Wiring Fault, advice requested

[Rik]

The line is live and the phone rings if plugged into a filter connected to the test socket. Once the faceplate is in place, though, the phone no longer rings. It can't be that the extension is wired to the back of the master as that is disconnected once the faceplate is removed. The fault started before Hemzy fitted a filtered faceplate, so that seems to leave the wiring. The ring wire only carries the signal to the extension, not to the faceplate, so it can't be the lack of that. I think... 

My toes didn't feel a thing - it's just good to bounce thoughts off you to see whether I've missed the blindingly obvious.

[Sebby]

Having read through this thread, I can't think what it could possibly be. Rik's suggested everything I could think of and more. My only suggestion is to maybe post in the technical section over at Think Broadband as there are some very techy guys there.

[Rik]

Thanks, Sebby. As I say, the more eyes the better for this one.

[Simon]

Once the faceplate is in place, though, the phone no longer rings.

Right, so doesn't that suggest that the faceplate is somehow stopping the ring?  Is the ring wire connected to the faceplate, or could the faceplate be causing some sort of short circuit?

[Rik]

What I want to check with Hemzy is what happens if he connects the faceplate, but with no wiring. If that rings, the fault is in his wiring - probably a partial short somewhere which allows the ring current to drain, but not so bad as to stop the voice working. OTOH, if both faceplates stop the ring tone with no wiring, then I am stumped, as the likelihood of two faulty plates is very slim. The other issue would be how the wires at the extension are connected.

[Sebby]

Thanks, Sebby. As I say, the more eyes the better for this one.

Indeed. It's not for one minute that I think you won't be able to sort it, Rik.

[Lance]

Could he disconnect the extension wiring from the back of the faceplate so that the extension is completely disconnected from the circut. Once this is done, try the phone. If the then still doesn't work for either faceplate, surely the wiring before the faceplate, and therefore BT's is to blame?

Sorry if this has been suggested, i only quickly read through!

[Adam]

surely the wiring before the faceplate, and therefore BT's is to blame?

As it works at the test socket I doubt it's a problem with the BT side of cabling, perhaps the NTE5 could be broken though.

[Lance]

Good point adam, i forgot it all worked it the test socket!

[Sebby]

As it works at the test socket I doubt it's a problem with the BT side of cabling, perhaps the NTE5 could be broken though.

That's a point, it could well be the NTE5 itself.

[Adam]

That's a point, it could well be the NTE5 itself.

It sounds like it could be, though I think he has tried two faceplates. I believe faults with the termination device itself fall under BT maintenance.

[Rik]

Except... The working circuitry of the master is on the BT side of the test socket, ie it's connected when using the test socket. The only function of a conventional faceplate is to plug into the test socket and convey the circuit to the front panel socket and any wires connected to the faceplate for extensions. So, basically, we come back to the issue of the ring working at the test socket.

If Hemzy can try one or both of the faceplates with no wires attached, and the ring then works at the master socket, then it has to be the wiring or the remote extension.

[hemzy]

Good afternoon Rik and other fellow Netters.
Wow, I seem to have started something with this. I want to express my appreciation to all of you for trying to help out.

OK, here is the latest sitrep.

At Rik's request I have taken a couple of pics of my phone point and I will put them here for you to look at. I'm not convinced they will tell you much, as you will see, the blue/white is on terminal 2 and the white/blue on terminal 5.

The green/white and white/green which used to be on 3 and 4 are visible but not connected.

Now please hear this, this is how the wiring was configured before the fault appeared.

Essentially, the fault boils down to a loss of ringing when the master plate was fitted. When I removed the plate and plugged directly into the test point then the fault went away except that my extension is now dead. I believe this suggests the fault has to be mine and not BT's.

I have been reading through the previous threads and will go and try Rik's experiment whereby I disconnect the wired completely from the back of the master plate, plug it in and see if the phone rings. In the meantime here are the two pictures attached (I hope)


[attachment deleted by admin]

[Rik]

Hi Hemzy

That wiring certainly looks OK, though i would suggest putting a piece of insulation tape over the end of the unused green/white pair.

