside wall.  I guess I'll just have to run cables from where the ONT is to where the router lives. 

Secondly, I am slightly concerned that Openreach will arrive and fit the outside box while I'm not in.  If they fit it in the vicinity of the lounge window, that will be fine, but they'll have a choice of six windows, so the chances of them picking the optimum location are minimal.  I really wish I hadn't authorised them to fit the outside box while I wasn't in, as it may only be luck now that I catch the engineer when he arrives.

[Simon]

I think it's worth mentioning the ONT needs to be powered.

Yeah, I have in mind behind the TV, where there are plenty of power sockets. 

[Simon]

The other thing is, how does the box on the wall outside connect to the cabinet or whatever it needs to connect to in the road?  Are they going to have to dig the lawn up?   

[Clive]

Something like that Simon.  But don't worry about it because you won't see any trace of the cable.  The box outside your front door will be connected to a very thin ethernet cable which will be glued around the wall to the router.  It's so fine you won't see it but you will need to take care when you decorate.  Installation takes about 90 minutes.  I don't want to be a Job's comforter but I believe they will do the whole town rather than individual properties.  You may have to wait till they get to your area.   

[Simon]

It's all ordered and confirmed, Clive.  So I think they must already be in my area. 

I was more concerned about how the box on the outside of the property connects to whatever it needs to connect to, which I believe is underground. 

[nowster]

The other thing is, how does the box on the wall outside connect to the cabinet or whatever it needs to connect to in the road?  Are they going to have to dig the lawn up?   

It can follow your existing phone line wire. The outside box is just a junction box. From there they run a thin optical fibre tail to the ONT inside.

[Simon]

OK, I'm slowly getting my head around it.  The problem might be that my phone line enters the property downstairs at the back,  but I'd want the internal box positioned upstairs at the front. 

Could they, theoretically, install the outside box in the downstairs cupboard where the phone line comes in, then feed the cable upstairs through the existing path of the phone line?

[nowster]

Could they, theoretically, install the outside box in the downstairs cupboard where the phone line comes in, then feed the cable upstairs through the existing path of the phone line?

Theoretically, they could install it outdoors next to where the phone line enters, but the fibre is fragile with a minimum bend radius. It might be better for them to route the tail outside the building up to where the ONT is being installed. I'm just hypothesising here. I've not chatted with any OpenReach engineers about this.

There's something here: https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/full-fibre-broadband-installation-checklist

[nowster]

https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/fttp-full-fibre-broadband-installation

And for the really technical: https://www.openreach.com/content/dam/openreach/openreach-dam-files/new-dam-(not-in-use-yet)/documents/help-support/How-to-build-a-fibre-network-Sept-23.pdf

[zappaDPJ]

My understanding is they prefer to position the external junction box as close to the ONT as possible for reasons given by nowster and because there is also a maximum limit for the cable length.

For what it's worth (and of no particular help) my entire area has recently been upgraded to FTTP and I'd say 99% of the external junction boxes are at pavement level even though the connecting cables originate from a telegraph pole. It seems to me that they have simply followed the original service route.

Strangely our FTTP comes in from underground instead of one of the bazillion telegraph poles in the area

To be honest your best bet might be to change the appointment so that you can talk to the engineer because I do believe there is some flexibility within the system.

[Simon]

Theoretically, they could install it outdoors next to where the phone line enters, but the fibre is fragile with a minimum bend radius. It might be better for them to route the tail outside the building up to where the ONT is being installed. I'm just hypothesising here. I've not chatted with any OpenReach engineers about this.

There's something here: https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/full-fibre-broadband-installation-checklist

I had actually seen that link, and this is the bit I can't get my head around:

How do we connect the external junction box?
We connect the 15cm x 13cm external junction box to the Openreach fibre network using a fibre optic cable. Depending on your property, the cable will either run from underground or from a telegraph pole. In both cases, the cable runs directly from one of our exchanges.

In my case it would run from underground, but that still doesn't explain how the connection is established.  Presumably they've got to dig something up to get the fibre cable from underground to the property.

[Simon]

My understanding is they prefer to position the external junction box as close to the ONT as possible for reasons given by nowster and because there is also a maximum limit for the cable length.

If they position the external box at street level, they'd then have to somehow run the cable to the first floor, as my flat is above garages. 

To be honest your best bet might be to change the appointment so that you can talk to the engineer because I do believe there is some flexibility within the system.

I did mention that to IDNet, and they said the only way to do that would be to cancel the whole thing and start again.  I can only see that as a recipe for disaster so I think I'll just have to hope that I'm here when the engineer calls, and that they don't call unannounced.

[Simon]

Come to think of it, there must be an existing route for the current copper phone line to reach the property from underground, so maybe they could use that?

[zappaDPJ]

The most likely scenario is they will attempt to take the same route as your existing installation. If that's not possible they will either dig a trench or use a telegraph pole if one exists.

[Clive]

It says mine is not available at the moment so that is why I had to leave IDNet.  I'm only paying £15 a month for the first two years and that's for 150Mps.  I can get 900mps for £25 a month. 

[Simon]

Well, Openreach came out today to do the work outside in preparation for the internal installation.  They fitted the box where I wanted it which is good, but apparently the duct which goes from my property to the bit it needs to go to underground, has been blocked by other companies installing their Fibre cables, so this needs to be cleared in order for them to install mine.  🤨

The guy said he's submitted the paperwork for 'them' to come out and clear the ducts, but I'm not sure who 'them' is and how long that will take.  Otherwise they'll apparently have to get permission from the estate management company to start digging stuff up.  Why is nothing ever simple?  🫤

[zappaDPJ]

Sounds typical.

We had a rogue cable issue a few weeks ago after a storm brought down multiple cables, all of which ended up trailing across our property including the roof. After a week of phoning around nobody wanted take responsibility for them so I removed them myself. I have no idea what they were for but they were that robust I needed bolt croppers to cut through them. I'm still alive so I'm assuming they weren't connected to the national grid

[Simon]

Sounds typical.

We had a rogue cable issue a few weeks ago after a storm brought down multiple cables, all of which ended up trailing across our property including the roof. After a week of phoning around nobody wanted take responsibility for them so I removed them myself. I have no idea what they were for but they were that robust I needed bolt croppers to cut through them. I'm still alive so I'm assuming they weren't connected to the national grid

No but that new spiky hair-do suits you.   

[zappaDPJ]

 

I did wear a pair of Marigolds and stand on a rubber mat because I've never seen cable like it before. There were multiple inner cores wrapped in a thick outer sheathing which in turn was wrapped in high tensile steel wire.