Operating systems

Ted · Oct 26, 2007, 22:31:59

Hi,
Any Linux users here? just wondering what distros you use. I've run Mandrake/Mandriva for several years now (no windows here) and before that it was Suse and Fedora Core/Redhat.
Got 2008 installed at the moment, awesome OS.

Ted

Ted · Oct 27, 2007, 14:37:05

OK its just me then!!
I'll go and sit in the corner and cry for a bit

Rik · Oct 27, 2007, 14:42:49

I wasn't ignoring you, just couldn't say anything useful (regulars would not have noticed anything unusual

). We have had Linux users around in the past, but I can't think of any active members off the top of my head.

Simon · Oct 27, 2007, 14:48:26

Without wishing to self promote, PC Pals has a Linux section and we do have a handful of members who use it. If you're desperate for company, you might want to click the link in my sig.

Ted · Oct 27, 2007, 15:02:48

might have a look over there and see whats happening.
I must say i find it amazing that people don't at least dual boot Linux and Windows. Get the best of both and a lot less hassle.

drummer · Oct 27, 2007, 17:52:29

I've been messing about with Ubuntu for about a month now after auditioning about six different flavours via Live CDs.

Although I'm impressed, the command line is starting to grind me down a bit but it's early days yet.

Kheldar · Oct 27, 2007, 17:55:16

lino - yes we have some of that in the kitchen, might replace it soon actually.....

hang on, you what....Linux ?

whats that then ? a new form of super lino ?

Quote from: Rik on Oct 27, 2007, 14:42:49
I wasn't ignoring you, just couldn't say anything useful (regulars would not have noticed anything unusual ).

* Kheldar joining Rik's club

Rik · Oct 27, 2007, 18:00:54

Quote from: Kheldar on Oct 27, 2007, 17:55:16
* Kheldar joining Rik's club

We are an elite.

Odos · Oct 27, 2007, 18:02:41

I'm just starting to move over to PC Linux OS. I tried a number of different Distros and this was the only one that didn't screw up my hardware ( mainly HD partitions ). Been playing with it for a few months and must say I like it but there are a few things that you cannot do and others that are much harder to do in Linux than in windoze.

Not that windoze is all roses either, hence I have 3 flavours of that installed as well. Think it's just me being awkward

Rik · Oct 27, 2007, 18:07:52

Quote from: Odos on Oct 27, 2007, 18:02:41
Think it's just me being awkward

I thought it was called masochism, Tony?

Odos · Oct 27, 2007, 18:11:40

Quote from: Rik on Oct 27, 2007, 18:07:52
I thought it was called masochism, Tony?

So thats where the initials MS in MS Windows comes from

All I have to do now is find out what it means

Rik · Oct 27, 2007, 18:13:14

Google is your friend.

Ted · Oct 27, 2007, 22:22:57

Going out and paying £100 or more for an OS, then finding out it won't work with the bulk of your hardware or software. Now, that's what i call masochism!!
Mind you Vista is very pretty, although you could take a look at Beryl now compiz-fision, that's cool

Kheldar · Oct 28, 2007, 00:21:05

Quote from: Rik on Oct 27, 2007, 18:00:54
We are an elite.

classic game.

one of the best ever.

Rik · Oct 28, 2007, 01:09:55

Acorn, wasn't it?

john · Oct 28, 2007, 05:36:12

Quote from: xild on Oct 27, 2007, 22:22:57
Going out and paying £100 or more for an OS, then finding out it won't work with the bulk of your hardware or software. Now, that's what i call masochism!!
Mind you Vista is very pretty, although you could take a look at Beryl now compiz-fision, that's cool

I know what you mean I paid a fiver for a Linux magazine that came with a distro of Suse Linux and that was bad enough, It installed okay but configured the machine to default to start itself rather unless I selected Windows within a few seconds. It then didn't recognize most of my hardware including at the time my Broadband Modem so I couldn't connect to the net. Although there was a download for it it still didn't work also there was no support for my Canon printer or Epson scanner. Working in IT all day developing CADDS applications I didn't want to spend the evening configuring the OS to do the things it should do out of the box so I gave up with it. I was very disappointed as I never had this much trouble when I used Sun Solaris at work but we now use Windows XP there now so it's easier to use the same OS at home too. The only other experience I've had with Linux is a version of Red Hat several years ago and athough new versions appear to be easier to install the hardware support still leaves a lot to be desired.

cavillas · Oct 28, 2007, 09:35:59

I tried the latest Ubuntu 7.1 and was pleasantly surprised to see that all my hardware, except modem and graphics tablet, was recognized straight away. The setup was easy and when starting up gave plenty of time to choose between Windows or Ubuntu.

