Why IMAP messages marked for offline viewing disappeared

krysia · Oct 07, 2007, 13:49:34

I think my earlier query got lost in the thread I'd posted it in, so I'll try again in a new one. Can anyone explain the following?

Although I understand that all e-mail messages stored on the server have gone, given this weekend's hardware failure, I don't understand why they have disappeared from Outlook Express too - although l've set up my mail account as an IMAP one, I marked the inbox for offline viewing, which should mean the messages are stored on my hard drive as well as on the server. I'm really worried about this, as my old F2S IMAP account is still working but will presumably close before too long, and in anticipation I'd marked all messages in it for off-line viewing, so that I wouldn't lose them when I lose the account. But after this experience, I wonder if I will.

Rik · Oct 07, 2007, 14:13:01

Don't IMAP folders synchronise when you connect to the server, Krysia? In which case, the fact that they were 'deleted' from the server would mean they local copies would get deleted too. I don't generally use IMAP, but I thought that's how it worked.

Sorry if I missed your earlier post, I don't recall seeing one from you, but it has been a crazy weekend.

Ann · Oct 07, 2007, 14:36:29

Working offline is meant for dial up only, so that when you are not connected you can work, and when you reconnect, as Rik says, it synchronises with the server automtically. I know that from Thunderbird but I am fairly sure that it works the same with other emailers.

Rik · Oct 07, 2007, 14:44:16

Thanks for that, Ann.

Adam · Oct 07, 2007, 15:16:26

Marking IMAP folders for offline viewing is different than simply working offline. It is there so you can access your mail without having to connect to the IMAP server. It also enables you to keep a local backup of your mail encase the server is unavailable or data on the server is deleted.

As for the original post; there should be an option to enable viewing deleted mail in your email client. When enabling this option the mail should show up. If not, you can find the mail files on your hard drive in the Outlook application data folder.

krysia · Oct 07, 2007, 16:16:30

Thanks for that, Adam. I think I fouled up: I didn't create a 'deleted items' folder when I set up the IDNet account on OE, as I didn't think there was a use for it (given that you first 'delete' and then 'purge' unwanted items, and they don't disapppear until you purge). I couldn't find an application data folder in OE where the messages might be stored - does it exist in OE and, if so, where should I look?

If only synchronisation had restored the messages to webmail, instead of removing them from OE! I wonder what the chances are of IDNet being able to recover any of the lost data?

Rik · Oct 07, 2007, 16:22:40

Quote from: krysia on Oct 07, 2007, 16:16:30
If only synchronisation had restored the messages to webmail, instead of removing them from OE! I wonder what the chances are of IDNet being able to recover any of the lost data?

I know they will be trying to resurrect the RAID again tomorrow, Krysia.

Rik · Oct 07, 2007, 16:33:36

Quote from: krysia on Oct 07, 2007, 16:16:30
I couldn't find an application data folder in OE where the messages might be stored - does it exist in OE and, if so, where should I look?

Go to Tools > Options > Maintenance > Store Folder, that will give you the folder, there you will find a bunch of dbx files.

krysia · Oct 08, 2007, 11:48:56

Many thanks for that, Rik, and for keeping us all posted on what was happening over the weekend - I know how much we all appreciate it.

I've gone into OE as you suggest and found the name of the store folder, but can't figure out how to access it. Clicking on 'store folder' just brings up a box with its name, which asks me if I want to change its location.

I don't suppose there's a way of making the same mail account both IMAP and POP3, is there? I need to access my mail (including old mail) from various locations, which is why I like IMAP, but after this weekend, I can see the need for backup!

Rik · Oct 08, 2007, 11:58:31

Hi Krysia

Quote from: krysia on Oct 08, 2007, 11:48:56
Many thanks for that, Rik, and for keeping us all posted on what was happening over the weekend - I know how much we all appreciate it.

That's kind of you, and appreciated.

Unfortunately, due to the circumstances of the problem and the fact it was a weekend, I couldn't get as much information as I would have liked.

QuoteI've gone into OE as you suggest and found the name of the store folder, but can't figure out how to access it. Clicking on 'store folder' just brings up a box with its name, which asks me if I want to change its location.

Once you have the folder name, you can navigate to it in Explorer, though you may have to change your settings to show hidden files and folders.

QuoteI don't suppose there's a way of making the same mail account both IMAP and POP3, is there? I need to access my mail (including old mail) from various locations, which is why I like IMAP, but after this weekend, I can see the need for backup!

I've successfully used OE6 as an IMAP client, then Outlook as a POP client on the same mailbox. The critical thing is to access IMAP first. With the old idnetfreemail addresses, it was possible to forward mail, but that doesn't seem to be an option on idnet.com unless I've missed something.

