Slow connection

[Gee]

Hi

Could someone give me some suggestions please, considering IDnet support has gone on holiday since yesterday - only to be back on 2nd of January - can you believe it???!!!!

OK my setup:

XP Professional
with IDnet for a year and a half
Broadband 8Mbps connection
USB ADSL modem Speedtouch 330
IE6

I have had a great connection of 6.8 Mbps since the day 1 (6.8 and not 8 due to local exchange limitation). However for the last couple of weeks, the connection has been going from bad to worse, varying hugely between 3-6 Mbps, but today it's far the worse and unacceptable 1.6 Mbs only!

I have run the fowlloing tests and these are the results:

BT test:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 1250 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 288 kbps(UP-STREAM)  1696 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1136 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.


ADSLguide test:

Speed Test Results
Date 22/12/07 20:27:30
Speed Down 1013.99 Kbps ( 1 Mbps )
Speed Up 241.48 Kbps ( 0.2 Mbps )
Port 80
Server speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk


http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/ test

My local exchange is showing as GREEN.

I have tried  disconnecting adn reconnecting, but its still reconnecting at just 1.6.

Please help.

Thank you

[Simon]

Hi Gee, and as you haven't received one yet, have a karma point!

IDNet have families too, which is why they have closed the office for Christmas, but we are here, and we will try to help wherever possible, and I believe IDNet would make themselves available in an emergency. 

Someone more technical than me will be along soon to try to help you, but just as a matter of interest, have you got Christmas lights up, and have your connection problems arisen since putting them on?  There has been quite a bit of talk on here about Christmas lights generating electrical 'noise', which can affect your connection speed.

[ducky22]

What we need is your line stats from your router. If you're not sure how to get these, post the router model and brand and I'm sure someone will be able to point you in the right direction.

Also, do you have filters on all phone points and have the router/modem connected into the MAIN BT point in the house (this is very important with up to 8mbit broadband) ?

[Den]

Hi Gee, Have you tried unplugging your router for about 5mins and checking to see what it re-syncs at? If it syncs at a higher speed you will then have to wait until BT lifts your profile which will take a few days but will happen automatically. The best time to do this is usually in the morning when there is less demand. It sounds as if you have had some severe interference on the line which has dropped your sync. Problems such as this are usually caused by bad telephone line and not the isp. 

[Adam]

It is also worth pointing out that IDNet support via email is still available by emailing support@idnet.com. Though I am sure the problem can be resolved here by supplying additional information such as router stats.

[Ann]

Hello Gee, on this page http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.htm is the instructions as to how to get your line stats from your modem.  You need to install Dr Speedtouch and read them from there.

As Adam said support is there as usual throughout the holidays, they are just using a different phone number, or use email as usual.

[Lance]

Although some support is available, it is only a limited service and as such, there may be a short delay between reporting the problem and receiving a response.

I think the problem here though is local to the line, as shown by the bt speedtest.

[Rik]

Hi Gee

As others have said, you seem to have a local problem affecting your sync speed and, therefore, profile and throughput. If you use the link Ann posted to extract your line stats, we'll have a better idea of the problem, but my instinct is that it's down to a noise problem, so give us as much detail as possible about your phone wiring; how many extensions, what's connected to them etc. Also, have you acquired any new electrical equipment in the past couple of weeks, or put up Xmas lights, for example?

[Sebby]

The first thing we can rule out is it being an IDNet issue as sync is nothing to do with the ISP. If you used to achieve sync of 6.8Mb, and now only 1.7Mb, something is seriously wrong.

USB modems are not good for Max products, but that in itself shouldn't be causing this issue, and we can return to that later.

The first thing we're all dying to see is the frog stats, which you can get by following the link posted by Ann.

At first glance, it would seem likely that there is a lot more noise around, possibly from Christmas lights. More noise = lower sync. Additionally, I suspect that due some instability of late, your target SNRM (Signal-to-Noise Ratio Margin) has been bumped up automatically by the exchange. This'll mean even lower sync still, as to achieve the increased SNRM, the sync rate has to decrease.

