2 Broadband Lines - Vastly Different Speeds.

Kheldar · Oct 22, 2007, 16:24:51

As some of you will know i have about the worst broadand line in all of Christendom !

I've had a work VPN/ braodband line for sometime which has until recently been a fixed 512k. Recently we changed companies who provide this service and suddenly the work line now gives me around a 4mb connection !

Compared to about 1.5mb on my own home line.

Whats likely to be causing this ? The fact that the work line is 'new' installed earlier this year by BT and the home phone line is obviously much older ?

The reason for this post was spotting Alf's thread http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4109.0

Looking at that site and typing in my Line Attenuation I get the following back on my home phone line

Estimation of your maximum rate adaptive adsl speed
Downstream Attenuation 50 dB Approx
Line Length 3.62 km (other sites say it;s 3.11 km)

dslMAX 4832 kbps IP Profile 4000 kbps

adsl2+ 5152 kbps Throughput 4560 kbps

yet my router tells me :

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 1760 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 50 db 15 db
Noise Margin 15 db 24 db

And BT profile thingy says :

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 1250 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 1760 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1148 kbps

Does this mean if i had a new piece of string for my own phone line into the house it would improve to the same level as the other connection ?

Rik · Oct 22, 2007, 16:28:15

The probability is that you have a wiring issue, Steve. The thing to do is identify whether it's internal or external. If the former, and you call BT out to it (through IDNet), it will cost you £160+ for the fix. If it's external, you may get switched to a different exchange pair, to give you a shorter route back to the exchange, or simply a better one. I had this happen, as a result, I get 2 - 4x the speed of my neighbours, but even that isn't fast.

Kheldar · Oct 22, 2007, 16:35:52

Can i ask BT via Idnet to check it out ?

Rik · Oct 22, 2007, 16:39:13

I wouldn't. If you do, the chances are they will send out an engineer and if he/she finds a fault in your wiring, you will get a bill. Better, initially, to check out your wiring yourself.

Kheldar · Oct 22, 2007, 17:22:07

hmm dunno what to check to see if its internal or not.

just that with the 'new' line now showing around 4mb it just feels like the 'old' line need replacing !

Rik · Oct 22, 2007, 17:23:08

Can you trace the master socket, Steve?

Kheldar · Oct 22, 2007, 17:53:06

not sure !

i think i know where it is - but all sockets in house are old style not with the bottom half you can take off for test socket.

so sorta guessing !

Rik · Oct 22, 2007, 17:58:37

Well, in that case you are not going to be able to make absolutely sure. The best thing you could do is buy an IDC tool from Maplin or B&Q, then look at each socket in turn until you find the master (it will have extra components inside it. If the wiring all branches off from there, gently remove the connections to the extensions (terminals 2 &5) and the ringwire, if fitted (terminal 3). Then connect the router to that socket. See if your stats improve. If they do, re-connect the wires to terminal 2/5, see what happens to the stats. The problem comes if the wiring is in star-topology and the master is just at one end of a branch. In that case, you really need to be able to isolate the wiring at the 'starring' point, and that may be something you'd prefer to have BT do?

Glenn · Oct 22, 2007, 18:08:30

Take a look outside your home for the phone cable, whether overhead or where it comes out of the ground, then trace the cable into the building, internally, this will normally be next to the master socket.

Rik · Oct 22, 2007, 18:11:51

Good point, Glenn. because mine comes in 'underground' I forget that most people can do a visual trace.

Den · Oct 22, 2007, 18:13:27

The master socket is the one with a large capacitor inside. Slave points do not have this.

Glenn · Oct 22, 2007, 18:14:22

Rik mine is underground too, and waterlogged according to the last BT eng that came around 2 or 3 years ago.

Rik · Oct 22, 2007, 18:16:47

I know how it feels. What I meant about underground entry is that the cable is laid straight into the house, it doesn't have an entry point into the wall that's visible. Plays havoc with tracing it!

Lance · Oct 22, 2007, 22:34:41

Mine is also underground but it comes up at the side of the house in a tall plastic cover and into the side of the house. I guess this is how they used to do it!

Rik · Oct 23, 2007, 00:05:58

This house is 25 years old, Lance, so whether it's peculiar to us - maybe a builder installation - I don't know.

ducky22 · Oct 23, 2007, 03:08:38

Do IDNet definitely pass on the cost of an Openreach engineer?

I know other ISPs, BT Business for one, does NOT pass on this cost even if a fault is not found.

Lance · Oct 23, 2007, 07:31:02

If the fault is on your side of the master socket, then BT charge to fix it and this charge is definately passed on to the user (they may even have to pay it direct).

If the fault is BT's side, they fix it and no charge is generated.

As far as I know, the vast majority, if not all, consumer ISPs pass on the cost. When it comes to business ISPs, I imagine there is more money involved and therefore the ISP is more likely to pay it in order to keep the customer.

Kheldar · Oct 23, 2007, 08:51:55

thanks all.

from memory when someone had a look at the house a few weeks ago as I need the pc socket moved to another room to make way for the nursery all of the sockets in the house appeared to be masters.

ie iirc they all had capacitors in them ?

i'm hoping that the socket is going to be moved this week so i'll ask him to have another look around before deciding to contact Idnet / BT.

its just incredibly frustrating to find i can have more like a 4mb conn on one line and not the other.

Rik · Oct 23, 2007, 10:46:32

Quote from: Kheldar on Oct 23, 2007, 08:51:55
from memory when someone had a look at the house a few weeks ago as I need the pc socket moved to another room to make way for the nursery all of the sockets in the house appeared to be masters.

ie iirc they all had capacitors in them ?

That could be part of your problem. BT might fix that for £30, "Regularisation of illicit master socket".

Kheldar · Oct 23, 2007, 13:56:21

in what way part of the problem ?

£30 ? to do what exactly ?

Rik · Oct 23, 2007, 14:39:19

If you have a bunch of master sockets, they are all putting a capacitor across the line which will, in turn, affect the impedance and, therefore, the attenuation.

The £30 would be a direct payment to BT (report the problem via 151, not IDNet). The price is buried somewhere on this page I am told - though I've never found it.

Kheldar · Oct 23, 2007, 16:04:47

what would they do for the £30 ?

so are you saying Rik i should get sockets converted to being slaves and not masters to maybe improve line quality ??

Rik · Oct 23, 2007, 16:09:39

The £30 charge, reputedly, covers the conversion of an illicit master socket to a modern NTE5. I've never known anyone who actually had this job done, but it appears in a price list somewhere. All they would do for that is to replace the current master socket with an NTE5. If you want anything more done, the charges scoot up. However, with an NTE5 in place, it becomes reasonably straightforward to fit your own extensions, replacing any wiring or sockets which are causing problems.

Should you get it done? It's difficult to say it will improve things, but there's a fair chance it would. It would also get you a test socket so that you could establish whether your internal wiring is an issue or not.

Kheldar · Oct 23, 2007, 16:13:48

okies that makes sense and quite possibly is worth £30.

Rik · Oct 23, 2007, 16:19:50

The big trick is to get BT to accept that they can do it for £30!