massive drop in internet speed

[Binwooke]

 Hi,

in the last 3-4 days I have been experiencing a massive drop in performance on my broadband connection. Reading other posts on the forum, I decided to go to speedster.bt.com and do a test. This was the results:

IP profile for your line is - 2000 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 832 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4192 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1844 kbps


On other sites I cannot even get a upload result, it just sits there timing out. now correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the above indicate a massive drop?
Accessing flash intensive web sites is labourious, and any atempts to use my Work VPN has lead to a unusable service as it frequently disconnects the tunnel.

Worse still, the above result is through my killer K1 card.

-Binwooke

[Rik]

That test result suggests that you've had a low sync event which has pushed your profile down. What is your d/s noise margin?

Unfortunately, you will have to wait for the profile to recover, under the new BT system, it can take up to 5 days.

[Binwooke]

my D/S noise margin is 11.9 db

What is a low sync event? how often do they occur? why do they occur? and how come it takes 5 days to recover from it?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am a iWork person which means I work from home for >80% the time, which is proving next to impossible if my VPN tunnels collapse. Maybe I need resilence and should get a second DSL line put in 

[Rik]

Hi

Low sync events occur when the line picks up a burst of noise, forcing the modem to re-sync. Because of the noise, it does so at a low speed and the BT line management software drops the profile to match. Recovery time is determined by BT's blip logic. For a major profile drop, it can recover in 4-6 hours, but for a smaller one it now takes up to 5 days.

Most noise is picked up by internal wiring in the house. This is particularly true when there are multiple hard-wired extensions. Often, removing the ring wire from terminal three of all sockets will help. If things are particularly bad, the best solution is often to use a filtered face plate and site the router at the master socket. Given your noise margin, you must have had some extremely noisy conditions. If you have a router log of the disconnection, it might give you a clue as to the cause, eg electrical equipment starting up. If you don't, give support a call on Monday, and they can probably give you the information from their logs.

No ISP can prevent these low sync events occurring, they are a function of your connection to the exchange. What might help you is to move onto a premium product (if you're not already), which would have a higher upload speed and higher priority through the BT network. You could also consider enhanced care if it proves to be an issue between you and the exchange. If you did get a second line put in, specifying that it's for ADSL might encourage BT to give you a good pair, but there are no guarantees.

[Binwooke]

What might help you is to move onto a premium product (if you're not already)

Premium Product? I am on the Home Supermax. is that not a premium product?

Enhanced Care? Oh, do you mean the tech support services for ADSL some companies are teaming up with BT and offering?

The line my ADSL sits on is dedicated exclusively for ADSL, I have a second line for Phones/Sky. Mind you, looking at where BT has positioned my Master socket (1.5 inches from a two-plug power socket) and the fact the phone line plugging into my router is draped across two 6 plug extension blocks, I am betting that doesn't help with the noise.

[Rik]

What might help you is to move onto a premium product (if you're not already)

Premium Product? I am on the Home Supermax. is that not a premium product?

That's the product that I was thinking of, or the business variant

Enhanced Care? Oh, do you mean the tech support services for ADSL some companies are teaming up with BT and offering?

It's not tech support but BT response time. From the website:

"Enhanced Care offers a 20 clock hour clear within BT Wholesale, a 3 hour response time, and is supported by an improved Service Level Guarantee. Out of hours engineering visits to site may be used to complete a repair if unrestricted access is available.

Standard Care offers a 40 clock hour clear within BT Wholesale, but no guaranteed response time, and is supported by a Service Level Guarantee. No out of hours engineering visits are scheduled under Broadband Standard Care which is a no cost, standard care level."

The line my ADSL sits on is dedicated exclusively for ADSL, I have a second line for Phones/Sky. Mind you, looking at where BT has positioned my Master socket (1.5 inches from a two-plug power socket) and the fact the phone line plugging into my router is draped across two 6 plug extension blocks, I am betting that doesn't help with the noise.

You're right, those two factors will not be helping. Ideally, you want the line between the master socket and the router to be well separated from any mains wiring, crossing it at right angles where necessary. Some people have found that using a shielded cable helps, others found it neutral-to-bad.

However, given that you don't have any extensions, it would be worth having a word with support on Monday, with a view to possibly getting BT to physically check your line. Identifying when the low sync occurred might be helpful - it's entirely possible that it was caused by work at the exchange (I know because it's happened to me). Do you know of any industrial activity nearby which could be generating noise?

[Binwooke]

No industrial activity that I know of...

I will call support on Monday. Right now I am going to see if I can cloths line my phone cable away from the power plugs.

I will also look at BT's enhanced care.

