Spam email filter

Najarak · Sep 13, 2007, 22:00:14

Sorry if this has been asked and answered before, I have had a look around but cannot see any questions about this aspect of spam.

If the IDNet.com email filter wrongly identifies a message as spam is it sufficient to add the sender to one's address book using webmail so that future messages from the same source will not be caught by the spam filter ?

Rik · Sep 14, 2007, 00:25:41

Based on what I've seen, I'd say no, Steve. It might be worth taking it up with support though, or I can if you prefer.

Simon · Sep 14, 2007, 00:29:34

To add to this, is there any way to turn off the spam filter completely? I prefer to filter my own mail, and have just found something in the Junk folder by using Webmail, that I didn't know was there. I always use POP3, so I really don't want to have to keep logging in to Webmail to check the Junk folder for stuff I might want.

Rik · Sep 14, 2007, 00:31:22

None that I know of, Simon, it's something I would like. I also prefer to deal with my spam locally. Time for a poll maybe?

Simon · Sep 14, 2007, 00:42:37

Umm... this is actually a real issue for me. I don't need and don't want the webmail interface, but it seems I am going to be forced to use it if I want to use my IDNet mail accounts. There is also no import facility for address books, and I don't intend to manually add over 200 addresses. Oh dear, just as I thought it was going so well.

Rik · Sep 14, 2007, 00:51:14

TBH, I've never had a real spam problem, my junk folder has stayed pleasantly empty - I get quite a bit with my 1&1 hosted domain email by comparison.

Simon · Sep 14, 2007, 00:56:47

The point it, it's being taken out of the users hands, without giving the user a choice. I have always used Mail Washer to filter my junk mail, and I want to continue to do so. I don't want to over-react, but I can't use my IDNet email accounts under these conditions, so this leaves me in a difficult situation.

Rik · Sep 14, 2007, 00:58:25

Have a word with support, Simon, see if they can turn off the filter for you.

Simon_idnet · Sep 14, 2007, 09:49:41

The spam filter operates at the SMTP level and so is global across the whole idnet.com domain - i.e. it can't be disabled for an individual mailbox.

What I do is to have two "Accounts" setup in Outlook Express: one is setup in POP3 mode to empty my Inbox folder on the server and the other is setup in IMAP mode but is only subscribed to the Junk folder and only downloads the Headers of the mails that are in there. This way you can continue to receive your usual, filtered POP3 mail in the normal way and at the same time you can peek into the Junk folder (from within OE) to scan the stuff that's in there without having to log into the Webmail interface.

Cheers
Simon

Gary · Sep 14, 2007, 09:53:12

Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 14, 2007, 00:42:37
Umm... this is actually a real issue for me. I don't need and don't want the webmail interface, but it seems I am going to be forced to use it if I want to use my IDNet mail accounts. There is also no import facility for address books, and I don't intend to manually add over 200 addresses. Oh dear, just as I thought it was going so well.

I agree we need a way of marking something "not spam" also a way to import your own address book would be very useful.

Gary · Sep 14, 2007, 09:55:16

Quote from: simon on Sep 14, 2007, 09:49:41
The spam filter operates at the SMTP level and so is global across the whole idnet.com domain - i.e. it can't be disabled for an individual mailbox.

What I do is to have two "Accounts" setup in Outlook Express: one is setup in POP3 mode to empty my Inbox folder on the server and the other is setup in IMAP mode but is only subscribed to the Junk folder and only downloads the Headers of the mails that are in there. This way you can continue to receive your usual, filtered POP3 mail in the normal way and at the same time you can peek into the Junk folder (from within OE) to scan the stuff that's in there without having to log into the Webmail interface.

Cheers
Simon

Cheers for that Simon but a way to import your address book from outlook/OE etc and whitelist it would be useful.

Edit: Markup sorted

Najarak · Sep 14, 2007, 11:49:48

Quote from: Rik on Sep 14, 2007, 00:25:41
Based on what I've seen, I'd say no, Steve. It might be worth taking it up with support though, or I can if you prefer.

