Web space?

[Noreen]

What do people do with web space, I'm utterly ignorant about it? I just wondered as it seems that we now all have some but not sure what use it could be to me.   

[Kheldar]

seeing as i dont have any Noreen, you could donate it to me 



else people tend to use it to store and show pictures etc

[Rik]

Basically, what Steve says, Noreen. As the free space doesn't come with anything like PHP etc, it can only be used to construct basic websites. I'm using mine to store pics, graphics and avatars, plus the Dunblane PDF.

[cavillas]

I use mine to display a picture and some links to some pdf files and other sites.

[Noreen]

The storing of images could be of interest. Are they only accesssable by the person who "owns" the web space?

[Rik]

Yes and no, Noreen. Basically, one you give out the URL, the space is public. However, if you place an index.html file in every folder you create, people will not be able to browse the contents. As the URL/file names are case-sensitive, then chances of someone guessing the right combination is slim. Let me know if you want the text for the index file.

[Ann]

I use my webspace.. not ID webspace though.. to show the state of play in a scrabble game that I run.  I occasionally put pics up too to show family but as I usually forget to take photos that doesn't happen very often.

[Noreen]

It sounds rather complicated to me, is it?

[Rik]

It's fairly straightforward, Noreen. Imagine the web space as another disk drive on your computer. You need an FTP client to communicate with it, but in other respects, you treat the space as a drive, creating folders, moving files etc. Instead of a simple drive letter and path to access the file, you use a URL, but it's not that different. To let other people see a picture, say, you just give them the full URL.

Alternatively, you can create browsable webspace with a little work. If you go to http://rik.www.idnet.com/index.html, you'll see a very basic web page which I knocked out to test the set up.

[Noreen]

Oh dear, I don't even know what a "FTP client" is. 

[Rik]

It's just a small program to communicate with the web site, Noreen. Think of it as an alternative to Explorer. One pane is the files on your local machine, one is the files on your web space. It's just a matter of moving them from one side to the other, or deleting files on the web if you no longer need them.

If you forget about the concept of web space, and think of it just as a remote hard drive, you'll find it makes more sense. If you only use it to share photos, that's exactly what it is, just like a PhotoBucket account, say.

[Noreen]

Thanks for your patience, Rik, I understand the concept now but where does one get such a program?

[Rik]

I should know this, Noreen, but what browser are you using?

If it's Firefox, download the FireFTP addon, it works like a charm.

If not, take a look at Smart FTP or Cute FTP.

[Noreen]

IE6

[Kheldar]

i've got / used Smart FTP.

took me a little bit of working out but even i managed to use it so hope for everyone 

[Rik]

The important thing to remember, Noreen, is that the username/password/url as given on the setup page is only applicable to nVu. For most FTP clients, you need to enter the url, username and passwords separately.

[colirv]

What do people do with web space

We use it just to let people know a little about ourselves (e.g. contacts we make through Usenet) and so that friends and family can read about what we're up to. It can come over as a bit of an ego trip, which is why I don't, for example, have it in my sig here! I actually have the web site hosted elswhere, but the IDNet web space is just as good.

Anyway, our website is here.

[Rik]

What software did you use to construct the pages, Colin?

[colirv]

Nvu. I only use it as a text editor, though, and for its preview facility - I upload by FTP. My html may not be perfect but at least it's mine - and doesn't have loads of Microsoft rubbish cluttering it up!

[Rik]

 

Can't argue with that sentiment, Colin. For others reading this, who are not aware, Nvu is the tool provided by IDNet.

[Noreen]

Well, I might have a go at this when I'm feeling a bit braver. Cute FTP looks to be the easiest.

[Ann]

I just use IE to move files.  They tell you not to do that but I have no idea why 

[Simon]

It's probably not very secure, Ann.

[colirv]

Cute FTP looks to be the easiest.

Although I've been using the Firefox FTP extension for a while, I used to use SmartFTP, and that's ok. It's also free, which CuteFTP isn't (and you'll need more than a month's trial if you're going to have your own website).

[Noreen]

Thanks for that Colin, hadn't realised that Smart FTP was free.

[colirv]

No probs. SmartFTP comes up with reminders occasionally that you're using an unregistered version, but doesn't mind you ignoring them.

[drummer]

I've been using FileZilla for FTP transfers lately it's not too shabby (plus it's open source). 

http://filezilla-project.org/download.php?type=client

[Simon]

That's worth knowing about, Drummer. 

[Rik]

Useful link, thanks Drummer.

[Noreen]

OK I've tried to set up my webspace and tried to transfer an image to it but at the address I get the IDNet logo and "Temporary holding page, content coming soon" and no image but with the ftp program I can access the image. What's wrong, in words of one syllable please.

[Rik]

Hi Noreen

Are you saying (I think you are) that you've uploaded an image, but when you go to your 'home' page you see nothing?

That's because the index.html file stops you browsing the page via HTTP, hence the reason you can see it with FTP. However, if you type the full url into your browser, including the file name (all case sensitive), then you should see the image.

The role of the index file is to create the 'browsed' page. The one which is there is just a placeholder.

[Noreen]

Thanks very much Rik, that was exactly the problem. I'm amazed that I've eventually managed to do this (with help). Have a karma. 

BTW I used http://www.goftp.com/

[Rik]

Thanks, Noreen.