If you can try the 'blank' faceplate, it's about the one diagnostic left without special equipment. If your phone then rings, it has to be the extension wiring and/or the remote socket. If it still doesn't, and the same applies to both faceplates, it would suggest either faulty faceplates, but the odds on getting two of those seems very small, or a faulty master socket, which is not generating the necessary ring current. You could test for that by plugging the filter into a faceplate - if the phone then starts ringing, it's the circuitry on the back of the master which is faulty. The good news there is that it's down to BT to fix.

[hemzy]

Hi Rik, thanks for the reply.

OK, I think we've now identified the nature of the fault.

I plugged the unwired master plates into the test socket and the phones rang as they should do.

I guess that proves it is a wiring problem on the extension. I agree that it would be stretching coincidence to believe that a new faceplate should arrive with the same fault as the old one.

I'll have to weigh up my options now. Either get in an electrician/engineer to track and remedy the fault in the wiring. Alternatively, it may be simpler to tape off and discontinue using the extension and instead simply buy an additional cordless base station; they aren't expensive and they are readily available. The only reason we have stuck with the wired extension was because it was there to be used but a cordless unit would be a simple fix.

do you have any further thoughts?

[Rik]

It would be worth trying the extension with the other pair, and/or disconnecting the wires at the far end, with them connected at the master. If it works with the switched pair, then the pair itself is faulty, if it works with the remote socket disconnected, then the problem is in that.

If you're using DECT, you won't need another base unit, just a handset should do.

[hemzy]

Hi Rik,

My apologies, I said base unit and gave the wrong impression. I didn't mean the main base unit, just the stand with the built in battery charger for the handset. I'll possibly go for the extra handset option for the meantime and explore the possibility of getting the extension sorted at a later date.

In the meantime, I'd like to again express my sincere appreciation to you and all the fellow forum members for taking the time and trouble to bring your expertise to bear on my problem.

Many thanks to all.

Hemzy

[Rik]

Glad to help, Hemzy. At least we got an answer - the ones which are frustrating are the ones where we just can't find the fault.

[Lance]

Glad you are someway to sorting it, Hemzy.

[Sebby]

I'm glad you found the fault in the end, Hemzy. 

[g7pkf]

Sorry just picked up on this thread and yes i am a telephone engineer.

after reading it it "sounds" like the wiring to the extension is wrong-or the extension socket is another master socket (overloading the line as it has another resistor and capacitor on it).

take the extension apart and check the wiring.

the site previously stated http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/Telecoms/Telephone%20Wiring.htm


shows the correct wiring. you could find the extension was not installed by someone who knows what they are doing and used the wrong pair's if a capacitor and resistor (and possibly surge arrestor are present in the extension) remove the capacitor and resistor (cut them out) you can leave the surge arrestor in as it makes no real differance.

Hope that helps sorry if i mis-read some of the thread...

[Den]

On your diagrams you are showing the ringer wire still connected through to the slave sockets which is not in line with the advice we have received and give out to folk who have speed problems. Are you sure that this is correct or is this the reason your speed is down. 

[g7pkf]

Don't talk to me about speed

Luckily i am in telehouse weekly and get 25-30MB up and down from there. so when i need a new iso i don't download from home.

And yest you are quite correct the ring wire should not be connected unless required.

sadly i collect "old phones" that need the ring wire so i have my own pbx (2 actually) in my house

***not sad-just a hobby***

[Broadback]

It may simply be your extension telephone. You may have tried this, I must admit there are so many replies now that it is hard for an old chap like me to follow them  I had an odd fault on my line, asked BT for help.  First thing they asked was that I unplugged all telephones then plugged each one back in one at a time, no problems. The next step was telephone A and B, then A and C etc.  It turned out that one of my extension phones was the cause, so I binned it and bought another.  Lets face it they are cheap.

[Adam]

sadly i collect "old phones" that need the ring wire so i have my own pbx (2 actually) in my house

The latest NTE5 has a ring wire filter, I wonder if that would be any use in your case?