Wiring Fault, advice requested

[hemzy]

Hello, first of all a message to Rik who was extremely helpful to me in December, Idnet resolved my throughput issues by having me disconnected and reconnected; all the evidence pointed to an exchange fault and after the reconnection all was well.

I now have a new problem, about 3 days after my reconnection I started receiving queries from friends about their inability to contact me by phone, long-story-short my phones were not ringing on incoming calls.

I took off the faceplate and plugged directly into the test socket....all was well.

After ringing the BT helpline, they advised me to change my faceplate as there is a hefty call out charge if an engineer attends and finds the fault is my side of the master box.

After a little searching I opted to buy an "adsl nation XTE-2005".

My wiring on the back of the original faceplate was as follows...

2- blue with white patch
3- green with white patch
4- white with green patch
5- white with blue patch

I was a bit uncertain because I understood that 3 and 4 should be orange and white combinations but another thread on the forum stated that this was not always the case and to go by the numbers.

The XTE-2005 didn't have a terminal No4 as it says it is no longer in use

So I connected the terminals as stated with the blue/white in terminal 2 and the white/blue in terminal 5. As terminal 3 was the redundant bell wire I did not connect it.

ADSL was fine, phone was ok ringing out but would not ring on incoming calls. I tried putting the bell wire onto terminal 3 but no change.

So dear Netters, have I made a boo-boo or do I have a potential fault on the BT master box. I am a little suspicious that as it happened within a couple of days after being reconnected to ADSL at the exchange that there may be a problem there, or is that not likely.

I'm not very au-fait with all this stuff as Rik will testify to after helping me with my last problem so please be gentle with me.

Thanks
Hemzy

[Rik]

Hi Hemzy

Glad your original problem got sorted.

If the phone rings when connected to the test socket, there's no BT fault. (Easiest way to test, btw, is to dial 17070 and opt for the ringback test, usually 1). What happens if you connect the phone via a filter to the test socket (or have you already done that?).

Does the phone ring when connected to the front of the faceplate, but not at other sockets, or does it not ring at all? Do you have a different phone you could try?

[hemzy]

Hi Rik, nice to hear from you again.

When the phone is connected to the test socket via a filter, incoming calls cause the phone to ring correctly and ADSL works fine. When I have either the old faceplate or the new faceplate connected with just  the blue/white on terminal 2 and the white/blue on terminal 5 then the phone will not ring but ADSL is stillfine.

Hemzy

[Rik]

Do you have other sockets, or do you only use the master?

[hemzy]

We use the master for the downstairs cordless phone which has a second base unit upstairs in the room where the PC is (where I am typing from now). These are both working ok from the test socket.

We have an older wired phone plugged into a BT installed extension point in the bedroom this has stopped ringing now that the downstairs phone is plugged directly via an adsl filter into the test socket.

[Rik]

So does the cordless phone ring OK from the master socket, as distinct from the test socket?

Have you got a spare filter to hand that you could plug the upstairs phone into? If so, does it then ring OK?

[hemzy]

No, this is the problem Rik, when the cordless is plugged into the master socket it will not ring but it does when plugged into the test socket.
I do have a spare filter, I'll go and plug the wired upstairs phone into it and try it, I also have a spare wired handset I'll try in place of the existing upstairs wired phone.

Before I carry out these tests should I plug back into the master socket?
I'll wait for your reply before doing so because I'll go offline  for a few moments when I unplug.

[Rik]

You'll need the faceplate (master socket) back in place to reconnect the upstairs phone, Hemzy. (If it's working with the faceplate removed, then the fault is with the wiring of the master socket).

At the moment, it sounds like the filtered faceplate might be faulty.

[hemzy]

I'll go and try out the tests you just suggested. I'd be surprised if it was the filtered faceplate because the fault originally occurred with the standard BT faceplate. The new faceplate was an attempt at curing the original fault.

I'll report back shortly

[Rik]

If you can plug the faceplate into the filter that's currently in the test socket, that will save disconnecting ADSL (remember the 10/hour rule), and it will also give a clue as to the fault - if the phones then start ringing, the circuitry in the faceplate is not generating the ring voltage.

[Broadback]

I have used this site, in particular this page when I have been stuck:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/Telecoms/Telephone%20Wiring.htm

[Rik]

Useful link, thanks.

[hemzy]

Hi Rik,
Well, I've just about exhausted my tests and my patience, I've tried all the tests and the only combination which works is when I plug into the test socket. Nothing works in either the old or the new master socket whichever way round I plug them in.
I'm wondering if one of the wires (white/blue & blue/white)  has a fault or a break in them as it seems strange that a fault which developed when the original master faceplate was fitted should transfer to the new one I bought; I think it's unlikely to be the new faceplate.

Ive also exhausted my available time right now so I think I may have to consider my options.
I'm loathe to get BT involved as I doubt that it is their equipment at fault, on the other hand if I delve too deeply myself I could end up making things worse.

[Rik]

Hi Hemzy

It is an odd fault, and it's not going to be straightforward to track.

Were you able to connect the faceplate (either one) to the filter in the test socket and get a ring?

What happens if you try with the faceplate which is not currently connected to the internal wiring?

Was the upstairs phone working when you had the faceplate unplugged and were connecting the downstairs phone via a microfilter to the test socket?

[hemzy]

It is an odd fault, and it's not going to be straightforward to track.

Were you able to connect the faceplate (either one) to the filter in the test socket and get a ring?
Answer...no

What happens if you try with the faceplate which is not currently connected to the internal wiring?
Answer...no

Was the upstairs phone working when you had the faceplate unplugged and were connecting the downstairs phone via a microfilter to the test socket?...Answer...no

I seem to be at a dead end with this; I do have a multimeter available, do you happen to know if there are any specific voltages I should be registering on the two wires?

[Rik]

From memory, one side of the exchange pair is at -46V DC, the other is at earth. The ring voltage is higher, somewhere around 80V I think.

The tests were to try and eliminate possible wiring oddities. If the upstairs phone was working with the faceplate disconnected, then it was wired from the back of the master. Clearly that's not the case. As both faceplates have failed, I would have thought there was a fault in the wiring to the extension, eg a partial short. However, that shouldn't have stopped the unconnected faceplate from working normally.

Can you photograph the back of the faceplate and the bit of the master socket on the wall?

[hemzy]

I will take a photo and post it for you, unfortunately it will have to be tomorrow as I am now out of time. Thanks for all your support Rik, have a good evening and I hope to be in touch tomorrow.

Cheers

[Rik]

OK, I'll be here.

[Simon]

OK, I'll be here.

Where else? 

[Rik]

I was thinking of my favourite moor, just outside the family seat - but it's a heck of a drive for a quick stroll.

Can you see anything I've missed with Hemzy?

[Simon]

Can you see anything I've missed with Hemzy?

I have no other suggestions, Rik.  Sorry.

[Rik]

That's about where I'm at. It's a weird fault, but unfortunately, it's also on Hemzy's side of the test socket.

[Rik]

It could be the ring wire, except the ring doesn't work at the faceplate either. At the moment, my money is on a wiring fault draining the ring capacitor.

[Simon]

Have we established that the line is 'live', and it's just the ringer that's not working?  Could it be anything to do with the ring wire, often mentioned on here?

[Simon]

Sorry, we're treading on each other's toes.