Hi new customer here... few concerns though.

[Richdog]

Hi guys,

Some of you may recognise my username form ADSL Guide, been posting there a bit lately, but thought i'd register here and say hello considering this is the main IDNutters site.

Anyway I moved from a sub-par Ace (r.i.p) to IDNet based on reccommendations and reputation and just have a  few queries.  I realise that my 10-day training period is not yet finished (though I hear speeds should stabilise after 3 days) but despite my router synching at up to 2.4MB I am seeing absolutely appalling speeds, today a speed test showed it at 239kbps... and the last couple of days previous to thid it has been 400kbps or lower, no to mention VERY frequent disconnections!

With Ace I was hitting 100kb/s download speeds on the first few days and it did remain pretty consistent until I changed.  I used to have a 1MB Virgin connection that averaged a stable 120kb/s so while I am reasonably far from the exchange, and my stats aren't fantastic, it is capable of 170kb/s+ as this was the max I hit on Ace.

I'm installing an ADSL faceplate next week so this should improve stability a bt but I can't help being a tad worried about these dreadful speeds and constant disconnections... I use the net a lot for work and play and can't afford to have loss of service like this.  Yesterday, it literally must have been on for a total of 2 hours, staying on for a few minutes and then disconnecting.  I still had the odd disconnection before migrating to IDNet, but only 1 or 2 a day.  As I am writing this I have 3 disconnections.

So yes, I understand I still in my training perod but intial impressions are worrying me... 300kbps and disconnecting frequently isn't a very encouraging start... and nothing has changed in my house besides migratng to IDNet.

Any words of comfort for a young chap?

[AvengerUK]

Hey richdog - welcome to the forums

These problems are typical of the 10 day period, and speeds are determind by contention at your exchange and your BRAS profile - not IDnet.
Your speeds should pick up after the 10 day period - i had similar problems during the period!.
Infact your Max speeds sound like mine, i assume with Ace you synced at around 2200kbs and got speeds of ~160? During the 10 day period expect your line to stay at around 400kbs, mine did, Towards to end of the period you may find that interleaving has been turned on, which means your line is more stable (Not faster) but it also adds ~10ms to pings.

[Richdog]

Hi Avenger,

Thanks for replying mate. I'm aware of the contention issues, it's just that compared to ACE's 10-day period the speeda are verrrry low.  And the constant disconnections... this is killing me, i've never seen it anything close to this bad.

With ACE I was averaging sub-100kb/s download speeds, usually 90kb/s... they only managed to get it running at close to its' full potential for 1 day... where I got a sustained 170kb/s.  Next day this dropped back down to what it was before... very odd.

Just out of interest what are your average download speeds?

Rich.

[AvengerUK]

Depends on the weather,
Currently im getting ~80kb/s - due to thunder storm the other day
I should start getting ~170kb/s in the next day or so, whenever my profile resets.

[Jeff]

Rich, you must wait until your MSR has been reset by BT. IDNet cannot do anything else until this has been done.

If you really need some reassurance, call IDNet free on 0800 0267 237 and ask for Miriam. She may not be able to do anything with your line but man, she`ll make u feel better!

[Richdog]

She may not be able to do anything with your line but man, she`ll make u feel better!

Not one of thos "fruity" phone lines is it? 

Still at a consistent 400kb too, been like this every day now.

[Scott]

Still at a consistent 400kb too, been like this every day now.

Patience...oh impetuous one !
[oh lordy Jeff...I'm off again !]

[Jeff]

 Should pan out OK Rich. If your still concerned, perform a BT Speedtest which should yield the same results. Be happy to talk you through how to do this if it`s new to you

[Richdog]

Should pan out OK Rich. If your still concerned, perform a BT Speedtest which should yield the same results. Be happy to talk you through how to do this if it`s new to you

Heh I know how to do a speed test and I wasn't blaming IDNet, just found it odd how with Ace I was on 1.4MB (according to Namesco speed test) for the first 10 days, and now it's 1/3 of that, seriously affecting my downloads.

Don't worry i'll be patient Jeff you cantankerous sod (I mean that in a loving, almost tender way), I just find it very annoying that's all as it's interfering with my gaming etc. 