Something else to think about is whether you have a NTE5 master socket in your property. If you do, it might help rule out internal wiring being an issue. In the picture, you'll see the front plate is removable, and behind there is a socket. This is called the test socket, and plugging directly into there eliminates internal wiring and allows you to see the results as the line comes into your property.

Anyway, let's start with the frog stats and take it from there. Rest assured that we'll help you get to the bottom of this.

[Gee]

Thank you all for your quick replies! It's been a very interesting read and I have learned something new.

OK here is the situation.

#Firstly I don't have a router, I have a USB Speedtouch modem 330.
#Modem is connected as always, via the 5 meter extension cable, 3 way splitter and the filter to the MAIN (and only) BT point in the house - as always was (I cannot move PC closer).The other 2 ports on a splitter are used by a telephone and a Digital TV). The speed the extension cable has reduced is negligible.
#I have no Xmas lights at all.

Tests:

*I tried disconnecting and reconnecting, and the speed was the same, 1.6.
*I then tried Dr Speed Touch Diagnostics, but it was coming up with red at Internet connection(although connection works just fine). It's log file did not contain the 4 requested stats.
*I then tried what Dan suggested and switched off the PC, unplugged the modem, both USB and modem cable and replugged.
*I also remembered buying a disco light (don't ask) a month ago, and although it was not on, it was plugged in near the main BT tel line. I unplugged it.
*When I started on the PC just now, I've connected at 6.2Mbps.Wehey

So success? Yes, but I am not sure why exactly. I will watch it over the next few days, and report here if I find out the exact cause(light/time of day/tel line/loose connection etc). Interestingly , Dr Speed Touch Diagnostics is still coming up with red at internet

Thank you very much to all of you who replied and helped. Clearly you have solved it! Well done. Interesting about the Xmas lights Simon! Would never have crossed my mind.

Marry Xmas everyone!

(Oh and what are the karma points?)

[Inactive]

(Oh and what are the karma points?)

They are just a little, no cost way of thanking people etc.

Glad you are sorted.

[Gee]

Thanks Inactive, I got it now Good idea.

By the way, I just tested the speed again on the link you have in your signature, (http://www.speedtest.net ), and I'm getting a really low download, only ~1.3, which is worse then what I was getting earlier, on a low synk.

Speed Test Results
Date 23/12/07 02:28:34
Speed Down 1173.00 Kbps ( 1.1 Mbps )
Speed Up 374.38 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port 80
Server speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk


Any thoughts?

[Inactive]

Sorry Gee, I'm afraid I am not one of the experts on here, no doubt someone who is, will give you an answer very soon.

Have a Karma while you are waiting.. 

[Gee]

Oops, I made a mistake about that Frog test, it did give me the 4 required results, I was looking at produced .xsl file and I just noticed there is another one but .xml file. These are the results:


ReceiveAttenuation_dB= 16
ReceiveMargin_dB= 15
RxOutputPower_dBm= 0
SendAttenuation_dB= 8
SendMargin_dB= 26

Hope this helps.

[Gary]

Gee, do you turn your pc on and off a lot over a day? A usb modem logs into the network each and every time where as a router does not as it is always on as such, also your pc's cpu has to do the hard work rather than the router. Just asking because f you reboot a lot you may find your modem is seen to be a line fault possibly, also it may well be worth checking for new drivers for it from here http://www.thomson-broadband.co.uk/codepages/content3.asp?c=7&ProductID=471 the drivers are the same as the ST330. In the long term a router would be a better option, but for now follow the faq here as well to see if anything helps there, and Rik will be along to look at your stats. but try to update your drivers at least to the latest version which is 4.1 and consider a router which is safer and gives you better performance. 

[Rik]

Hi Gee

That 15db noise margin is what's crippling your speed. Although you have managed a faster sync now, it will take 5 days for the profile to catch up.

Is the extension lead you use flat or round? If flat, that will not be helping. You talk about the TV being connected to the phone. Is that a Sky box? If so, try unplugging that - they are often very noisy.

For your attenuation, you should be achieving an 8128 sync, with a profile of 7150. It looks to me like you've had a lot of instability, and you need to resolve the cause of that to improve things. A router should help, if you fancy making the change.

