BSOD - HDD Problems?

[curly]

I have problems causing the blue screen of death . Using System restore I have recovered for some days, then it happens again.

MicroSoft Help says the hard disc is probably at fault and recommended immediate backup and hard disc check-up.
I have two HDD (SATA)  Both have two partitions. Disc 1 has C for OS and Programmes and D for data. I have backed up using Acronis True Image to disc 2 so that Partition E has image of C  and F has image of D..

If I open up the case to replace Disc 1 how do I tell which disc is which as they are both the same make, model, and size.

Since it is a "True Image" could I perhaps merely change over the drive cables?

Guidance on how to proceed would be most welcome. I am quite prepared to buy one or even two replacement HDD's.

Robert

[Rik]

TBH, I'm not sure how you work out which SATA drive is which, Robert, but you can't directly access the Acronis image just by swapping, it would have to be restored to a new drive.

HD failure is relatively rare these days, have you run CHKDSK?

[Ann]

In my experience you're okay until the hard disc starts going click, click, click and then you've got ten minutes to run round like a mad thing panicking before it dies 

Won't the mobo handbook tell you which is the SATA 1 socket and which SATA 2?  That'd be the easiest way to tell.

[Odos]

In theory you should be able to tell by the port numbering on the motherboard, the lowest numbered port used will be your C drive. In reality they are not always numbered correctly, my Asus board is a prime example.

If you have a startup floppy disk or CD then the easiest way is to unplug one of your HDD's and start your machine with the startup disk, change to C drive and look at whats on it. That should tell you which disk it is.

Hope this helps

Cheers

[curly]

Thanks for the helpful comments.

I have now defragged the C drive and to my astonishment it really needed it . Normally I do it once a month and it always says defrag not necessary but I do it anyway.  This time it was about two months since the last one – it was really needed and took a lot longer than usual
I then used CheckDisc It took about four tries before it would start. Took ages, didn't have time to read the results. Then when I tried to start the PC , Checkdisc started up and went through the whole nausea again. Couldn't read the results again but a popup window said check carried out and the drive was "clean"

Restarting the computer took several tries including one BSOD , and a system restore. The MS Help now suggests that there might be a rogue driver. I think I might uninstall a couple of programmes that I rarely use – try a bit of a clear out, might help.

Since the HDD's seem to be OK it's looking like a re install of XP.. How about a "repair" .? The book says that this preserves all your programmes and still gives a clean installation of the OS. That seems a bit unlikely, there must a catch somewhere .

I'm writing this in Word, and a "Tip of  the day" has just come up – "It's never too late to learn to play the piano"   Never seen that one before. How  did the PC know I was trying to learn to play an instrument?   

Robert

[Rik]

A repair would fix any critical files, Robert, so it's worth a try. As to the piano, it's amazing how far AI has come.

[Glenn]

I find the major cause of BSOD is caused by graphics drivers getting corrupted. Id there anything useful that points to a bad driver in the event log?

[drummer]

First thing to check is what message is displayed on the BSOD in the upper part of the screen.  It's often fairly obscure, but may give a clue.  The numbers on the bottom of the screen are only relevent to MS boffins.

It could be one of your HDDs but could also be any other piece of hardware or corrupted drivers for said hardware so, as has been suggested, have a root through your error logs.  The chances of it being an installed program are pretty remote, though not impossible.

You can run CHKDSK within Windows from the Command prompt for the D, E and F drives, just so long as no files are being used on those drives.

I can't really comment on using the Repair console as the only time I used it, it created a new partition without asking, then did a fresh install of XP.  I had to use a (different) recovery CD to retrieve all the essential files from the previous installation of XP because that partition became locked.

The suggestion of uninstalling one of the HDDs is something I would try if you still think one of those is culprit, but first use diskmgmt.msc from Start->Run to determine which is which.

Most HDD manufacturers have downloadable disk diagnostic tools, so that's something else to explore.

It may horrify you to know that I do a defrag every day (more if I'm doing major video/audio stuff) but I use Diskeeper which is an absolute marvel and takes minutes rather than hours to do a full defrag on a 250Gb SATA drive.  There's a freeware Lite version which is just as good as the pro, but lacks all the bells and whistles:

http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=1207

But the likelihood is that the HDDs may not be the problem.