[Scott]

.. cantankerous...

liking this boy's style already 

[Jeff]

 Hey, that`s three insults in as many days, nice going Rich

[Richdog]

Hey, that`s three insults in as many days, nice going Rich

Three...?

[Jeff]

Aye, and pound to a penny you wouldn`t go for number 4 if I was standing right next to you

[Richdog]

lol I wouldn't be too sure about that me old mucker, making assumptions aboput people on the net is always a bad thing, you should know that by now lol. 

Anyway pointless posturing aside, connection is still a solid 450kb... going to install an NTE5 socket (an an etension) as per the excellent guide in the tips section, see if this improves things after the 10-days is up.

[mrapoc]

i got that a lot, even after the 10 days but now it seems mature. jeez ive meissed a LOT of posts

[Richdog]

i got that a lot, even after the 10 days but now it seems mature. jeez ive meissed a LOT of posts

Funny thing is my connection has been faultless alld ay... i've been downloading the whole time (albeit at a cr*p speed) without any hiccups so that's a good thing.  I just hope that on Monday the speed situation is sorted out as my router is constantly synching at 2MB+ and I have seen 170kb/s on this line before...

*crosses fingers*

[Jeff]

lol @ Rich. Aye, I know, just ridin` yer ass boy, though not in a good way That was also a joke, I`m married and straight

Rich, we haven`t analysed any line stats from you yet, but I`m figuring through other posts that you are not only maximising your line potential with new wiring/faceplates etc but perhaps a new router to boot? This is all very good stuff and you know, should things perk up for you, it is possible for IDNet to arrange another 10 day training period so that your MSR may be reset which in turn (hopefully) will get you an even better sync rate.

Ultimately though m8, everyone on Max has what BT deem a FTR which means Fault Threshold Rate. This means that if your throughput (what your actual download speed is) is 30% or more, lower than what you sync at, it is considered a fault. So if after your 10 day training period, and for example, you are synced at 2.4Mbit, your throughput should be at least 1.68Mbit. If it is not, IDNet will raise it as a fault with BT ... and BT will definately fix it ... yeah right

I feel your pain m8, my exchange has not been brilliant for nearly a year now where previously it was sublime for 3 solid years. It means that I can be synced at my usual ca. 6.5Mbit, but throughput varies. Last night it was blazing, now, well it`s not fantastic, but I don`t notice it so much on Max. My line sync gives me the potential of 600+KB/sec downloads depending on the server capabilities where I`m acquiring my download, but maybe it`s around 350KB/sec at this moment but hey, it`s more than enough for me and I`ve just had to accept that exchange congestion exists

[Richdog]

Hehe I know yer yanking my chain mate and I was doing the same in turn, just my cheeky Northern nature at work.

Funny you say that you can reset the MSR and restart the 10-day period... a friend just got point-blank refused when he asked Eclipse the same thing as they said they "couldn't do it", so to see you offer it will irk him I think.  Again, this is why I chose IDNet.

My connection seems incredibly stable now, the weekend is (was?) usually the wort time for drop-offs and it is running beautifully, so I think a new router may not be necessary, mine has a decent chip in it anyway I think.

Still synching at 2.2MB and connection is still a very consistent 500kb/s so I have a feeling that come the end of the 10-days that this is what i'm going to get.  My connection went live on the 21st so tommorrow is the end of that time.  I'll report back then in case my line magically jups up to the proper speeds lol.

Cheers Jeff.

[Richdog]

Well gentlemen it'S the 10th day and my line is still a solid 500kb despite my router synching at 2.2MB.

Advice?

[mrapoc]

give it a bit more  a couple of days after the training and ur speed will be revealed to you

[Richdog]

give it a bit more  a couple of days after the training and ur speed will be revealed to you

I have (self-proclaimed) ADSL gurus telling me that the max speeds are usually found after 4 days or so but that BT don't want fault reports within first 10 days... why would it take LONGER than 10 days to give me full speeds? 

[Gilba]

Give support a call if your worried.

Have you tried the BT speedtest to make sure.

It could be that your speed could be stuck.

[mrapoc]

i just found that after about 12 days i got the speed im gettin now

[Gilba]

I got my speed a couple of days if not straight away when I upgraded to Max.