I took it off though because I like the fact that Windows just works.

Ted · Oct 28, 2007, 09:43:44

Oh dear, This seems to be turning into a Linux Vs Windows debate. There are good and bad things with both Unix based and Windows based OS's.
What i would suggest and did say earlier is to use both for what they do well.
We have 3 PC's and 2 laptops here running a mix of Win and Lin, all networked (wired and wireless) all use the same hardware, printers,routers etc. All coexist happily

Where would gamers be without Windows and where would command line geeks be without Linux,

(mild humor)
Five quid for a distro!! you were robbed. I bet the mag was a good read though so not a total waste. Tip time... download the iso from a mirror and burn it to a dvd for a few pence

most dvd's carry both 32 and 64 bit versions. And with the speed increase of IDNET they'll download in no time. Woo Hoo!
Red Hat stopped producing community versions a long, long time ago so if it was just a couple of years ago it was probably Fedora core or maybe even Thread Linux (Unless you bought it). Anyway the point is things have moved on a long way in that time.
Dell now produce a laptop with Linux pre installed and if i remember correctly its Ubuntu.
Some of these newer distros are very user\hardware friendly, For example, Ubuntu, Mandriva. Having said that it will be some time before hardware compatibility catches up with Microsoft, if ever. A lot of the blame here lies at the feet of hardware and software manufacturers who refuse to write and distribute drivers and software for Linux based machines.
I've always user ethernet modems and routers, never had a problem. Some usb modems can be problematic.
My eldest daughter has superglued her dvd drive shut so i can't put linux on her machine, HEHE, whilst my youngest gets excited when a new version is released, Oh well you can't "win"em all.

Odos · Oct 28, 2007, 10:45:47

I agree Ted, as I originally said I have Linux and 3 versions of windoze installed on the same machine so what I can't do in one I can do in another.

The compatibility issue I don't fully agree with you though. As regards hardware, yup thats down to the tardiness of the manufacturer, but software is a different matter. For example, last night I wanted to install an icon editor/manager in Linux. Found plenty no problem, installed following instructions no problem BUT they would not run, why ? because I need to download/install/reconfiigure a boat load of settings and libraries within the OS. Now that is just downright unfriendly

Ted · Oct 28, 2007, 11:20:12

Sorry, the kind of software i was referring to was commercial stuff, i.e. Dreamweaver, Photoshop, games, that kind of thing.
What were you trying to install? were you building from source, rpm, tar file?
I find the easiest and most foolproof way to locate and install open source software is from the associated repositories, of which there are many, using the systems own installer such as yum, yast or urpmi. Most can be used from the command line or GUI and do a good job at resolving dependancy problems.
I personally use urpmi from the command line because it gives you much more information and control over the process.
And again having said that, it can sometimes be a real pain in the backside getting things to work properly!

mrapoc · Oct 28, 2007, 11:55:03

I think VISTA is the bestest

I tried Ubuntu on "spare rig" but after being brought up on, 95, 98, 2000, ME and XP it just doesnt work :p I like the way it was sooooo easy to install etc. just couldnt get around the interface, also windows ain t too bad if you have a student license plus keep it very slimline (www.nliteos.com)

Ted · Oct 28, 2007, 12:04:58

Good argument

that's really got me thinking i've got it all wrong. Now, where did i put that copy of 3.1 for workgroups. Hmmmmm!!

Rik · Oct 28, 2007, 12:09:11

3.11 was better.

Ted · Oct 28, 2007, 12:13:00

only just

Lance · Oct 28, 2007, 13:15:38

I used both 3.1 and 3.11 but found very little differences between them at the time. I was only 7 though!

john · Oct 28, 2007, 13:25:09

QuoteA lot of the blame here lies at the feet of hardware and software manufacturers who refuse to write and distribute drivers and software for Linux based machines.

According to a story on the BBC news this year Windows was the OS used on 9 out of 10 machines so it would be unfair to expect manufacturers to develop drivers etc for a minority market especially when most of the remaining 10% will mostly be made up of Mac users. Shouldn't it really be up to the open source community to develop drivers for hardware.

Please don't misunderstand me I think other OS's do have some advantages over Windows. I would think Linux would be much more suitable for servers where there is not so much a requirement to support diverse hardware. Although Windows has it's faults it has the advantage of being virtually universal and therefore compatible with most hardware and sofware and also readily supported by external IT companies which is why it's used so much in industry who are the major users.

For industrial applications the cost of the OS and licence are not the primary concern. It's the compatability with their applications and the support costs that matter.