[Gee]

Thanks guys

#It's a round extension cable. I was also wrong, the extension cable is connected directly to the filter, and not via the 3 way splitter. So both sides of the extension (modem) cable have network and not the telephone port.
#I cannot afford the router, so that's out of question ATM.
#I switch the PC on/off no more then once a day (unless I'm installing something or it crashes).
#The driver is already v3.01 which is the highest for XP.


#I've disconnected the cable going to Sky box and removed the 3 way splitter, so now only phone and extension cables are plugged into the filter. I restarted a computer.
#Unfortunately this did not make a difference yet and Frog test comes in the same:

WANCommonInterfaceConfig
DSLUptime= 324
ErrorredSeconds= 2
LossOfFraming= 2
LossOfLink= 0
LossOfSignal= 2
PhysicalLinkStatus= Up
ReceiveAttenuation_dB= 16
ReceiveMargin_dB= 15
RxOutputPower_dBm= 0
SendAttenuation_dB= 8
SendMargin_dB= 26
TotalBytesReceived= 39220
TotalBytesSent= 26394
TotalPacketsReceived= 228
TotalPacketsSent= 228
TxOutputPower_dBm= 0
Uptime= 324
ChannelMode= Interleaved
Layer1DownstreamMaxBitRate= 6336000
Layer1UpstreamMaxBitRate= 448000
WANAccessType= DSL

and speed is down, ut this could be cos it's Sunday:



I guess I'll give it another 5 days for profile to hopefully catch up as Rik said.

Thank you for your help. Points to yall

[Rik]

Hi Gee

The key number to remember is 10. If the BT software sees that many reconnections in an hour, it regards it as an unstable line. It shouldn't see normal shutdowns as instability.

Have you tried a BT speed test? I'd be interested to know what your profile is set at. The 15db noise margin is going to limit your speed and, tbh, I'm not sure you are going to be able to improve things while you use a modem as the BT software will only drop that margin when it has seen a stable connection for 14 days, and that requires a router.

[Gary]

PC world have  sale at the moment you can get a Netgear router for I think £36 something like that and it will make a big difference to your line, the speedtouch 330 is really very basic and if you have a dodgy usb connection on it that could trigger a re-synch as Rik said really a router is the way to go, also the wiring from the soap on a rope to the 330 is I remember very thin, and would probably pick up a lot of noise 

[Gee]

Hi guys

I've just done another BT test here are the results:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 1250 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  6336 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 998 kbps


Judging by the Idnetters help page, my IP profile should be 5500, so clearly 1250 is not good. (Not that I understand what 5500 means anyways - forgive me for being a stupid woman  )

How can I raise that?

I don't mind leaving the pc on for 14 days if that will help.

Thanks

[Rik]

Hi Gee

It takes up to 5 days for a profile to recover, you can't speed the process up (neither can IDNet).

You must have connected at a low speed, less than 1728kbps, to cause the profile to drop. The most common cause of this problem is a burst of noise on the line at the time you connect (the noise isn't audible). Do you have a battery-powered AM radio? If you do, tune it away from a station, so that you only have white noise from the speaker, then try moving around with it near your phone wiring, extensions etc and see if you hear a change in the sound. If you do, that's the sort of noise which is affecting your ADSL.

The numbers quote are in kilo-bits per second, a full speed connection would yield 8128kbps sync speed with a profile of 7150. It's the profile which directly affects your throughput on it - it's BT's way of controlling their network for maximum stability.

[Sebby]

Sorry I'm a bit late in replying, but it's good to see you've found the culprit.

IP profiles are a bit pointless, and most of us wish they didn't exist. This is a great example: you've solved the low sync issue, but you won't see the benefits for 3 days. There's some more information about IP (or bRAS) profiles here.

You must be quite close to the exchange to achieve a 6.2Mb sync with a target SNRM of 15dB. You'll easily achieve full sync once this drops. Unfortunately, you'll never get it to drop with a USB modem, unless you leave your PC on for 14 days straight.

A router would certainly be a good investment, IMHO. 

I'm glad it's sorted, and if you have any more trouble, don't hesitate to come back to us. 

