Why IMAP messages marked for offline viewing disappeared

[Simon]

I have this on my laptop, but have to confess, I have never used it, however, it might be some use to you, Krysia. 

http://www.goodsync.com/

[Nick AJ]

That's all seems to be working okay - thanks again for your patient instructions.  One more question, however:  Thunderbird only seems to have folders for inbox, unsent, and deleted items.  How do you create folders for sent items and drafts?

You need to set Thunderbird to "subscribe" to the sent items folder. (right click on the account name and chose subscribed folders). Also under [tools][account settings][copies * folders] you need to set TB to place a copy of the sent message in the sent folder on the IMAP account.  This then sends a copy to the email server so it can be displayed on any device logging on to the IMAP account.

As you most likely know IMAP acts like a master copy of your e-mails, so that you can access and view messages from any PC regardless of which PC sent them.

I must admit it is very worrying that IDnet have "lost" peoples IMAP accounts, hopefully they can be recovered from ofline backups.

[Rik]

The problem is, Nick, that we're trying to get TBird to act as a POP client to provide local backup of mail for Krysia. I don't use IMAP, but some of the data loss seems to have come from synchronising the local folders with empty server folders. The plan was to get round this by having TBird grab everything, but leave it on the server. If you can think of something better, please chime in as we're engaged in some very Heath Robinson fudging here.

The data loss stems from two disks in a RAID having failed simultaneously. As you'll appreciate, conventional backups of mailboxes are never going to be able to recover data completely, given the speed at which the data is changing. I know Simon is working with the array today to try and recover any data he can.

[Ray]

That's all seems to be working okay - thanks again for your patient instructions.  One more question, however:  Thunderbird only seems to have folders for inbox, unsent, and deleted items.  How do you create folders for sent items and drafts?

Krysia, you need to go into Account settings - copies and folders and make sure each account has it's check boxes as per this image you should then have sent and draft folders.





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[Rik]

I don't think they would be able to replicate the IMAP folders, though Ray.

[krysia]

Well, I spoke too soon when I thought everything was okay.  Thunderbird had started downloading messages before I could tick the box re keeping things on the server, but I quickly did so and was relieved to find that the messages were there both in my old F2S IMAP account and in the Thunderbird POP3 backup.  However, now that Tbird has finally finished downloading the messages, I've discovered my F2S inbox is suddenly empty!  Is there any way I can export the messages from Tbird back to OE? 

[Nick AJ]

Sorry guys, got things the wrong way round.

I was looking at TB being the IMAP client and Outlook being POP3. In many ways this can be better as Outlook isn't brilliant as an IMAP client.

If you are using outlook as an IMAP client you need to create a rule that copies your sent messages from the local sent items folder to the sent items folder on the IMAP account.  Outlook won't do this automatically.  Once you've done this it should keep a copy locally and also on the sent items folder on the IMAP server.

Hope this helps.

As regards the backups, from what I can gather we are talking about a two disk array on one machine?  Hardly over specified!

[Ray]

I don't think they would be able to replicate the IMAP folders, though Ray.

True Rik, I've got TB set up with a pop3 accounts and I only get the following folders under each account: -

Inbox, Drafts,Templates, Sent and Deleted

[Rik]

Sorry, Krysia. If I'd have thought, I should have warned you to drop the connection during setup, to stop TBird rushing off (as do all email clients, it seems, with the exception of Outlook).

I can't see an import facility on OE for TBird, but it might just work with the Netscape mail setting. Alternatively, what export settings does TBird have.

Keeping mail synchronised across multiple servers & machines is a nightmare. I use SynchPST for Outlook, in preference to IMAP, as it allows me to control the data. That said, to put things in perspective, I've probably received in excess of 5,000 emails from IDNet, and until Saturday, nothing had been lost. My 1&1 account was in turmoil for days in February, and I can't even estimate what was lost.

[Rik]

If you are using outlook as an IMAP client you need to create a rule that copies your sent messages from the local sent items folder to the sent items folder on the IMAP account.  Outlook won't do this automatically.  Once you've done this it should keep a copy locally and also on the sent items folder on the IMAP server.

Thanks, Nick.

As regards the backups, from what I can gather we are talking about a two disk array on one machine?  Hardly over specified!

As I understand it, it was two disks from five that failed.