But he has had 500kb/s since the start so it could be stuck.

[Richdog]

I got my speed a couple of days if not straight away when I upgraded to Max.

But he has had 500kb/s since the start so it could be stuck.

It's most definately stuck my friend, without a doubt, as numerous speed tests have confirmed.  Anyway, sent a she-male to IDNet and got a reply from Simon explaining why my connection could be fault-ering, and asking that I run another couple of speed tests.  I also have rebooted my router a fair few times due to ADSL/wireless drop-offs so whether that's a mistake that contributed to the current situation then who knows.

Off on hols for a week to france on thursday so will leave the router be and see how it fares when I get back.  If it's still crummy then i'll go through the fault reporting channels and fit the ADSL filter and new NTE-5 socket extension too in the hope that bring a bit of stability to my e-life.

[Jeff]

 Fingers crossed Rich :\

Reason why so many had mentioned about the 10 day Rambo training is simply because BT themselves will fail to acknowledge any sort of fault during this period. Usually, the majority of folk notice instant good throughput comparative of their sync. and within the 30% FTR but alas, there are one or two that have problems. Anyone with throughput problems must indeed perform a BT Speedtest to rule out IDNet congestion which in turn will allow IDNet to progress this as a fault to BT

[Richdog]

Ahh I see.  Well, I did two speed test last night and both were sub- 400kbps, did one this morning and it was just over 400kbps.  Been emailing that nice chap Si who is hopefully going to do all he can to get me a decent connection.

Just cross my fingers and pray... if I can't get them to do anything what the chuff am I going to have to do... go back to IPstream ADSL or something?  I know IDNet do that so maybe all isn't lost...

[Jeff]

Rich, was it a BT Speedtest you did? I will say this tho mate, IDNet don`t, afaihk suffer any form of network congestion and if your throughput is poor even if BT confirm that your line is up and running to the Max (pardon the pun ), if exchange congention is to blame then there ain`t anything anyone can do until BT add some more capacity at your exchange :\

[Simon_idnet]

Rich's problem is that his profile is set way lower than his sync rate, which appears to be stable. Therefore his throughput is limited at the BRAS.

While BT will recognise this situation as an 'anomoly' there is not, as yet, any procedure that BT have for fixing this (fairly common) problem. Miriam is pursuing Rich's case with BT but it rather depends on making contact with a BT person who is sympathetic AND who is able take action.
Simon

[Jeff]

Simon, is there any literature anywhere for referral? I`ve just mentioned to someone over at AG that they too may have the infamous BRAS profile syndrome

Maybe something we can add to our faq, even if it`s penned by a kind gaffer at IDNet?

[Richdog]

Well after some correspondence with the gentleman that is Simon, I was then scooped up by Miriam and held in tender loving arms while she whispered sweet sweet words about my ADSL connection.  Ahem.

Basically, after sopeaking to the BT ADSL MAX guru he says that providing my router stays at a stable 2.1MB for 3 days then my BRAS profile should adapt to match it, so all is not lost and hopefully by the time I come back from France (leaving on thursday for a week) I should be on a 1.6MB download profile.

Fingers, toes and tadgers are being crossed!

Also just wanted to say that Simon was answering emails to me at close to 10pm at night... which while I find utterly and stunningly  phenomenal in terms of service, I must insist that he get a bloomin social life or get down to the pub!  If you sit there answering emails all night mate you'll eventually go insane, leave it till the morning!

[Simon_idnet]

Hi Jeff

There is no literature because the situation should not occur. The DLM should ensure that the througput profile 'shadows' the line sync rate - if even with a 3-day lag.

I'll try to draft a paragraph or two for the FAQ.

Cheers
Simon

[Jeff]

Cheers m8

Rich, gl man

[Richdog]

Well, I have returned from the drivers hell that is Franceonly to find that... yep... my connection is still at a dreadful 0.5MB.  My connextion was stable before I went on holiday... not a hiccup... so I have no idea what the chuff is going on now.  I sent Miriam an email so hopefully she can shed some light on the situation.  One really unhappy IDNetter here...