I think the frustrating thing is I haven't really had "great" broadband since I moved in back in Febuary. Switching to idnet definately improved things, but tbh that wasn't difficult as I was constantly suffering with service interuptions and disconnections on the last ISP service. I think the best broadband I had was at my last house, in so much that I rarely had a problem with it and never really had to think about tweaking it, but I am starting to think that it's not so much the ISP that needs to be great, but the exchange/line you hang off.

Anyway, thanks Rik.

-Binwooke

[Rik]

Right now I am going to see if I can cloths line my phone cable away from the power plugs.

Be wary of multiple disconnections. Ten or more in an hour triggers the BT software into lowering the profile.

I am starting to think that it's not so much the ISP that needs to be great, but the exchange/line you hang off.

This is largely true, I live with aluminium cable, and there's nothing any ISP can do to improve the physics. A 2000 profile is normal for me, but my neighbours are on 1000 or 512 fixed, so someone must like me. Where you do see the difference between ISPs is in the congestion on their own network, and their willingness to push BT to get the best possible results from your line. IDNet do very well on both counts in my experience.

I hope you get things working to your expectation again soon.

[cosmicdance]

I often find if I have downloaded a lot then afterwards my internet connection can almost half.
All I do is dsconnect the router from the mains (PC off) and leave it 30 seconds.
It's always fine after that.

ANdy

[Rik]

That sounds like the router may have a problem, Andy. Is there anyone you could borrow a spare from?

[cosmicdance]

Thing is Rik it's fine if I play games for hours upon hours and listen to streamed music - altogether it downloads huge quantities.
Yet if I download large files, about 1.5 GB etc, then it needs a reset.

Andy.

[Rik]

I'm just wondering if it's over-heating?

[Binwooke]

Rik,

How does support work with idnet?

I submitted a support form, but had no email response at all. problem I have is I work same hours as support, and when I have degraded interent access I have to basically trapse into a corporate office and work from there. My fear is that I actually need to be at home in front of my Router/PC to process any support query, but frankly looking at my Calendar, unless idnet start working weekends/evenings, the next time I get to see inside my office will be October 15th. i was sort of hoping a simple email would suffice and they would go off and work some magic. is that a fair assessment? or am I doomed to have degraded Internet for weeks? 

[Lance]

I would try chasing them with another email to support@idnet.net to start with. They may be able to advise a way forward over the phone, for you to try and implement in the evening when at home. It might also be worth asking about a pre-arranged out of hours support call, I think they have offered this once or twice before when support hours have been an issue.

I think the first thing support will do anyway is test the line, which obviously doesn't need you to be at home.

[Binwooke]

I would try chasing them with another email to support@idnet.net to start with.

On it. I am pasting my router logs from the routerstats program just to show them the noise fluctuation on the Downstream

They may be able to advise a way forward over the phone, for you to try and implement in the evening when at home.

An email will do, even a response to this forum thread or a pointer to a blog will do if it fixes it 

It might also be worth asking about a pre-arranged out of hours support call, I think they have offered this once or twice before when support hours have been an issue.

It is the only thing about idnet I am less than 100% happy about. No out-of-hours support. I guess I got use to round the clock with other ISP's. That said, idnet is one of the best broadband services I have used in years, plus the forum makes a huge difference.

I think the first thing support will do anyway is test the line, which obviously doesn't need you to be at home.

Looking at my ISP history in this house, I am convinced it's the physical line. BT aren't though. They claim it is fine.... however I am less than reassured. I hope idnet find some obvious physical fault that can be tracked back to BT.

Thanks Lance

[Rik]

The problem, always, is that BT have low expectations of the service - they are happy if you have 400k. As there is no universal service obligation, there's only so far that an ISP can push things.

My instinct is that you have a noise problem, and it would be worth your while checking your internal wiring to eliminate that as far as possible. If you need an engineer visit, and he finds the problem to be your wiring, you face a charge of £160+.

[Binwooke]

OK, after BT modified my BRAS profile I am now getting this:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 4000 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 832 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4000 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3376 kbps

That said, it still seems slow to load some pages (although some improvement has occured) , and I am still unable to get any upstream tests to work, and that's with me running with no Firewall/anti-virus/anti-spyware. Upstream as slow as it is, is still important to me for work purposes. Also, I am still getting unstable VPN tunnels through to work. I would like to blame them, but I have no trouble accessing it from other networks (and that's over wireless in a Starbucks).

