Worse we have ever known it..

cyprio42 · Sep 05, 2007, 20:56:15

hi
we have been experiencing a lot of disconnections over the last few weeks. This is mainly between 6-10pm. Is this the norm these days or do we have a problem? We have been very happy with IDnet and have never had any problems in the last year. I have managed to get these stats if they are any use. I haven't a clue to be honest.
regards
rick

Wed, 2007-09-05 06:26:39 - Receive NTP Reply from time-g.netgear.com
Wed, 2007-09-05 06:26:13 - Router start up
Wed, 2007-09-05 13:48:14 - LCP down.
Wed, 2007-09-05 13:48:15 - Initialize LCP.
Wed, 2007-09-05 13:48:16 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Wed, 2007-09-05 13:48:35 - CHAP authentication success
Wed, 2007-09-05 14:25:54 - LCP down.
Wed, 2007-09-05 14:25:58 - Initialize LCP.
Wed, 2007-09-05 14:25:58 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Wed, 2007-09-05 14:26:11 - Loss of synchronization :1
Wed, 2007-09-05 14:26:14 - CHAP authentication success
Wed, 2007-09-05 14:27:41 - Loss of synchronization :2
Wed, 2007-09-05 15:08:03 - LCP down.
Wed, 2007-09-05 15:08:04 - Initialize LCP.
Wed, 2007-09-05 15:08:05 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Wed, 2007-09-05 15:08:12 - Loss of synchronization :3
Wed, 2007-09-05 15:08:24 - CHAP authentication success
Wed, 2007-09-05 18:25:46 - Loss of synchronization :4
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:04:17 - Loss of synchronization :5
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:28:43 - LCP down.
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:28:44 - Initialize LCP.
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:28:45 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:29:04 - CHAP authentication success
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:38:18 - Loss of synchronization :6
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:38:23 - LCP down.
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:38:24 - Initialize LCP.
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:38:24 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:38:43 - CHAP authentication success
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:42:18 - Loss of synchronization :7
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:42:22 - LCP down.
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:42:24 - Initialize LCP.
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:42:24 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:42:44 - CHAP authentication success
Wed, 2007-09-05 19:43:52 - Administrator login successful -

cosmicdance · Sep 05, 2007, 21:29:50

Have you tried ringing Idnet to see what they say about your disconnections?

I've been with them for over a year and never had a disconnection so sorry to hear you are having problems.
Whenever I have had to ring them they have always sorted things out straight away or made sure they follow it up.

Andy

ReDGryphoN · Sep 05, 2007, 21:58:42

HI,

Can you post your line stats from your router ?

Which Netgear router is it ?

ReD

MAABOF

cyprio42 · Sep 05, 2007, 22:28:30

hi
its a Netgear wireless DG834G. I have copied this below if it makes any sense. regards

Port     Status     TxPkts     RxPkts     Collisions     Tx B/s     Rx B/s     Up Time
WAN    PPPoA    4452    6036    0    143    856    01:41:10
LAN    10M/100M    173217    115946    0    4085    260    14:57:36
WLAN    11M/54M    12640    13168    0    70    134    14:57:25

ADSL Link    Downstream    Upstream
Connection Speed    2272 kbps    288 kbps
Line Attenuation    54 db    15.5 db
Noise Margin    6 db    21 db

Lance · Sep 05, 2007, 22:31:58

It looks like you have a noise problem on your line, most likely caused by your internal wiring. When the level of noise increases, it will eventually cause you to lose connection. Noise is usually at its highest in the evening and this is why your disconnections are mostly around this time.
If you post more stats, maybe taken three or four over an evening and we can try to help. There are things you can start to do though, have a read through the faq, paying particular attention to the bit about removing the ring wire.
My initial thought from looking at your stats is that your sync speed is a little low for your attenuation, which would be caused by the exchange negotiating a lower sync to gain more noise margin.

Rik · Sep 06, 2007, 00:11:52

Hi Cyprio42

You're on a fixed 2Mbps connection. The problem, as I see it, is that you are outside BT's attenuation limits for a 2meg connection (attenuation >43db). This means that you have a very low noise margin for a fixed rate connection, and this is leading to the instability.

Work through your internal wiring to eliminate potential sources of noise (see the FAQ at the top of this board). If you can't improve things, contact support and see what they suggest, but I fear that if BT become involved, they will move you to a 1Mbps service, in line with your stats.

ReDGryphoN · Sep 06, 2007, 11:49:53

Hi,

Can you use ADSL monitor or routerstats to record your Noise margin over a 24 hr period ?
I am interested to see if it gets above 6 or not

I am on Max and Synch at 2072 and due to my profile get approx 1.7Meg downstream and thats on an attn of 59dB. BT checkers tell me I can get 0.5Mb but no more but have proved them wrong over the last year with a rock solid (Thanks IDNET too) connection.

However if your margin does not go above 6 then I would still strongly recommend you follow Riks etc advice and go through the FAQ to make the most of your connection. Try connecting into the test socket direct and see what your stats say then.

I have a filtered faceplate, removed the orange ring wire, Cat5e cabling and a 2700HGV router and I get the same sync at my computer as I would from the test socket.