[Jeff]

Rich, do a BT Speedtest when your IDNet throughput is pants, post back m8

[Richdog]

Rich, do a BT Speedtest when your IDNet throughput is pants, post back m8

Done it about 3x today mate, it ranges from 300-480k.

EDIT - Just did one for you mate, 430kbps.

[Jeff]

Exchange contention ... tough luck Bud

At least IDNet will have a bit leverage now with BT`s new 30% FTR ruling on Max products ... simple, you can report it is a line fault. Do it ... and report back here with details of how BT didn`t wanna know

[Richdog]

Exchange contention ... tough luck Bud

At least IDNet will have a bit leverage now with BT`s new 30% FTR ruling on Max products ... simple, you can report it is a line fault. Do it ... and report back here with details of how BT didn`t wanna know

Sad thing is I used to work for BT faults a few years ago... so I know i'm buggered.

[Richdog]

Aghh anyone know where I can get an IDC insertion tool from without having to order off the internet?  Homebase do one?

[Richdog]

Well, some interesting developments today.  Dad tried to do all the stuff with the faceplates but wasn't quite successful.  However, after fiddling with thre wires my synch speed has leapt from 2.2MB to a whopping 3.6MB... though my SNR is still the same.

Will hopefully try and sort it tommorrow... would disconnecting the ringwire help too?

[Gilba]

Your SNR is still the same because when you sync increased it used up some of the SNR.

With the ringwire, some people have said that it has improved their connection but some not.

[AvengerUK]

Well, some interesting developments today.  Dad tried to do all the stuff with the faceplates but wasn't quite successful.  However, after fiddling with thre wires my synch speed has leapt from 2.2MB to a whopping 3.6MB... though my SNR is still the same.

Will hopefully try and sort it tommorrow... would disconnecting the ringwire help too?

*quickly orders a faceplate* - do you have a linky to follow? (ie the one u got)

[Richdog]

Well, some interesting developments today.  Dad tried to do all the stuff with the faceplates but wasn't quite successful.  However, after fiddling with thre wires my synch speed has leapt from 2.2MB to a whopping 3.6MB... though my SNR is still the same.

Will hopefully try and sort it tommorrow... would disconnecting the ringwire help too?

*quickly orders a faceplate* - do you have a linky to follow? (ie the one u got)

It's the one form ADSL Nation mate the XTE2005.  Thing is though it's not currently connected lol... the connection is as it was before I bought the faceplate, the only thing thats changed is my dad has fiddles with the wiring in each extension box (ie: took wires out and put em back in).

Will try the ringwire tommorrow as well as connect the faceplate to see if it improves my SNR...

[AvengerUK]

So, basically, you messed around with the wires in your current faceplate (remove and replace the wires) - and your going to take out the ringwire to see if it helps? - Whats a ringwire?, im thinking of trying this myself but i dont have the faintist idea of what im doing :/

[maxping]

Here you go mate 

I've read comments over the last few months about people suffering with low SNR on their ADSL line. Some people have reported success by removing the ringwire from their BT master socket. I've never tried this idea before because I'd heard that the only real benefit was on the older styled star (or spur) telephone system. Since I live in a fairly new house I discounted the idea.
BT's web site has always said I should be able to get in excess of 3Mb on my ADSL line but I've only ever managed half that. Anyway, this weekend I decided to give it a go. I removed the orange ringwire from the master socket and all telephone extension points in the house. You don't need the ringwire since the dangly ADSL filters I've got plugged in around the house generate the ring for you.

With the ringwire attached my router used to sync at 2336, with the ringwire removed it now syncs at 3776. Quite an improvement eh. This should result in my stable rate increasing from 1.5 to 3.0Mb - in other words a doubling of my potential download speeds

[Richdog]

So, basically, you messed around with the wires in your current faceplate (remove and replace the wires) - and your going to take out the ringwire to see if it helps? - Whats a ringwire?, im thinking of trying this myself but i dont have the faintist idea of what im doing :/

The tragedy is that today IU learnt my ringwire was already disconnected at the main socket... my SNR is still a shocking 6 average despite this... unless i'm missing something.  My main socket is an old non-NTE5-stylee piece of junk too.