From a wiring perspective I have a lot of power in my office, but then again I have a lot of machines too (sort of a mini-datacenter). i have a Netgear Gigabit ethernet switch serving as my backbone plugged into a Netgear DG834PN with Wireless enabled. I have a Buffalo Wireless Access point connecting in via wireless to my Router from my Workshop. In my workshop I have 3 servers plugged in directly into the wireless access point. In my office I have 2 PC's, 2 laptops, 2 Sun Ray Thin Clients (one setup to VPN into my Work, the other connected to a server in my workshop). At any one time at least 3 devices in my office are plugged in and connected to either the Gigabit switch or wireless. in order to drive this lot I have several surge protected muti-socket extension leads, plus 2x desktop mounted toblerone shaped Power/NIC blocks with 4 power sockets and 3 NIC's typically I would plug both the power and the Network into the toblerones, however since the problems started up, I have bypassed the toblerones, the netgear switch and plugged directly into the DG834PN and that's made no difference. I have tried running the DG834PN both on the fitted socket and the test socket inside the BT socket and I have noticed no difference.

Maybe I have too much going on in my office 

Either that or I need a leased line

[Lance]

I'm interested to know why they have manually put you on a 4000kbps profile, when your sync is the same. A sync of 4000kpps normally means a profile of 3500kbps, while had it been 3999kpps it would have resulted in a profile of 3000kbps. It seems to me that you (well, BT) are trying to get more performance from your line than it can handle at the present momnet.

I can't explain why you can't get a decent upstream, so suggest you continue to talk to support about that one.

I can't remember if you had removed the ring wire from all sockets?

[Rik]

I agree, Lance, that sync speed only just creeps into the 3500 profile. Maybe it's a stuck high profile?

Binwooke, what's your d/s noise margin?

[Binwooke]

Just booted up Routerstats. Here is my current D/S noise:

Wed 05 Sep 2007  17:13:37   91.135.1.253   Rx-Noise= 13.9   Tx-Noise= 11   Rx-Sync= 4000   Tx-Sync= 832

This evening strangely enough the service is fast compared to the last week. That said, speedtester report is comperable to last night:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 832 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4000 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3272 kbps

I will check to see if the BT Engineer has attched the ring wire. I made it clear it was a DSL line only when the engineer turned up and he appeared on the surface to be very knowledgable regarding DSL installations. Need to offline for a few so I can pyll the socket apart.

-Binwooke

[Rik]

If the service has improved, it could well point to congestion at the exchange. It's been noticeable here, with schools going back today. Try and get to the ring wire as soon as possible, it has the potential to make a big difference - usually, you can do it without disconnecting, just take off the face plate and wiggle the terminal three wire out.

Let us know how it goes.

[Binwooke]

OK, couple of things:

(1) On all the sockets attached to my second line I have taken them apart and with exception to (2) one socket only two wires are attached to the terminals

(2) The master socket in my office looks nothing like your pictures. I cannot actually see the terminals as such. The socket unscrews and then you have to pull half the face off. There can be a small amount of resistnace because the face is plugging into the internal BT test socket. Once off, two more screws free up the top half of the face where the wiring is, however with exception to the two wires being screwed into two brass pillars, the actually terminals are incased in plastic that doesn't seem to come apart 

Either way, assuming the two wires in my master socket are just purely DSL wires, then none of my Ring wires are attached.

[Rik]

If you only have two wires, they should (a) be connected to terminals 2 & 5 (or A & B if they are the exchange pair - these will be on screw terminals, not push in IDC) and (b) they should be a 'pair', eg blue/white and white/blue (but if it's just the exchange pair, this is not the case, the colours are different).

Do you have a filtered face plate fitted by any chance?

[Binwooke]

Do you have a filtered face plate fitted by any chance?

No idea. It may be. All I know is when you unscrew the lower face plate and extract it, it has on the inside of the face plate what looks like a phone jack that plugs into the internal test socket. for a time with my last ISP they told me to plug directly into the BT test socket (which made no difference to the poor service they were giving me) but this looks ugly having half the socket exposed, and to be honest I don't see what difference it makes.

[Rik]

That sounds like a standard NTE5 then, one standard BT socket on the face plate? The incoming line is wired to the test socket, the face plate gets its connection by plugging into that socket, with any extensions connected to the face plate, so they disconnect when your remove it. That's why people ask you to try the test socket, because you connect directly to the exchange pair, with none of your own wiring connected. If the problem is the same, it has to be on the BT side of the connection.

[Simon]

Its a bit difficult though, when your test socket is under the stairs, or as in my case, outside in the electric meter cupboard.

[Rik]

Wireless router and long mains lead?

[Simon]

I suppose that might be a solution, Rik. 

[Rik]

Or, laptop and USB modem... (They do still have their uses!)

[Binwooke]

Just like to update you all to let you know that about 12 hours after my BRAS profile got adjusted, internet performance improved dramatically. Strange it took so long to adjust, but now it's ticking along nicely and I am once again able to get a stable VPN connection to my work.

Thanks

Binwooke

[Rik]

Great to hear that, thanks for letting us know. Have a karma to celebrate.