The failure this weekend is almost a freak occurrence. The chances of two disks in an array failing simultaneously is tiny. Unfortunately, if it does happen, then data loss is inevitable (unless large amounts of money are thrown at the issue) as mailbox contents is changing all the time.

krysia · Oct 08, 2007, 12:08:01

Many thanks again, Rik. I did try going into Explorer earlier but couldn't see the folder - I didn't realise it might be hidden! OE is obviously a lot more complicated than I thought it was.

I use Outlook at home for my work e-mail, which I access via a VPN, so I think it might be too complicated to add my home stuff to that (especially as at one point I deleted the local folders, as I never used them). As you say, the failure of two disks is a freak occurrence, so with any luck it'll never happen to me again . . . .

Rik · Oct 08, 2007, 12:09:46

Just a thought, Krysia, but if you were to create a new user on your home machine, you could separate the Outlook work and personal email... Alternatively, you could use something like Thunderbird to give you a backup of the boxes locally.

krysia · Oct 08, 2007, 14:00:47

That's a really good suggestion about using Thunderbird as a local back-up, Rik - thanks! I'd give you a karma or two for that and all your other help if I knew how!

So, just to make sure I understand, as long as I access my account first via IMAP in OE, accessing it in Thunderbird as a POP3 account will download the messages locally without removing them from the server?

Inactive · Oct 08, 2007, 14:04:20

Quote from: krysia on Oct 08, 2007, 14:00:47
That's a really good suggestion about using Thunderbird as a local back-up, Rik - thanks! I'd give you a karma or two for that and all your other help if I knew how!

Just click on the " good " next to karma on the forum, to add karma.

Rik · Oct 08, 2007, 14:50:33

Quote from: krysia on Oct 08, 2007, 14:00:47
That's a really good suggestion about using Thunderbird as a local back-up, Rik - thanks! I'd give you a karma or two for that and all your other help if I knew how!

Gratefully received, thanks.

QuoteSo, just to make sure I understand, as long as I access my account first via IMAP in OE, accessing it in Thunderbird as a POP3 account will download the messages locally without removing them from the server?

That will do it, but you need to set TBird to 'leave mail on server'.

krysia · Oct 08, 2007, 15:34:57

Sorry to bother you with more questions, Rik! Should I set it up as a POP account right from the start, and if so, where do I find the 'leave mail on server' option?

Rik · Oct 08, 2007, 15:40:35

Yes, set it up as a POP client from the outset. As to leave on the server, I was hoping you wouldn't ask that question, Krysia, as I never got on with TBird so don't have it on the machine any more. I can tell you for Outlook and Eudora, but that doesn't help much.

Is there a TBird user in the house??

krysia · Oct 08, 2007, 15:54:51

Just in case nobody answers that, I'm willing to try Eudora for my back-up POP3 account, so how would I arrange to leave mail on the server but also download it locally using Eudora?

Ray · Oct 08, 2007, 15:58:00

Krysia, I don't use Thunderbird but I do have it on my PC

You need to go into Tools - Account Settings

Then select server settings for the account on the left.

Then tick box for leave messages on server you have a choice of leaving them for 7 days or until you delete them.

If you have more than one account set up you will have to follow this procedure for each one.

Rik · Oct 08, 2007, 15:58:50

It's a while since I've used Eudora, but in the account setup, there was a checkbox for 'leave mail on server'. I've just been looking at the TBird introduction and FAQs, but can see nothing about such a setting.

Rik · Oct 08, 2007, 15:59:26

Quote from: Sheltieuk on Oct 08, 2007, 15:58:00
Then tick box for leave messages on server you have a choice of leaving them for 7 days or until you delete them.

Thanks, Ray - a karma is yours.

Ray · Oct 08, 2007, 16:02:17

Quote from: Rik on Oct 08, 2007, 15:59:26
Thanks, Ray - a karma is yours.

Thank you, Rik.

krysia · Oct 08, 2007, 16:04:09

Thank you both very much indeed!

krysia · Oct 08, 2007, 16:24:52

That's all seems to be working okay - thanks again for your patient instructions. One more question, however: Thunderbird only seems to have folders for inbox, unsent, and deleted items. How do you create folders for sent items and drafts?

Rik · Oct 08, 2007, 16:30:29

You don't.

On a POP client, the sent folder requires the item to have been sent from the client. The deleted folder is a bit like the re-cycle bin, and will generally be emptied on exit. There isn't the same relationship with the server as there is in IMAP, ie folders are purely local to the client.

The only way I can think of to do a 'perfect copy' of an IMAP setup is to make incremental backups of the OE data folder at regular intervals.