Rik, I have just spoken to Andrew who told me that they will be introducing the ability to adjust the strength of the spam filiter oneself in the next few weeks. The problem that I have ATM is that the filter picks up messages as spam from ebay and amazon which are not spam.

Should be sorted soon then 8)

Rik · Sep 14, 2007, 11:52:16

Hi Steve

Thanks for that. I had heard, but it was under wraps when I was told. I guess we can talk about it now.

Gary · Sep 14, 2007, 13:57:18

Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 14, 2007, 00:56:47
The point it, it's being taken out of the users hands, without giving the user a choice. I have always used Mail Washer to filter my junk mail, and I want to continue to do so. I don't want to over-react, but I can't use my IDNet email accounts under these conditions, so this leaves me in a difficult situation.

The email situation is not to bad with Simon's workaround Simon

after experiencing the nightmare of other ISP's believe me this small glitch in what is a fantastic service will probably get ironed out, I only use my IDNet accounts for personal mail and have other accounts for business and such like so its not really a problem, I just migrated all my mail before I came here after being in the depths of hell with Orange, their email was awful spam ridden and would not let you remove blocked phrases as it thought you were sending a virus from its webmail interface! Also its DNS servers were awful getting to any site was so hit and miss as well and this is the same with most "bigname" ISP's I can say personally I have seen a lot of problems with email with my friends on other ISP's. IDNet take notice and listen to us and that's so rare in this day an age with massive blind and death corporations just milking us for money. I would hold out to see what happens here. So far I would say IDNet is the best ISP I have encountered and I have tried quite a few from small to large and this one is listening to us, and open to suggestion, not something you will find so readily elsewhere I think.

Rik · Sep 14, 2007, 14:54:42

I'll second that.

Simon · Sep 14, 2007, 16:14:34

Quote from: simon on Sep 14, 2007, 09:49:41
The spam filter operates at the SMTP level and so is global across the whole idnet.com domain - i.e. it can't be disabled for an individual mailbox.

What I do is to have two "Accounts" setup in Outlook Express: one is setup in POP3 mode to empty my Inbox folder on the server and the other is setup in IMAP mode but is only subscribed to the Junk folder and only downloads the Headers of the mails that are in there. This way you can continue to receive your usual, filtered POP3 mail in the normal way and at the same time you can peek into the Junk folder (from within OE) to scan the stuff that's in there without having to log into the Webmail interface.

Cheers
Simon

That does sounds like s solution, thanks Simon.

I know I could probably find it for myself, but what's the IMAP server address?

Ray · Sep 14, 2007, 16:19:36

Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 14, 2007, 16:14:34
That does sounds like s solution, thanks Simon.

I know I could probably find it for myself, but what's the IMAP server address?

Simon, it's the same as the pop server ie pop3.idnet.com, you just have to make sure that when you set up the account in Outlook Express or whatever Email programme you are going to use you set it up as an IMAP account.

Rik · Sep 14, 2007, 16:21:11

I have a note of it being imap.idnet.com, or mail.idnet.com, Ray. Try the pop3 first, Simon, if not progress to the others.

Ray · Sep 14, 2007, 16:35:43

Quote from: Rik on Sep 14, 2007, 16:21:11
I have a note of it being imap.idnet.com, or mail.idnet.com, Ray. Try the pop3 first, Simon, if not progress to the others.

Does seem to work on pop3 as well Rik, I've just tried it, as I thought I might have got it wrong in my original reply

Rik · Sep 14, 2007, 16:37:13

What's the betting the server will answer to "Oi, you"?

Simon · Sep 14, 2007, 16:45:27

OK, I'll try those, but the next question is, how do you get it to 'map' to the Junk folder?

Ray · Sep 14, 2007, 16:47:34

Quote from: Rik on Sep 14, 2007, 16:37:13
What's the betting the server will answer to "Oi, you"?

Looks like that is highly likely

all my dogs answer to it as well!

Rik · Sep 14, 2007, 16:51:03

Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 14, 2007, 16:45:27
OK, I'll try those, but the next question is, how do you get it to 'map' to the Junk folder?

Outlook?