ReD

MAABOF

cavillas · Sep 06, 2007, 12:25:04

Have you had anything added to your telephone system in the past few weeks? ie. Sky, new telephone, new filters.

Gary · Sep 07, 2007, 11:27:11

Quote from: ReDGryphoN on Sep 06, 2007, 11:49:53
Hi,

Can you use ADSL monitor or routerstats to record your Noise margin over a 24 hr period ?
I am interested to see if it gets above 6 or not

I am on Max and Synch at 2072 and due to my profile get approx 1.7Meg downstream and thats on an attn of 59dB. BT checkers tell me I can get 0.5Mb but no more but have proved them wrong over the last year with a rock solid (Thanks IDNET too) connection.

However if your margin does not go above 6 then I would still strongly recommend you follow Riks etc advice and go through the FAQ to make the most of your connection. Try connecting into the test socket direct and see what your stats say then.

I have a filtered faceplate, removed the orange ring wire, Cat5e cabling and a 2700HGV router and I get the same sync at my computer as I would from the test socket.

ReD

MAABOF

I also have a filtered faceplate, and the quality of those can make a heck of a difference as ReDGryphoN said. I use an Adsl Nation XTE-2005 which helped a lot along with cat five shielded modem cable and no lightning surge protection filters as they can produce a lot of noise and won't really help as the best thing to do is power your router/modem/computer down and unplug from the wall both your phone lines and power supply in a storm anyway, also avoid running your modem cable near mains leads etc. My snr stays at about 6db with attenuation of 49db and BT Checker tells me I can get 3Mb but at the moment I'm beating that with no disconnections even in the evening with snr of about 4-5, alas the wiring from my facepate (BT side and drop wire are as old as the ark) and probably causing the noise as all the lines outside where replaced two years ago. So check all your inside wiring as has been said, if your wiring internally is old I have known people have the BT side wiring replaced when they complained about the quality of their voice service. Contact IDNet if all else fails and |I'm sure they will do what they can.

wiltshirejohn · Sep 07, 2007, 15:06:03

Quote from: Killhippie on Sep 07, 2007, 11:27:11
and no lightning surge protection filters as they can produce a lot of noise

Hi Gary, I'm interested in your (and anybody else's) take on these lightning surge protection filters.
I've never before heard of them creating problems. (But then I don't get out much

)

I currently have one (built into my UPS) protecting the ADSL modem and I'm about to add another
'soap on a rope' type to protect the old dial-up modem in the computer.

Regards - wiltshirejohn

Rik · Sep 07, 2007, 15:12:47

I'm in favour of mains surge protection, John, but I think that the ADSL variants do little than add noise to the circuit.

Gary · Sep 07, 2007, 17:20:10

I'm with Rik here mains surge protectors are a must, I have them on all my big electrical devices like cinema systems tv's and even my freezer (getting old and showing it) and a UPS for my pc, but phone line ones don't do a lot and a lightning strike will blow any phone line protector if its close anyway that's why unplug for safety, I gained about 3db back on my snr my removing mine and that was the one going through my UPS which was not cheap either, and just using the cat 5 from the faceplate to the router. Pretty much any extra noise on an adsl max line can cause problems if your at the limits already and you want to keep it as clean as possible with as few connectors as well.

Gary · Sep 07, 2007, 17:49:12

Quote from: wiltshirejohn on Sep 07, 2007, 15:06:03
Hi Gary, I'm interested in your (and anybody else's) take on these lightning surge protection filters.
I've never before heard of them creating problems. (But then I don't get out much )

I currently have one (built into my UPS) protecting the ADSL modem and I'm about to add another
'soap on a rope' type to protect the old dial-up modem in the computer.

Regards - wiltshirejohn

My Profile has gone up from 3500 to 4000 by removing the UPS protection for the adsl line and having it go straight to the router from the filtered faceplate. I have a cat 5 going through a network surge protector in between my router and the Ethernet connection on my pc as a just in case effort if I'm out and there is a storm, maybe just maybe it would protect my pc (more hope that anything else as I have said lightning will blow most things but it keeps me feeling a little happier at least) but as you can see that's a big jump for my noisy line in the sticks, so worth checking out to see if it helps. I unplugged my router for 30mins after changing the wiring about and its been on 4000 for 24 hours now where as before it was 3500 after 24 hours with the UPS filter

Simon · Sep 07, 2007, 22:29:33

I'm not sure how true it is, but I was told at some time that surge protectors are only good for one 'event', then they should be replaced. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Lance · Sep 07, 2007, 23:18:01

I don't know the answer to this but i'm going to guess!

I assume for the nasty cheap things you can buy, this is going to be largely true, assuming it is a proper surge and not just a minor fluctuation in power. However, the more expensive ones are probably good for a fair few shocks! Mine has two lights on it, one to show it has power and another to show that the surge protection is working.

Rik · Sep 08, 2007, 00:44:17

Most domestic surge protectors are self-sacrificial - they take the spike and burn out. If you're using a conditioning UPS, the surge protection is likely to be more robust. As you say, Lance, they usually have an indicator which will tell you when they have died (actually, it's often when no power comes through them any more.

)