Rik · Oct 28, 2007, 13:32:16

Quote from: Lance on Oct 28, 2007, 13:15:38
I used both 3.1 and 3.11 but found very little differences between them at the time. I was only 7 though!

I was... No, let's not go there.

3.11 was really 3.1 SP1, very little difference in practice, just a little more stable.

Rik · Oct 28, 2007, 13:34:07

Quote from: john on Oct 28, 2007, 13:25:09
For industrial applications the cost of the OS and licence are not the primary concern. It's the compatability with their applications and the support costs that matter.

Not to mention training costs & productivity, John. Most people will be familiar with Windows, so it's a big incentive.

Ted · Oct 28, 2007, 14:14:22

Rik can i borrow your pointy white cap with the big red D on it, i've been unfair to the hardware manufacturers and i need to sit in the corner for a while

cavillas · Oct 28, 2007, 14:18:10

How can you be unfair to Capitalists?

They invest in R&D so a little bit more for Linux drivers would'nt amount to much, especially the prices they charge for their products and consumables.

I love free and shared.

Waiting for the flack now.

Ted · Oct 28, 2007, 14:26:15

you and me both!!

Rik · Oct 28, 2007, 15:23:30

Quote from: xild on Oct 28, 2007, 14:14:22
Rik can i borrow your pointy white cap with the big red D on it, i've been unfair to the hardware manufacturers and i need to sit in the corner for a while

It's OK, hardware manufacturers are unfair to us - no need for the hat.

Ted · Oct 28, 2007, 16:11:58

Thanks Rik, i look even more ridiculous in a hat

john · Oct 28, 2007, 21:43:19

Quote from: cavillas on Oct 28, 2007, 14:18:10
How can you be unfair to Capitalists? They invest in R&D so a little bit more for Linux drivers would'nt amount to much, especially the prices they charge for their products and consumables.

I love free and shared. Waiting for the flack now.

Hi Cavillas, get your flack defences ready then

Like it or not software manufacturers have to operate as a business and not a charity. The Open source community can have a different philosophy and have a policy of developing a free OS and support and therefore should be prepared to write their own drivers etc to support their OS's and applications rather than expect the business community to do it for them for free. If they did the additional costs would have to be added to the price of the products they sell making them less competitive with their rivals and also the Open source community would be subsidised by the Windows and Mac users.

Te open source community has to decide do they really want to be truly open source or do they want a watered down compromise.

Ted · Oct 29, 2007, 18:46:59

I thought this one had gone to bed !!
Just out of curiosity can anyone tell me what server software IDNET use on their servers? I'm really hoping its just Windows, I wouldn't want any of that watered down rubbish.

Ted · Oct 29, 2007, 19:10:44

Sorry, just a couple of thoughts

If you use a netgear router, you probably use Linux, ever heard of Busybox. Mobile phones use embedded linux too. The list goes on and on.
So, its ok for hardware manufacturers to take advantage of open source software when it suits them and its profitable, but when it comes to giving a little back to the community its, too much trouble and costs too much.

john · Oct 29, 2007, 19:16:54

It's not quite the same thing though as the manufacturers will have developed the software that is needed and not asked or waited for the open source community to do it for free.

Ted · Oct 29, 2007, 19:40:49

Where did they get the software to develop it?

john · Oct 29, 2007, 20:02:24

Okay I'll accept that the OS the software was developed for was free.

Ted · Oct 29, 2007, 20:07:23

Game, set.........and match!!

john · Oct 29, 2007, 20:12:21

But it makes no difference, I still think that Linux is doomed to be a minorty OS and the software houses are not going to develop applications for it if they are obliged to give them away for free and so the hardware manufacturers will not make much of an effort to write drivers for them just so they can sell a few more printers for example.

Ted · Oct 29, 2007, 20:46:16

I think the difference is that, you already lost the argument mate. Give it up!!

john · Oct 29, 2007, 21:10:11

Oh Okay then, I originally thought it was this was just going to be a discussion on the merits of different OS's but it's turning out to be, as you say, an argument. The pity is I would actually have preferred to use Linux as I learnt UNIX in 1990 and didn't start to use Windows until about eight years later and I only gave up my UNIX box 3 months ago (I can still telnet to the UNIX server though

).

Ted · Oct 29, 2007, 21:22:41

you're right it is a pity, just leave it.

Rik · Oct 30, 2007, 00:58:33

Quote from: xild on Oct 29, 2007, 18:46:59
Just out of curiosity can anyone tell me what server software IDNET use on their servers? I'm really hoping its just Windows, I wouldn't want any of that watered down rubbish.

The web space is Linux/Unix, I can't speak for the rest though.