[Gee]

Thank you so much guys. I do hope I will see the improvement within 3-5 days.

Reading about IP Profile though, I am angered that BT takes 3-5 days to allow more speed, but is ever so fast to lower the speeds at only 75minutes (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm). I am further shocked that ISPs have no power over this. Surely this is a BT monopoly system Oftel should be made aware of, as certanly not in public interest? This is not fair on users - I feel like a fool for BT playing me for God knows how long!

Well rant over. Have a Marry Xmas yall!

[Sebby]

ISPs have no control as it's BT's equipment that controls this. To be honest, I don't think we need bRAS profiles. LLU services don't have them. What's the need?

Merry Christmas, and definitely consider getting yourself a router. Although, your target SNRM can't increase any further than 15dB, and your sync is still very healthy!

[Rik]

Hi Gee

The speed drops tend to occur pretty much instantaneously. The recovery can be in as little as 75 minutes if you sync at a really low speed and then recover to your normal speed. This is not for technical reasons, but to ease the processing demands on BT's computer system. Profiles are there for the same reason. Ofcom know about it, but they don't seem to have much interest in looking after the consumer.

Have a good Christmas, we'll be here if you need any help.

[Inactive]

Have a Marry Xmas yall!

...and you Gee.

[Gee]

Well after everything, the good connection (sync) of 6.2 lasted for about a day or two. Yesterday it went down to 5.9 and today won't go over 3.2. I haven;t changed anything since the last post, adn no lights etc were added. The PC was on non stop (due to my 14 day on plan.)

It seems that the connection disconnects at some point overnight and (as setup to redial), reconnects at worse speed. I just restarted computer to see if I can get a better speed, as it happens sometimes, but to no avail.

The IP profile stubbornly stood at 1250 throughout all this.

Pls help!

[Rik]

It sounds like a classic noise problem, disconnections at night are usually caused by this (though occasionally by BT engineering work). The fact that you're re-synching at a lower speed adds credence to the noise theory, if there's a lot of noise around when you re-sync, you will get a lower speed.

The profile won't recover while you're having low-speed issues unfortunately.

[Gee]

Thanks Rik for a quick reply. I hope you had a good Xmas!

Can you give me some more pointers of what could cause this noise? I just run the automatic BT line check and it says line is OK. Then I spoke to some guy and explained the Line noise problem and he called me back saying the line is fine. ARGH! He then said I should tell IDnet to contact BT wholesale dept to check this further. 

I dunno what else I can do indoors. I will now disconnect my phone as see if that makes any differrence, as the only ohter thing plugged into the filter.

Any other suggestions? (unfortunately I don;t have the little radio).

[Sebby]

Gee, have you tried the BT test socket as I suggested earlier in the thread? This will enable us to see whether it's the extension wiring picking up interference, or whether it's occuring before the line comes into your property. There is a chance it could be something in your property that will affect both, but it's not that common. The test socket is usually a good indicator, therefore.

[Rik]

Hi Gee

Thanks, I had a good day - we were surprisingly lively in here though.

Noise is always a problem to track down. In my own case, I've established that it's nothing to do with my own wiring, but seems to be mains borne. There's no point in me trying to get BT involved as they will not do anything.

In your case, it's significantly hampering your line. A router might help (it would help in restoring your profile and noise margin). Other things to consider are the layout of your phone wiring in the house (ie do you have multiple, hard-wired, extensions and, if so, how are they laid out, star or diasy-chained?), the quality of the filter you are using and other devices connected to the line. If you talk to BT, they will always refer you to your ISP once you mention ADSL.

It may be that you will need to involved IDNet, but before you do, try to eliminate the local potential problems. If IDNet get an engineer out to you, and there's not fault found, or it's found on your side of the master socket, you face a £160+ bill. If you talk nicely to support, they may be able to lend you a router to see if that helps, btw.

[Gee]

Oh I am so kicking myself right now like you wouldn;t believe! I made a crucial mistake!

I did not run a BT or speed test this morning prior to posting here and calling BT, so the last time I did was yesterday. I assumed things are the same or worse, due to sync going down to 3.2.