[Lance]

I find RAM is often the major cause of BSODs, after driver issues that is. MEMTEST86+ should eliminate the RAM.

[curly]

Thanks again everyone. I must say you are a very helpful bunch.

A few queries:-
1. How do I access the error log? Is it one of those things that needs Einsein to decipher?
2. How do I read the BSOD ? It is only visible for seconds – I don't get time to focus on it.
3. Drummer – how do I run check disc from drives D, E or F?
4. Drummers experience with "repairing" sounds rather frightening. Is it possible to stop this happening?
5. Lance – How do I access MEMTEST and use it?

I think the above shows how little I know about computers. I didn't realise I was so dim.

Robert

[curly]

Looking back at my last post - I should have put event log not error log.
Sorry. 

Robert

[Lance]

Hi Robert,

You can get memtest from here

I would download the ISO ("Download - Pre-Compiled Bootable ISO (.zip)" and burn the file onto a CD. Once you have done that leave the CD in the computer and it will run next time you reboot the system.

What you are looking for is to see if it generates any errors when it tests your ram.

[somanyholes]

Most HDD manufacturers have downloadable disk diagnostic tools, so that's something else to explore.

sounds like the best thing to do to me. I would definately load up eventvwr and look for red disk errors in the system log.

[Rik]

1. How do I access the error log? Is it one of those things that needs Einsein to decipher?

I'm not sure where it will appear on your menus, Robert, so the certain way is to hit Start > Run and then enter C:\WINDOWS\system32\eventvwr.msc and hit Enter.

[drummer]

To run CHKDSK from Windows, Start->Run type cmd and hit OK to open the Command Prompt box and type chkdsk d: and hit Enter on the keyboard.  If it reports errors (bad sectors), type chkdsk d: /f (note the spaces) to fix errors.  If the disk is locked, the fix will take place the next time you restart your computer.

Do the same for the E: and F: drives, but use the /f switch only when errors are reported.  My preference is to fix each disk/partition as a separate reboot so that I can keep track of what's happening (more time-consuming but it keeps me happy).

As I said, I've only used the Repair console once, so my experience may not be typical and I may have missed a trick.

To save yourself a bit of typing, the event viewer can be reached from Start->Run eventvwr.msc 

[Rik]

I think that the repair console works differently to the repair installation, Drummer. I'm loath to give advice because, the one time I used it, like you I ended up with a separate Windows installation, but there is a way to get into a repair installation by starting the installation process, then opting for repair. Instructions are here.

[drummer]

That's the way I did it Rik, which is why I'm also loathe to suggest this method...

[Rik]

That's two of us who got bitten then.

[curly]

Haven't progressed very much with all the helpful tips yet. It's all very time consuming, When you're not sure what you are doing.

However, have now accessed the event log . To me, it doesn't give any real pointers to the culprit. But looking at the times of errors it looks as though I am using the internet when they occur..
Could the browser be the problem?

I started Fire Fox and started to browse through id netters forum. After a few minutes Fire Fox flashed up a window saying problem encountered and FF must close! A report of this has been sent to Mozilla. So it looks possible that my copy of Fire Fox has got its knickers in a twist.

Should I uninstall FF and reinstall, or should I wait for Mozilla to send me Comments?

Robert

[Rik]

Did the error log show anything, eg an application hang, Robert?

[anz1066]

i had a similar problem to yours, bsod`s, lock ups, drive clicking. the solution was a new psu. the conections were loose or faulty. since changing my psu i have had no problems
btw i use a sata and ide drive in my pc
loads of sites say if ur drive starts clicking it`s on it`s way out, don`t believe this. the click is sometimes caused when it is parking. if your power cable is faulty to the drive, it will power up and down resulting in click sounds(parking)

[curly]

I don't know how to decipher the error log. Perhaps this might make sense to someone.

Going back couple of days.