[krysia]

I've been using OE as an IMAP account without any problems for a number of years - what I could use advice about now is how to get the messages downloaded into Thunderbird back into my OE IMAP account.  Presumably that's now impossible, given that the messages have been deleted on the server:  even if I got the messages into OE, synchronising the account with the server will make them disappear.  So, is there any way I can get them into my local OE folder - then I can delete Tbird and just hope for no more RAID failures!

[Nick AJ]

Well, I spoke too soon when I thought everything was okay.  Thunderbird had started downloading messages before I could tick the box re keeping things on the server, but I quickly did so and was relieved to find that the messages were there both in my old F2S IMAP account and in the Thunderbird POP3 backup.  However, now that Tbird has finally finished downloading the messages, I've discovered my F2S inbox is suddenly empty!  Is there any way I can export the messages from Tbird back to OE? 

You need to stop and take stock of where you are and what data you've got.

You can't transfer data from TB to outlook (as far as I know, but I'll wait to be corrected).

First of all take a backup of all you email data, both TB and outlook.

You could then create a new IMAP account on IDnet or F2S and use thunderbird to populate it by copying all the data from your POP3 account inbox to the new accounts IMAP inbox - hopefully it should then synchronise the two.  If you use IDnet the uploads won't count against your allowances.

Theres nothing stopping you having a POP3 and IMAP login for the same account with the same e-mail client.  Use IMAP during the day, then POP3 at night to "archive" the IMAP corrected  inbox.

[Rik]

Theres nothing stopping you having a POP3 and IMAP login for the same account with the same e-mail client.  Use IMAP during the day, then POP3 at night to "archive" the IMAP corrected  inbox.

Nice thinking, Nick.

[Nick AJ]

You can't transfer data from TB to outlook (as far as I know, but I'll wait to be corrected).

Well a google search has given a few possibilities:

http://www.broobles.com/imapsize/th2outlook.php

http://www.generetic.org/information-vault/2615-howto-export-emails-mozilla-thunderbird-outlook-2003-a.html

Plus others!

[krysia]

The problem is, I need access to old messages from diferent locations, so archiving in that way doesn't work for me.

You could then create a new IMAP account on IDnet or F2S and use thunderbird to populate it by copying all the data from your POP3 account inbox to the new accounts IMAP inbox -

I may try to create a new IMAP account on F2S - if so, how do I "use thunderbird to populate it by copying all the data from your POP3 account inbox to the new accounts IMAP inbox." 

[Nick AJ]

Ok, just had a play using thunderbird.

Create an IMAP account for your F2S email account - as it's now empty we can't do any harm.

Then choose one email in your TB inbox and COPY it to the inbox in the IMAP account.  It should then synchronise with the server and the email should be visible in the inbox using webmail.

You can do with it what you wish!

Good luck

[Rik]

Thanks for all your input, Nick. Have another karma.

[krysia]

Thanks, Nick, but I have about 1000 messages, so the one-by-one scenario isn't going to work.  Any faster way?

[Nick AJ]

Thanks, Nick, but I have about 1000 messages, so the one-by-one scenario isn't going to work.  Any faster way?

Well I only tried one - nothing to stop you doing them 100 at a time I'd guess...................

[krysia]

I need some more help, Nick.  When I click on a message and then find 'copy', it only seems to give me an option to copy it to Tbird.  Can you please spell out how I copy a whole message from Tbird and then move it to OE?  Thanks.

[Rik]

Hi Krysia, Nick's offline, so I'm going to put words into his mouth and let him correct me when he's next in.

I think the idea is to copy the mail within TBird, from local POP to local IMAP, then do a sync so that server IMAP matches local. Then use OE IMAP to get the files back to OE.

Does that make any sense?

[Nick AJ]

Hi Krysia, Nick's offline, so I'm going to put words into his mouth and let him correct me when he's next in.

I think the idea is to copy the mail within TBird, from local POP to local IMAP, then do a sync so that server IMAP matches local. Then use OE IMAP to get the files back to OE.

Does that make any sense?

100% Rik.

Or use one of the links to convert the data.

[Rik]

100% Rik.

Wow, I must be slipping. 

[krysia]

Thanks, Rik - that certainly does make sense!

[krysia]

And - whew! - it worked!  Now if someone could just suggest how I move 100 messages at a time . . . .