But after disconnecting the phone and BT testing the line, I thought let me test it just in case, and guess what:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps 
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  3392 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2293 kbps


I cannot believe it! Even though my sync has gone down, the speed has doubled! The stupid thing I'm so angry about is that I don't know when this happened, was it during the night, or did it just happen now after BT line test or unplugging my phone. 

I am so sorry about this guys, how stupid of me! I should;ve checked more, instead I only checked the sync, - which has grown to 3.3 after the tests and unplugging the phone.

Although this is much better, the problem is clearly far from over, so could you be so kind and please keep helping me and I'll try not to be so dumb in the future!

As for the Line, there is only one telephone port in the whole flat, and the ADSL filter is plugged into it. The main phone port is about 1.5 meters from the floor next to (about 10cm far) 1 electrical port, then little bit further is TV arial port, and another electrical port. A round 5 Meters RJ11 to RJ11 extension cable going from the filter to the Frog. Rj11 falls straight down to the floor then accross the floor runs to the Frog and meets it just before the computer.  The other electrical equipment (TV, SKY box, VCR and light) stays on the same level as ports, but to the right of the first electrical port so not really crossing the pathway of the RJ11.

RJ11 is now the only connection to the filter, as I have unplugged the 3 way splitter, the 2xphone and Sky box.

Frog is then connected via USb to PC. I have 3 other USB cables plugged in to PC as well, but not all working at the same time (camera etc)

Just a thought, I dunno if this could cause a line noise: I have Economy 7 electricity, so the expensive and cheap electricity changes overnight. Could this cause a surge or soemthing? Also this has caused some problem lately too, where EDF has been sending sygnals too many times and expensive/cheap electricity has been changing more then just once a night. They are in process of fixing this problem, but its ongoing every night still.

Sebby, I will look inot the socket thing now and let ou know.

[Rik]

Hi Gee

Your profile has clearly recovered from the original hit that it took, and is correct for your current sync speed. Throughput is a little low, but nothing significant. You might be able to improve things by tweaking MTU & RWIN settings.

If the socket is an NTE5 (with the detachable portion of the face plate) it would be worth trying at the test socket, but it's unlikely to make any difference. Where is your phone currently connected? If you are out of contract on the Sky box, or if you only have the one box, I would recommend leaving it disconnected unless you make a lot of use of interactive services, it's a potential source of noise.

The Economy 7 switching could cause noise impulses (it shouldn't, but if the meter is not in peak condition, it might). Unfortunately, you can't run routerstats on a frog, as that would give you a much better idea of when the problems occur. If you're anywhere near me, I could lend you a router to try.

One issue that might be worth thinking about is USB load. Modems are very high demand, both in terms of processor cycles on your CPU and power - they draw the maximum 500mA. It might be worth getting your hands on a powered hub and running the modem from that.

[Inactive]

Just a thought, I dunno if this could cause a line noise: I have Economy 7 electricity, so the expensive and cheap electricity changes overnight. Could this cause a surge or soemthing? Also this has caused some problem lately too, where EDF has been sending sygnals too many times and expensive/cheap electricity has been changing more then just once a night. They are in process of fixing this problem, but its ongoing every night still.

Never heard of that before, mine runs from a fixed time clock, so does my Daughters.

[Rik]

Most are done by local clocks, In, but some meters are set by a signal sent out on LW (possibly the Radio 4 transmitters). The idea was that the Ec7 period then remained the same when the clocks change, whereas on local clocks it shifts forward an hour in summer.

[Gee]

HI Sebby

It's not a NTE5 socket There are no other phone sockets in the flat.

I've disconnected the phones, so it's not connected anywhere, and used to be conenctd via 3 way splitter which was plugged into the filter, then in the past few days, the phone was connected directly to the filter.

As I've switched the PC off while taking tel socket off, I've just restarted and the sync is 4.5! Mad or what

Speed:


Dr Speed touch info:

ReceiveAttenuation_dB= 17
ReceiveMargin_dB= 15
RxOutputPower_dBm= 0
SendAttenuation_dB= 9
SendMargin_dB= 23

It would be great to test out the router, thught I'd need to learn how to use it

As for electricity, yeah, mine is sent sygnal from Radio 4.