Create the account, then select the Inbox, click on Tools > IMAP folders > Subscribed > Query. Once you've populated the list, highlight and hit unsubscribe for those you don't want.

Simon · Sep 14, 2007, 16:52:17

Quote from: Rik on Sep 14, 2007, 16:51:03
Outlook?

Create the account, then select the Inbox, click on Tools > IMAP folders > Subscribed > Query. Once you've populated the list, highlight and hit unsubscribe for those you don't want.

No, Thunderbird!

But if it's similar, I'll work it out.

Rik · Sep 14, 2007, 16:58:39

What I couldn't do in Outlook was to unsubscribe the Inbox, even though it showed as unsubbed. Despite being the last account to be checked, it also managed to grab the mail in preference to the POP account (which is the first).

Simon · Sep 14, 2007, 17:00:36

It would be far easier if the spam filter could be switched off! Oh well, I'm sure I can work round it somehow.

Rik · Sep 14, 2007, 17:06:35

Give it time, there will be an easy solution along soon.

Simon · Sep 14, 2007, 19:47:48

Well, I hope so, because I can't get it to work in Thunderbird.

Ray · Sep 14, 2007, 20:58:21

Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 14, 2007, 19:47:48
Well, I hope so, because I can't get it to work in Thunderbird.

Simon, I've just got it to work in Thunderbird, how did you try it, I added a new account via Account Settings and made sure that I selected IMAP as the account type.

Also worth looking at this link as well: - http://kb.mozillazine.org/IMAP

Simon · Sep 14, 2007, 21:24:28

That's what I did, Ray, and there are 18 unread messages in the Junk folder if I access by webmail, but for some reason, I can't get Thunderbird to see them. Tearing what little hair I have left out!

Simon · Sep 14, 2007, 21:47:43

OK, I give up! Can some kind soul please give a step by step guide as to how to set up an IMAP mail account with IDNet in Thunderbird? What's the IMAP server directory, for a start? I have set it up in TB, but all I am getting is server time outs, and it won't subscribe to any folders.

Ray · Sep 14, 2007, 22:12:31

Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 14, 2007, 21:47:43
OK, I give up! Can some kind soul please give a step by step guide as to how to set up an IMAP mail account with IDNet in Thunderbird? What's the IMAP server directory, for a start? I have set it up in TB, but all I am getting is server time outs, and it won't subscribe to any folders.

OK, Simon, this should get you up and running: -

Setting up an IMAP email account in Thunderbird

1.Tools - Account Settings.

2.Add Account.

3.Email Account -hit Next button.

4.Enter your Name email Address you wish to use for account-hit "Next" button.

5.Select IMAP-and Enter incoming server imap.idnet.com - hit "Next" button.

6. Enter Incoming user name yourusername@idnet.com and Outgoing user name same as incoming - hit "Next" button

7.Enter account name- hit "Next" button.

8.Check all settings are correct and hit "Finish" button.

9.You should now get a new folder appear in the all folders panel.

10. Open this folder and right click on Junk folder and select subscribe you will then see a list of folders with check boxes by them just check the ones you wish to subscribe to.

11. Then try sending mail to the new account to test if you wish.

Simon · Sep 14, 2007, 22:49:44

Thanks Ray. All OK up to point 10, but I don't get a Junk folder to right click on, and when I right click the main folder and select Subscribe, I just get a server time out. It's now worse than it was before, in that I could see the Junk folder, and subscribe to it earlier, but it just wouldn't see the mail. Now it won't connect at all.

I've had enough now, and I've lost patience with it, so I'm going to leave it till the morning.

Ann · Sep 15, 2007, 20:14:12

I don't understand why they would imagine that everyone would want their spam held on the server and only visible from the web account. It doesn't make sense even to the most dimmest of the dim. I am sooo frustrated as my ordinary email address was broken so I changed all my lists over and told everyone about this IDnet address only to find that posts sent from me BCCd to me get stuck in spam. Now I can't use this address... I need a drink now and I don't have any...