See this incredibly detailed guide for more answers on the ruingwire mate http://www.readman.dsl.pipex.com/other/UKphonecatwiring.htm

[AvengerUK]

Thanks for that!

[Richdog]

Thanks for that!

No problem, it was a god-send for my old man today.

[AvengerUK]

Im going to have a fiddle tonight!

Oh, and are there any risks to this? Im aware that you cant replace anything/remove anything of BT's - but apart from that...anything else? lol

[maxping]

Im going to have a fiddle tonight!

Too much info mate 

[AvengerUK]

Im going to have a fiddle tonight!

Too much info mate 

I think i sense a "dirty minded" one 

[maxping]

 

[AvengerUK]

Annoyingly, im not "allowed" to touch the master socket! - So, looks like ill be buying myself a speedtouch modem and tweaking it just to keep sync!

[Richdog]

Wow... since I got  "downgraded" back to 1MB Ipstream and my router has "settled" i'm seeing a massive difference in SNR... it's now 23db downstream!

ADSL MAX must have been killing my line stats, though downstreamattenuation is still very poor at 60.  Going to disconnect my bedroom and my dads bedroom extension sockets tommorrow... do you think this may make a difference too?

Rich.

[mrapoc]

so when do you reckon bt will ACTUALLY FIX max lol 

[Jeff]

though downstreamattenuation is still very poor at 60

Doesn`t matter a jot ... you`re synced at 1Mbit, 60 is well in for that. It could shoot to 50 and you would not notice a thing

[Richdog]

though downstreamattenuation is still very poor at 60

Doesn`t matter a jot ... you`re synced at 1Mbit, 60 is well in for that. It could shoot to 50 and you would not notice a thing

Yeah but I keep dreaming of 2MB lol.

[Jeff]

Hey, just move house man! 

[Richdog]

Hey, just move house man! 

lol, it's sorely tempting I tell ya!  Just out of interest what would actually happen if theoretically 2MB was enabled on my line with a current SNR of 25 and an att of 60?

[Jeff]

It wouldn`t sync, looploss is too high

[Richdog]

Hmm so Jeffmeister, another question if you will.  Can I get IDnet to limit the rate my router will synch at or is that only determined by the 10-day period?  What I can't understand is that while my BRAS was locked to 0.5MB, my SNR was still a despicable 6, dropping to 3.3 in the evenings.  Now i'm on a 1MB fixed my SNR is 4 times as high at 23!  Was the SNR determined by my router synch rate, despite my actual speed being half what it is now on regular 1MB?  or is there another reason my SNR was so low?

I'm a bit tentative in re-grading to MAX in case it does the same sort of thing.  It's confusing...

[Jeff]

my SNR was still a despicable 6, dropping to 3.3 in the evenings

Mate, that`s better than what I have ... honestly. My SNR is atm 1 but my router has been synced and solid at 6.5Mbit for 240 hours. Looploss is 48dB. From experience and from listening to learned folk, I believe my Netgear router allows me to enjoy a higher than I should have sync with such a low SNR.

Can I get IDnet to limit the rate my router will synch at

I had heard that ISPs could ask BT to set a maximum sync rate ... I`ll say again, I heard

What I can't understand is that while my BRAS was locked to 0.5MB

Your initial profile is determined by your looploss (also known as DS Margin). The higher it is, the lower you will sync.  I reckon ( I base this opinion from what I read and experience) that from the first day on MaxDSL, RAMBO will try to sync you at the highest possible sync rate that will support an SNR no lower than 6. Granted, SNR can drop ... your equipment and RAMBO will decide when they no longer want to be friends. Some routers can be mates with RAMBO with fewer SNRs floating around

Was the SNR determined by my router synch rate

On IP and Data stream, SNR wasn`t even a factor. It was based on DS margin. MaxDSL technology is different. It is hard (for me, I don`t work in IT) to explain but basically, refer to above paragraph reply and I add that for every 0.8Mbit sync rate you drop by, SNR will go up by 6. So answer to your question is no ... and yes, if you know what I mean

Now i'm on a 1MB fixed my SNR is 4 times as high at 23

Yip, different technology. Answered above.

is there another reason my SNR was so low

Rich, from reading your previous postings on here I can conclude that you either live a long way from your exchange or the quality of your line is poor for whatever reason. Personally, I don`t think there`s a damn thing you can do about it, other than buy a Netgear router to keep your session alive for longer, but even then, you will get no more than 1.8Mbit stable ... is it worth it? Even then, your pings may be dire and errors many :\

[Richdog]

Ahh well.... guess i'll have to lump it, thanks for the explanations though J they were helpful.  What router have you got btw, and how the chuff do you get 6.5MB at 1SNR! ?