Thanks guys

[Rik]

The higher sync suggests that noise is lower at the moment, Gee.

I don't think there's too much more you can try, except the powered hub or a router. Using a router is easier than a modem, there's no software needed on the machine, it just connects to your ethernet port. Most routers auto-detect the line, so all you have to do is enter your login and password the first time and you're away.

[Inactive]

Most are done by local clocks, In, but some meters are set by a signal sent out on LW (possibly the Radio 4 transmitters). The idea was that the Ec7 period then remained the same when the clocks change, whereas on local clocks it shifts forward an hour in summer.

Right, glad I don't have one then, my clock has been about an hour out for years, it means that I get low rate until around 10.00 am in the Winter...suits me.

[Rik]

We used to have a clock that 'slipped'. I had to check once a week to see where Ec7 was actually occurring.

[Inactive]

We used to have a clock that 'slipped'. I had to check once a week to see where Ec7 was actually occurring.

I have a switched outlet with a neon light on one of my storage heaters, that way I can always see what rate I am on.

[Rik]

That would work. Unfortunately, not for us.

[Sebby]

I'd certainly recommend getting a router. The "frogs" are not good with Max, IMHO. You can pick up a 2Wire 2700HG on eBay very cheap.

[Gee]

I appreciatte the router would be better, but I can;t afford it ATM.

Is there a tool anyone could reccomend where I can watch and record the ADSL traffic and/or find out when and/or why my modem disconnects at night? I've got DUMeter, but I cannot record the traffic and watch it later

Your profile has clearly recovered from the original hit that it took, and is correct for your current sync speed. Throughput is a little low, but nothing significant. You might be able to improve things by tweaking MTU & RWIN settings.

Not sure how to do that 
And also, although I'm glad IP Profile is better now, it should be 5500, so I'm desperate to find out the cause for the line noise

[Rik]

Hi Gee

The profile is correct for your current speed. Until you sync much higher, >6240, you won't get back to a 5500 profile.

I don't know of any software that will monitor a frog, I'm afraid. Is there anything in the Dr Speedtouch app - it's been a long time since I used it. DU Meter is really not what you need, as what you want to be monitoring is the noise margin and any re-synchs/sync speed changes.

If you're anywhere near me, I can lend you a router.

The whole subject of optimisation is covered in this sticky. Have a read and then ask about anything you're not sure of.

[Gee]

Well wanted to send an update  

After Xmas I decided to get a new phone. The old was a cheap rubish I bought down the market for a £5, so when it recently started crackling a lot, I put it down to the phone is dead. But when I plugged in the new phone and the crackling continued, it finally dawned on me (DAAH!) that maybe it's NOT the phone, and that the problem IS connected to my ADSL problem  . I had a 3 hr search but finally found the modem box and inside - a second (new) filter. Worth a try innit!

I changed it, and low and behold, I had a great stable ADSL connection ever since . AND no noise on the phone. I even plugged back the old phone and returned the new one to the shop last week.

I have no idea why a filter would be a problem, but it was definitly worth checking

I wanted to thank all of you who kindly offered help and especially over Xmas!  You are generous helpful decent people and your help is touching. I've learned a lot as well, and thankfully do not need to buy a new router just yet

Hope yall got some nice Xmas presents! 

[Sebby]

I'm glad you got it sorted, Gee.

The filter is something I certainly tend not to forget about; I usually think extension wiring is probably to blame, so it's useful to hear that this sorted it for you.

[Inactive]

Thanks for the update Gee, nice cheap solution, that's what I like to hear.

Belated Happy New Year to you.

[Lance]

Thanks for the update, Gee!

[Rik]

Hi Gee

Good detective work. I tend to forget about filters in that situation, as the ADSL side is actually unfiltered - but, of course, if the filter isn't working correctly, it will impact the service. (Note to self, check everything...  )

[Gee]

We have all forgotten it Rik so no worries With your help I have learned so much, and dismissed other possibilities, plus you were there for us during your holidays, so that is all equally valuable and I appreciatte it  

[Rik]

It's what the forum is about, Gee, and it's kind of you to let us know the outcome.