think i have a problem!

[psp83]

Right, where do i start.. Just tried using the net and got a page could not be found message.. So i thought i would check the router..

I look at the log and notice alot of disconnections.. heres part of the log.

INF       2008-01-19T 05:25:52Z      lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 05:25:53Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:12:01Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:12:02Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:12:40Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:12:41Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:13:10Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:13:10Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:13:40Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:13:41Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:14:13Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:14:14Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:14:42Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:14:42Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:15:12Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:15:13Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:15:43Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:15:44Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:16:13Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:16:13Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:16:39Z    ppp:  ppp0: LCP terminated by peer
NTC    2008-01-19T 06:16:39Z    ppp:  ppp0: Connection terminated.
INF    2008-01-19T 06:16:39Z    ppp:  ppp0: connection lost, reconnecting...
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:16:40Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:17:12Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:17:12Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:17:40Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:17:41Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:18:09Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:18:09Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:18:37Z    ppp:  ppp0: LCP terminated by peer
NTC    2008-01-19T 06:18:37Z    ppp:  ppp0: Connection terminated.
INF    2008-01-19T 06:18:37Z    ppp:  ppp0: connection lost, reconnecting...
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:18:37Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:19:10Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:19:10Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:19:39Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:19:40Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:20:08Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:20:08Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:20:37Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:20:37Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
NTC    2008-01-19T 06:20:37Z    ppp:  ppp0: Connection terminated.
INF    2008-01-19T 06:20:37Z    ppp:  ppp0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF    2008-01-19T 06:20:41Z    lmd:  pppoa0: creating VCC 0/38 encap 4 on dsl
INF    2008-01-19T 06:27:02Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:27:02Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 06:35:43Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 06:35:44Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost
INF    2008-01-19T 08:04:25Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 08:04:26Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lostet
INF    2008-01-19T 10:48:07Z    lmd:  dsl0: down (signal lost)
WRN    2008-01-19T 10:48:07Z    vrsip:  Broadband connection lost

The other log shows i'm getting diconnections with my SNR at 12 and a sync rate of just over 6000. So its affecting my connection now 

Also. what does this mean?

INF    2008-01-19T 06:16:39Z    ppp:  ppp0: LCP terminated by peer
NTC    2008-01-19T 06:16:39Z    ppp:  ppp0: Connection terminated.
INF    2008-01-19T 06:16:39Z    ppp:  ppp0: connection lost, reconnecting...

From another part of the router i'm getting a message.

DSL Line (Wire Pair):     Line 1 (inner pair)
Downstream Rate Cap:    8128 kbps
Downstream Atten. at 300kHz:    32.8 dB
Uncancelled Echo:    -2.8 dB    Suspicious - check phone filters and alarm
VCXO Frequency Offset:    14.4 ppm    Ok
Final Rx Gain:    22.4 dB    Ok
Impulse Noise Comp. Tones:    0    Ok
Excessive Impulse Noise:    0    Ok
Impulse noise protection:    0.00
Delay of latency path:    0.25 ms

I dont have an alarm and i dont have filters.. its one of those built in things BT put on.

We have had BT down the road doing stuff for the last few days until we had a power cut and now the road is dug up and the sub station ripped apart as they are working on it.. this is right next to the under ground "hub" BT was doing work on.

So, do you think i should drop this essay of to support?

Thanks for reading 

Paul

[Rik]

Hi Paul

It's not your week for telcos is it.

I've never seen anything like that from a 2700, but to me it suggests that BT are doing work which is causing unwanted effects on your line. In this case, I do think that you should go straight to support with your 'essay', as they can look at the line from their side, and get a good idea of what's happening.

[psp83]

Email has been sent.. Lets hope they find something or someone's butt to kick!!

Your right though Rik, it hasn't been my week at all 

[Rik]

Could you let us know how you get on please, Paul. It will add to the knowledge-base on translating the 2700.

[psp83]

Will do.

BT will probly come out again "Find nothing wrong" and charge me another £169 

I don't know how they get away with it.

But its weird that your connection always seems much better and stable after they've gone and starts playing up again a few months later.

[Rik]

I suspect they won't need to come out, from what you say. Let's hope I'm right.

[psp83]

Well it looks like my SNR target has been put to 12 after whats happened today 

Rebooted the router and got these stats :

Current Rate:         6816 kbs         448 kbs
Max Rate:       6840 kbs       1072 kbs
Current Connection:
   Current Noise Margin:       12.0 dB       25.0 dB
   Current Attenuation:       36.9 dB       24.5 dB
   Current Output Power:       19.8 dBm       12.3 dBm

[Rik]

Let support know that, preferably with a BT speed test or two to support it. They can then try to get BT to reset it.