Simon · Sep 16, 2007, 01:12:51

It's certainly not ideal, and I would still much rather have the choice of being able to filter my spam locally, through Mail Washer. One of the reasons I came to IDNet was for the idnet.com email addresses, but I hadn't realised that this is the way it's set up, and although I have now worked a way round it by using IMAP, I'm still not all that happy with the spam filter situation.

colirv · Sep 16, 2007, 10:27:51

I decided after the first time I changed ISPs that I would get myself a universal email address. I currently use Spamcop.net, but also have my own domain. IMHO it's the only way to go, and dead cheap nowadays.

Simon · Sep 16, 2007, 10:43:35

I do have a mail.com address, which is universal, but to have POP3 access, costs about £10 per year. I also have several other accounts, serving various purposes, one of which is a 'business' account, which I need to transfer from my old ISP to IDNet, and I also like to keep my primary ISP email address as private as possible, and only give it out to family and friends. My concern with the spam filter is that they are usually less than 100% accurate, and this is why I would prefer to have the option to deal with things myself.

Gary · Sep 17, 2007, 08:16:29

Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 16, 2007, 10:43:35
I do have a mail.com address, which is universal, but to have POP3 access, costs about £10 per year. I also have several other accounts, serving various purposes, one of which is a 'business' account, which I need to transfer from my old ISP to IDNet, and I also like to keep my primary ISP email address as private as possible, and only give it out to family and friends. My concern with the spam filter is that they are usually less than 100% accurate, and this is why I would prefer to have the option to deal with things myself.

Morning Simon, I agree some email filters are not that accurate, but since joining IDNet I have received a lot of email and not one piece has gone to junk yet and no spam either but I accept some will at a point probably, I'm not sure what filtering system they use maybe Rik could enlighten us but It's pretty good, also I imagine they have to have blanket email protection to stop the network becoming bogged down with malicious messages thus reducing the throughput of genuine email which we do not want because of spam and virus ridden junk clogging the system, also if IDNets email became a target for spammers then our email addresses would end up as useless as say Freeserve or Wanadoo which as I have said before are blacklisted by many ISP's due to spammers taking advantage of the "as many email addresses as you want" offer and making those addresses useless for legitimate users, I had to abandon a five year old Freeserve address because of that very reason, my mail was not getting through. I can see you may want to lower the setting maybe but most ISP's have to have spam filters in place to ultimately protect its own email network, don't worry it works just fine from where I am standing so wait to your migration and see how it all goes, you wont be disappointed

Right more coffee

Rik · Sep 17, 2007, 08:45:36

Quote from: Killhippie on Sep 17, 2007, 08:16:29
I'm not sure what filtering system they use maybe Rik could enlighten us

No...

Simon · Sep 17, 2007, 23:37:54

Gary, sorry I missed your post. Your points are well made, and I am sure that everything will be OK when I migrate on Thursday. Yes, THURSDAY!! Only three days to go!!

Ann · Sep 18, 2007, 00:24:37

Be sure to get up early. When I migrated on 31st August it was up and running by the time I got up at half past 7!

Gary · Sep 18, 2007, 08:45:35

Quote from: Si6776 on Sep 17, 2007, 23:37:54
Gary, sorry I missed your post. Your points are well made, and I am sure that everything will be OK when I migrate on Thursday. Yes, THURSDAY!! Only three days to go!!

No worries Simon, not long now, be interesting to see what speeds you get after training, I was told I would get 3mb but I get 4mb and I'm on a long wire with a lot of noise. I had only one loss of sync for about a second or so late on the first day of training (11pm ish), after that all was great, and considering the same product on Orange didn't work after 6pm and just and kept losing sync every few minutes it makes you wonder

Rik · Sep 18, 2007, 09:00:14

IDNet put money in the meter.

Gary · Sep 18, 2007, 09:47:43

Orange's with their huge coffers couldn't find the key to unlock the safe to top up the meter so went back to bed I fear

Rik · Sep 18, 2007, 09:49:33

You may well have the answer there, Gary.

Ann · Sep 18, 2007, 17:20:44

Woohoo.. turned it off..

Rik · Sep 18, 2007, 17:22:36

Me too, Ann.

Simon · Sep 18, 2007, 19:25:07

And me. New website kills all known spam filters. Dead!