[Jeff]

Netgear of course ... DG632 too. Public opinion is that the 632 is rubbish. I reckon they just don`t know how to use it, I wouldn`t swap it for any other router in the world, another Netgear possibly, maybe

and how the chuff do you get 6.5MB at 1SNR

Dunno, ask RAMBO!  It`s up to 2 now! 

Rich, buy one: 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00022V29Y/202-8780651-4522253?v=glance&n=560798&s=gateway&v=glance

40 quid ... ADSL2 compatable too

[Richdog]

Netgear of course ... DG632 too. Public opinion is that the 632 is rubbish. I reckon they just don`t know how to use it, I wouldn`t swap it for any other router in the world, another Netgear possibly, maybe

and how the chuff do you get 6.5MB at 1SNR

Dunno, ask RAMBO!  It`s up to 2 now! 

Rich, buy one: 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00022V29Y/202-8780651-4522253?v=glance&n=560798&s=gateway&v=glance

40 quid ... ADSL2 compatable too

Doesn't support P2P though according to this page? http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/Reviews.asp?ShopGroupID=12&CategoryID=1&ProductID=1061

[Jeff]

Read the whole topic m8

There was an issue with P2P - Torrents would often make original firmware freak out. Netgear have solved this issue.

It is important that everyone, whatever hardware they use educates themselves how to use it properly.

For example, if you use P2P you have to configure your router to allow access to the software in the form of opening the port that the software is using ... makes sense. This is the same for all routers.

The Port Forwarding does not work - It crashes if you get too many connections (i.e. above 15) to your PC

Rubbish 

Absolutely useless as an ADSL connectivity device Even after firmware upgrade requires power cycle every few hours as it stops responding

DNS also stops responding all the time

Again, rubbish.

With Azureus, my connection works only 10min !! I need to make a cold boot every time.

Netgear can not sold this problem. They know this since may 2004. And no solution.

I beg to differ: http://kbserver.netgear.com/release_notes/d102629.asp And there are another 2 firware upgrades beyond even this!!

Do I really need to go on?? 

I usually find that folk don`t even do a firmware upgrade properly and spout off ... these things can take up to 15 minutes to perform, the manufacturers software tells you not to touch anything until upgrade is complete ... after 10 minutes, folk are turning the power off and proclaiming that the router is cr*p ... like I said, learning to use your equipment properly is the first step

Log files: How many folk have port forwarding configured with an active logfile? Why??

Inbound and Outbound: How many folk choose the wrong direction? 

TCP and UDP: How many folk think these are political parties in Nothern Ireland? 

One thing though ... Netgear CS is pants. But I`m here, who needs `em?

[Richdog]

Where's the best place to get Cat 5 cable long enough to reach from the master socker to my bedroom (20m or so), will PCWORLD do it?

[Lawman]

Where's the best place to get Cat 5 cable long enough to reach from the master socker to my bedroom (20m or so), will PCWORLD do it?

Try ADSL Nation

http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/default.php?cPath=21&osCsid=1d001e6c8fb1ce91f367f9e254031897

[Richdog]

I know I can get it online but I need it today, hence why I sugegsted PCWORLD.  Should have made that clearer.

[Lawman]

I know I can get it online but I need it today, hence why I sugegsted PCWORLD.  Should have made that clearer.

Just clear, would have done 

[Richdog]

Wow, got some Cat5e cable from my  cruddy local computer shop 9ofall places) and I can't believe the difference it's made!  I routed it from the router up through the ceiling and down into my room to my computer and compared to using the wireless card my connection is a bit faster, a lot more stable, and my pings seem to be better too.

Tommorrow is ADSL filter day, will be interesting to see how much it improves SNR and then I may re-grade back to MAX.