[MoHux]

....... I dont have an alarm and i dont have filters.. its one of those built in things BT put on.

If it's a filtered socket it could still have a fault.

If there is a phone plugged into the same socket, unplug it, see if things improve.

[psp83]

phone was unplugged all night.. only the router plugged in..

I have 6 re-syncs/disconnections and the SNR on all was above 12.
I've never had this problem before when my margin was above 6.

Got disconnected at 1:15pm today according to the router and margin was at 13. Re-connected with a higher sync thou.

So something has gone wrong somewhere.

[Rik]

I wonder if BT are working at the exchange, they seem to favour weekends.

[psp83]

The exchange is less than a mile away so i might take a walk upto the old castle tonight to see if there is any BT vans around. Will use that as an excuse to stop in the pub near by aswell 

[Rik]

Sounds like a plan, Paul. Is your mobile working again yet?

[psp83]

Yeh Rik, Came bak up late thursday, even though orange said it wont be back up till yesterday.

Signal is still up and down though so it looks like work is still being done. Went out of town yesterday shopping and signal was 100% all the time.

[Den]

Nice place Aswell   we have a pub near Aswell aswell 

[psp83]

Heres an update.

We can see the drops from the results of an historical line test however we can see no immediate cause for the fault being flagged. Tests on your line for today show no fault condition and your line appears to be stable.

Please let us know if you are having difficulty still and we will be happy to investigate further for you however we are unable to investigate fault conditions which are not currently occurring.

I've asked IDnet to investigate further as i've done everything my end, including buying new routers. If a 2wire router can't stay stable on my line then i dont know what can.

[Rik]

Keep us posted, Paul.

[psp83]

Another update

The SNR was raised by the DLM in an attempt to stabilize your line in response to the problems at the weekend. Now your line has been stable for over 4hrs the DLM will be monitoring your line and as long as it remains stable the SNR will be altered automatically. Once the SNR has been altered the BRAS profile will alter restoring your speeds.  This should all occur within the next 3 days.

Please refrain from rebooting your router during this time and let us know if you see any further drops.

Will monitor the logs and wait 3 days till i contact IDnet support again.

[Rik]

How's your speed going to recover if you don't re-boot the router? 

[psp83]

i guess the equip at the exchange will do it on the fly?

[psp83]

i also get alot of "retrains" in a day 

whats your retrains like on yours rik?

[Rik]

i guess the equip at the exchange will do it on the fly?

It would be unusual. Usually, the only only way to get a higher sync is to force a reboot.

[Rik]

i also get alot of "retrains" in a day 

whats your retrains like on yours rik?

About one in 12 days on average...

[psp83]

Looks like i will be contacting support again tomorrow.. I keep getting disconnections/re-syncs at SNR's of 13.. sync has dropped even more now.. its around 6000kbps now, but i have been getting full sync since i've been with idnet until last weekends problem.

[Rik]

Have you tried at the test socket (if you have one)?

[psp83]

not yet.. but the box is less than 6months old and nothing else is connected 

[Rik]

It's just the one thing, other than the router, that you can eliminate. Otherwise, it's back to IDNet for more digging.

[psp83]

cant really try the test socket at the mo, got no filters and i need the phone connected over night and for the next few days..

I've had 3 routers in a year.
Netgear DG834PN
Netgear DG834G
2wire 2700HGV

Had the same problem at one point with all 3.. So i can't see it being a router problem.

[Lance]

I agree, especially as they use different chipsets.

[psp83]

well i've lost another 300kbps+ off my sync this morning.. I'll be at 0 soon 

i'm at 5984kbps with a margin of 15 and still getting re-syncs 

router is still giving me this :
Uncancelled Echo:    7.7 dB    Suspicious - check phone filters and alarm

[Glenn]

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/11608 give some info on the Uncancelled echo

[Rik]

So you're saying Paul's phone is being tapped, Glenn? 

[psp83]

Here you want to look for Uncancelled Echo and Impulse Noise Comp. Tones.
Uncancelled Echo would report Suspicious if there was a lot of echo on your line, such as caused by bridged taps out on the phone circuit.