If you delete the index.html file, when you go to the page, you will see the list of files there. You can prevent this by pasting the text below into Notepad, then saving it as index.html. Plonk this down on your page, or any folder you create below the base url, and people will get the message if they browse to your space. This allows you to upload photos and pass the URLs to people you want to be able to view them, whilst blocking the casual observer.

<html>
   <head>
      <title>No Browsing</title>
   </head>
   <body>
      <h1>No Browsing</h1>
   </body>
</html>


Nice find on GoFTP, btw.

[Noreen]

Rik, am I right in assuming that each image that I post on my space has its own individual address and that is how it's accessed? If so I don't understand how anyone could browse through the images. Sorry to be so ignorant but I've searched online for web space for dummies advice with no luck.

[Rik]

Hi Noreen

Imagine your webspace as a folder in Windows. If you know the folder name, you navigate to it in Explorer, and the files will be visible. So, if you upload your photos to the root webspace, or a folder, if people know the URL (root or folder) then they can see the files.

However, if you put the index.html file in the folder, they will just see a message saying 'No browsing'.

[Noreen]

Rik, I'm just not understanding this. If someone else can browse through my images on the web space, why can't I? Don't they have to know the "individual" address of each image?

[Rik]

If the images are browsable, Noreen, then anyone with the URL can browse them. If they are merely in your webspace (root or folder) but with an index.html file present, then they are invisible (unless the html file makes them so).

Would I be right in thinking that you've uploaded some images, and can see the files from your FTP client, but not from your browser? Do you see the placeholder message when you try and browse?

If so, that's just the index.html file doing its job.

[colirv]

Noreen, there are really two approaches to this. The simplest one is the one to which Rik has alluded. Load all your photos into a sub-directory of your web site. Don't put an index.html file in this sub-directory. Give your friends the URL down to this sub-directory level. If they type the URL into their browsers they'll get a simple list of the photos there, and they can click on each one to see it. This will be pretty secure, as no stranger will know the name of the sub-directory - as long as you have some index.html file in the main directory to stop them browsing that and seeing the names of the sub-directories.

For a little extra effort use a programe like this. This will give you browsable thumbnails - for an example of this particular program in action go here. This took all of 2 minutes to put together and load on the web site.

[Noreen]

Rik I can see the images both through the program and on the web space but I can only see them on the latter by typing in the individual address for that image. Is that as it should be? Do you mean that someone else can browse through the images only by using a FTP program?

[Rik]

Hi Noreen

Things are as they should be. When you use FTP, you login to the space and are shown the contents. When you use a browser, you are not logged in and so, providing the index.html exists, you don't see the contents. However, if you know the full url (ie, including the file name), you can view the pics.

No-one else can browse, unless you give out your login details, using an FTP client.

As an experiment, create a new folder and copy some pics into it. Don't create an index.html file, then browse to the folder. You should then see a list of files. Create an index.html file and upload it to the folder, then browse to the folder again, and the files should have become invisible.

To make the pictures more readily accessible, use a program of the type Colin linked to, or the NVu program that IDNet recommend.

[Noreen]

Thanks Rik, I think that I've cottoned on now. My poor old brain finds all this technology very confusing.

[Rik]

It's a bit of a conceptual leap, Noreen. Once you get the idea of what the index.html file does, it's easier to grasp.

[Noreen]

More questions Rik, sorry. I don't really understand where the index.html that you gave me should go. In the FTP program there are two panes, the left one with my HD contents and the right pane showing the web space contents. Is it supposed to go in the web space pane and overwrite the existing index.html? What then happens to the contents of the existing index.html? Or have I got this completely wrong?

Also does this new index.html actually stop others browsing or just suggest that they don't?

[Rik]

Hi Noreen

You can leave the existing index.html in place, or replace it with the one I suggested. In either case, it needs to be in the webspace, root or any folder you create.

It stops browsing - the browser sees the index file and will display the contents and nothing else. It doesn't stop people guessing at file names, but they have to get it exactly right, case as well.

IMO, the best way is to create a sub-folder, with a mixed-case name, put any photos in there together with an index.html, and you have reasonable privacy. If you wanted absolute security, ZIP the files with a password and let your friends know the URL and password, they can then download and unzip to view.

[colirv]

Noreen, just to give a little background, every web site has one or more pages (files, if you like). This page of the forum that you're reading is one such. Mostly the name of the page (file) will be "index" because that, according to worldwide rules, is the default file if you go to a directory on any web site. If that directory has an "index" file in it then that is what you'll see if you simply navigate to that directory. Generally the "index" file is there to provide content. If you look in the address bar at the top your browser now you'll see that this forum page is called "index", but it is index.php plus other stuff rather than index.html because it is written in a more complicated language and can do clever stuff. The principle, however, is the same.

Because browsers defaut to an "index" file in a directory if there is one, having one has a secondary use - it prevents people from seeing what other files you have in that directory. This is the use to which you are currently putting it. More often than not, however, "index" will contain a whole load of stuff, such as text and links (all the pages on my web site are called "index") and won't be there just to stop visitors browsing a directory.

[Noreen]

Many thanks for the help from both of you.

[Rik]

If you're still not sure of anything, Noreen, keep asking. My favourite word is why? That's closely followed by how and when! I drove my father nuts as a kid.