APPLICATION
12Errors.
Source – all are user env
Category – none
Event  -    1511      user -    Robert
1515 Robert
1502 System


1508 System
1511 Local Serv
1515 Local Serv
1502 Local Serv
1508 System
1511 Admin
1515 Admin
1502 Admin
1508 System

SYSTEM

Source – System error   Cat(102) event – 1003   User N/A
   Servicecont ma        none      7026   N/A
   ServiceCont ma        none      7026   N/A
   DCOM           None      10005   System
   DCOM           None      10005   Admin
   DCOM          None      10005   System
Warning User32          None      1073   N/A
WarningUser32           None      1073   N/A
   SystemError      (102)      1003   N/A


WarningW32Time        None      36   N/A
   DCOM           None    10025   System
   ServCont ma        None      7026   N/A
     "      "       "                "      7001     "
     "      "       "           "         "        "
     "      "       "           "           "            "
     "      "       "           "         "     "
   DCOM              "       10005   System
Warning disc              "      51   N/A
   Viasraid              "      9   N/A




As in the Viewer Screen the latst events are at the  top 07/01

I looked at the Mozilla web site and found I am using Fire Fox version 1, so I should upgrade any way.

Robert

[curly]

Just had another BSOD. Event viewer said "System Error"

I was using FireFox to browse idnetters.

Robert

[Rik]

Are there any red flags in either the application or system logs, Robert?

[curly]

Allthose listed above are red flag errors except the warnings which are greenflagged

Robert

[Rik]

So you're getting a red flag error, but it only says 'system error'?

Does the problem stop if you use IE rather than FF?

[drummer]

Just to be clear curly, are you double-clicking the red flags to elicit further information?  Usually it alerts you to what part of the system is cronking out.

Apologies if you're alredy doing this, but your earlier post seems to refer to the Viewer and not the log properties.

[curly]

Sorry the warnings are YELLOW flagged NOT green.

Robert

[Rik]

But are you reading the messages, Robert, or just looking at the 'headline' in the viewer?

[curly]

The warnings were Yellow flagged not Green
Robert

[Rik]

I realise that, Robert, but have you read the full messages, or are you only looking at the log 'headlines'?

[curly]

Apologies. I didn't realise that right click on the flag brought up more info. Having done that there were two soft ware programmes mentioned. Firefox and AVG. I have cleared out the FireFox version 1 and replaced it with version 2. At the moment it works fine using a dial up connection - how do I get back on to the broadband connection. I suppose there must be settings to put into FF.

My next step will be to uninstall AVG. Should I reinstall it or change to another anti virus? looking back I seem to remember most of the BSOD came soon after big AVG up dates, and there have been a lot of those recently

Robert

[Rik]

Hi Robert

Changing the browser shouldn't have affected how you access the 'net. Go to Tools > Options > Advanced > Network > Connection - settings. There, choose 'direct connection'.

If that doesn't resolve it, check that your settings in IE are set to never dial.

As to AVG, it's not one I have used, but a lot of people seem happy with it. It's certainly worth uninstalling and re-installing, but don't do too much online in the interval.

[Inactive]

I use AVG without any problems at all, as Rik suggests, try a re-install.

[curly]

If something electrical doesn't work the first thing to do is switch it on! I feel like an absolute idiot. I should have checked that the router was switched on. I should have seen that the indicator lights were not lit. For some reason my wife had switched it off at the wall socket!!!!!
What can I say? It's the first time it's been switched off in years because it also supplies a cordless phone base station.

As you suggest I'll do a reinstall of Avg tomorrow

Robert

[Rik]

It's happened to us all, Robert - have a calming karma.

[Lance]

I hope you had a good moan at your wife, Robert, for spoiling your router's uptime statistics!!!

[curly]

Thanks for being so understanding.

Lance - I'm not moaning too much at her. She's having a bad time at present, her only sister is in hospital seriously ill. too far to visit and the patient phone system is incredibly bad and expensive.

Since things seem to be working OK at the moment I'll leave AVG as it is and see what happens.

Thanks everyone for your help and apologies for being so dim. But what can you expect when my long white beard keeps getting tangled in the keys!
                                                     

Robert

[Rik]

when my long white beard keeps getting tangled in the keys!

It's why I keep mine trimmed short, Robert.