And this means 

Support is passing this onto BT, i'm waiting to hear back what excuses BT give this time and then suddenly my line is all better again after BT looking at it and saying nothing was/is wrong.

[Rik]

There was a thread on TB a while back about BT not admitting faults. The theory went, iirc, that it allowed Openreach to meet their targets.

[psp83]

BT sucks, I dont like nothing about them, When i was on there monthly dial up package.. before it changed to 150mins a month, I left them and they kept charging me for months and i phoned them every month until i threatened action againts them.

So BT has it in for me 

[Rik]

BT has it in for everyone, Paul. 

[Glenn]

I was thinking more along the lines that they have shared the line with another circuit, to do a temp fix

[Rik]

Can they do that on an ADSL-enabled line, Glenn?

[Glenn]

They shouldn't but if the engineer is not an openreach one, would he know which lines are ADSL enabled, I don't know?

BT won't allow shared lines to be ADSL enabled though.

[psp83]

And what rights do i have if this is the case?

[Rik]

I'd imagine the right to get it sorted, Paul. Let IDNet know of the echo error message.

[Glenn]

I would think it is highly unlikely that they have done what I posted above, but you never know. I'm sure IDNet will get to the bottom of the problem with BT and may let you know what the fault was

[psp83]

BT have came back with no errors and according to BT and IDnet systems, My connection has been stable and connected for 2 days with no drops..

So, its looks like a router problem 

I have to re-connect the netgear andrew from IDnet configed for me and contact IDnet tomorrow.

This is a weird problem.

Time                             Line     Rate       Max1     Max2     Max3     Mgn1    Mgn2    Attn    Pwr    CRCs   FECs   INP     DLY
2008/01/22 00:50:39 GMT 1        6912       6916     6384     6384     12.0      10.0      37.0    19.8   445     0      0.00    0.25
2008/01/22 04:43:19 GMT 1        6336       6356     5788     5788     12.0      10.0      37.0    19.8   785     0      0.00    0.25
2008/01/23 01:10:33 GMT 1        6176       6192     6012     6012     12.1      11.0      37.1    19.8   2459   0       0.00    0.25
2008/01/23 08:35:15 GMT 1        5984       6008     6952     6952     12.1      15.0      37.1    19.8   77      0       0.00    0.25

The person i spoke to on the phone said the retrains i'm reporting would cause a re-connect to idnet aswell and its not.



So if its not the router, then i'm stuck for ideas.

[Rik]

Do you have an exit code against that data, Paul (scroll right)?

[psp83]

 

scrolling right only gives upstream stats.

[Rik]

Keep going... See below.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[psp83]

i dont know but i will check when i get home from work later and will post it here if it does have one.

[psp83]

Sync down to 5600 kbs now 

exit codes: ERR_LOS_LIMIT and RETRAIN_HIGHER

heres a spreadsheet of the whole retrain stats.
http://www.uposted.co.uk/training-stats.xls

file has been scanned for viruses with NOD32 and reports clean.

[Rik]

LOS would be loss of sync, not sure what the limit refers to. The retrain-higher is interesting, as it did - and mine did the same last week. It's possible that this router is smart enough to know when it's worth re-synching to get a higher speed.

The LOS is a puzzle, though, it would suggest noise bursts.

[psp83]

ERR_LOS_LIMIT = loss of signal, Says in the 2wire manual.

[psp83]

The weird thing is.. IDnet and BT say i have been connected to there equip for 2 days without a disconnect or re-sync.. And the person i spoke to on the phone said the retrains would show me reconnecting to the equip..

So the question is... is the router at fault and reporting wrong information?

[Rik]

ERR_LOS_LIMIT = loss of signal, Says in the 2wire manual.

I wonder does signal mean sync or PPP session? Most routers, LOS would be sync.

[Rik]

So the question is... is the router at fault and reporting wrong information?

It has to be a possibility.

[psp83]

detailed log has reported both.. but more sync loss.

i have rebooted the router and still getting Uncancelled Echo:     13.9 dB     Suspicious - check phone filters and alarm this cleared saturday when i rebooted but its now staying.

[Rik]

That needs to be looked at. Have you told IDNet about it? It sounds like a job for the SFI team.

[psp83]

I told the person on the phone. he didnt seem to bothered to be honest.

Just told me to put the netgear back and let them know tomorrow.

So i will do that before i go to bed tonight.. in the mean time, i'm logging everything the 2wire gives me as i'm fed up now and want this problem fully sorted out.

Just got a few "connection reset" messages when browsing sites 

[psp83]

whats the number for fault checking on the line?

[Rik]

17070, option 1 is ringback, option 2 is quiet line, the rest need a PIN.

[psp83]

whats the best option?

[Rik]

There isn't one. It's worth doing the quiet line, and report a voice fault if you hear crackles, but beyond that, unless you hear an echo on voice calls, there's little testing you can do.

One trick published here, and my apologies for forgetting the member's name, is to report that you get an intermittent crossed line and can hear other people's conversations. That will get a pair swap for you, but it may be good or bad news in terms of ADSL.

[psp83]

One trick published here, and my apologies for forgetting the member's name, is to report that you get an intermittent crossed line and can hear other people's conversations. That will get a pair swap for you, but it may be good or bad news in terms of ADSL.

I think i'll leave that one for now my line was fine, but something happened in the early hours off sat morning and had problems ever since. Surly your sync shouldn't keep decreasing if your line is meant to stable 

[Rik]

No. My hunch is BT did some work at the exchange and knocked something... But then I'm like that - blame BT at the drop of a hat.

[psp83]

i just unplugged everything, even the RJ11 from the wall socket.. powered down the router first thou..

Uncancelled Echo:     -3.5 dB     Ok

Current Rate:         6368 kbs         448 kbs
Max Rate:       6380 kbs       1084 kbs
Current Connection:
   Current Noise Margin:       12.0 dB       25.0 dB
   Current Attenuation:       37.0 dB       25.0 dB
   Current Output Power:       19.8 dBm       12.0 dBm

So its slightly better. Maybe it is the router 

Line test was well.. couple times i heard a noise like someone walking through dry leafs or something like that with a couple of pops. but then went clear and then came back again then went etc.

[Rik]

You shouldn't hear anything at all - except maybe a slight hiss. I'd say it would be worth reporting as a voice fault, see if they pick anything up on their tests (I think you can do an automated test yourself on 151).

[psp83]

i've tried 151.. it does the check then says the phone is in use. please press 1 to hang up to check your equipment..

[psp83]

Well i'm back on the Netgear DG834G at the mo, getting better pings than what i did with the 2wire.

Profile was on 1250 earlier, its back up to 5500 now.. The profile changed quite quick 

[Simon]

That's rather off-putting.  I don't know whether to use my 2700 now, when it arrives.   

[psp83]

Mines was fine for about 2wks.. had probs on sat when everything went mental.

I dont know if its the router or something else yet.. will post updates when i get more information from logs, idnet and bt.

[Simon]

Thanks Paul. 

[psp83]

No prob... Me and Adam had the same kind of retrain problem thou, but his line wasn't hit as hard as mine was 

Maybe there was a faulty batch off routers 

Have to remember to phone support tomorrow so they can run there tests on this router.

[Adam]

Have to remember to phone support tomorrow so they can run there tests on this router.

Keep us updated on what happens; I for one would be interested to see if it is the 2700 (or that batch) that is causing problems.

[psp83]

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 5500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  6272 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 5130 kbps

Now i've got to wait for my SNR to decrease now.

Off to work now and will phone IDnet when i get there.

[Rik]

Sounds like we may have encountered our second batch of faulty routers. I'm assuming your profile recovered quickly as it was a big step...

[psp83]

yeh, it was about a 5000 increase.

Just phoned idnet, the netgear has been stable all night unlike the 2wire.

Got told that 6272 sync will be the best i will ever get, but since i've been with idnet i have been getting top sync! As my sig proves.

[Rik]

Got told that 6272 sync will be the best i will ever get

On what basis, Paul?

[psp83]

Well i asked if they can get my margin reset since it was put to 12 and basically got a no as an answer and got told 6.2mb sync was the best i get and that the MSR for the line is 4.5, so the line is doing better than what it should.

So my question is.. why was i getting top sync in the first place and since i was, why won't they put the margin back to 6 which was put higher due to a dodgy router?

[Rik]

Do you know who you dealt with, Paul?

[psp83]

I have no idea. I might phone back later and talk to Tim, since he's the one that sold me the netgear when i had my first problems and also dealt with my probs on the phone.

[Rik]

Probably a good idea, or Simon, who does more of the techie side.

[Lance]

It would be interesting to see what would happen if you swapped back to the 2700HGV, Paul. Not that I'm suggesting you do it though!