Interleaved

[RA-1972]

what does interleaved do or what does it mean ? if any one can help .

cheers.

[Rik]

Interleaving is used to introduce error correction to a line, it helps to stabilise the service. Sometimes, it gets turned on when it's not needed, if you can post your downstream sync speed, noise margin and attenuation, we can take a guess at whether that might have happened in your case.

[Niall]

From an FPS gamers point of view, it doubles your ping and makes FPS gaming virtually impossible.

[g7pkf]

Interleaving etc explained


Gives a good no nonsense basic explanation.

gamers and voip users don't like it. But if your on an iffy line it can be the only way to get the line stable.

[RA-1972]

hi this is what i got off me router ..


   
  DSL Status: UP 
DSL Modulation Mode: Auto 
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED 
Downstream Rate: 6336 Kbps 
Upstream Rate: 448 Kbps 
Downstream Margin: 10 db 
Upstream Margin: 20 db 
Downstream Line Attenuation: 23 
Upstream Line Attenuation: 26 
Downstream Transmit Power: 19 
Upstream Transmit Power: 11 
LOS Errors: 0 
   
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and yes i am a fps gamer too cs, cod4 etc

[Rik]

You seem to have an increased target noise margin, this would usually be done if the line has been unstable (dropped connections). Invariably, BT turn on interleaving at the same time.

Try pinging www.bbc.co.uk and www.idnet.net - I get 24ms pings with interleaving on.

[RA-1972]

i am getting the early 30 ts just done speed test and speed is good .



]speed test[/url]

[Rik]

Interleaving etc explained


Gives a good no nonsense basic explanation.

gamers and voip users don't like it. But if your on an iffy line it can be the only way to get the line stable.

Useful link, Dean, thanks.

It might be worth mentioning that, as I understand it, there are different 'depths' of interleaving which can be applied, so the hit on pings is not always that bad.

[g7pkf]

You seem to have an increased target noise margin, this would usually be done if the line has been unstable (dropped connections). Invariably, BT turn on interleaving at the same time.

Try pinging www.bbc.co.uk and www.idnet.net - I get 24ms pings with interleaving on.

same ping times here

[RA-1972]

It could be that i am still in the first week with idnet .

[Rik]

i am getting the early 30 ts just done speed test and speed is good .

Ignore the pings on the speed test, they are always wrong. Early 30s says you have medium interleaving on. If you can improve your line's stability, by improving your internal phone wiring, it might be worth asking for the interleaving to be taken off, but I think you need to get to a better point than a 10db margin. How often do you lose sync, whereabouts in the country are you (this affects ping times too)?

[RA-1972]

Hi i am down in devon newton abbot about 1 k from exchange , i will check me phone sockets etc ..



ping www.idnet.net

Pinging www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=59

Ping statistics for 212.69.36.10:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 36ms, Maximum = 38ms, Average = 37ms

ping www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.co.uk [212.58.251.201] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.58.251.201: bytes=32 time=37ms TTL=249
Reply from 212.58.251.201: bytes=32 time=37ms TTL=249
Reply from 212.58.251.201: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=249
Reply from 212.58.251.201: bytes=32 time=38ms TTL=249

Ping statistics for 212.58.251.201:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 37ms, Maximum = 38ms, Average = 37ms




Edit: Personal data removed

[Rik]

Fairly consistent. See if you can reduce noise pickup on the line, particularly disconnect the ring wire if you have multiple extensions. Don't use flat extensions cables from electrical stores, only round ones.

There's a guide here on things you can do.

[RA-1972]

Just removed the ring wire  a improvement on the pings cheers RIK....

ping www.idnet.net

Pinging www.idnet.net [212.69.36.10] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=31ms TTL=59
Reply from 212.69.36.10: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=59

Ping statistics for 212.69.36.10:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 29ms, Maximum = 31ms, Average = 30ms

ping www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.co.uk [212.58.251.201] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.58.251.201: bytes=32 time=33ms TTL=249
Reply from 212.58.251.201: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=249
Reply from 212.58.251.201: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=249
Reply from 212.58.251.201: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=249

Ping statistics for 212.58.251.201:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 29ms, Maximum = 33ms, Average = 30ms



Edit: Personal data removed

[Rik]

Try re-booting the router in the morning, there's a good chance you'll pick up a higher sync speed by then.

[Lance]

It would be good to see a new set of stats from the router now the ring wire is removed, too.

[RA-1972]

DSL Status: UP 
DSL Modulation Mode: Auto 
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED 
Downstream Rate: 4928 Kbps 
Upstream Rate: 448 Kbps 
Downstream Margin: 10 db 
Upstream Margin: 22 db 
Downstream Line Attenuation: 23 
Upstream Line Attenuation: 26 
Downstream Transmit Power: 19 
Upstream Transmit Power: 11 
LOS Errors: 0 

[Rik]

It looks like your line is still susceptible to noise. See what a morning re-sync brings. If the speed goes significantly higher, there's more work to be done.

[old Bill]

Talking of Interleaving, there is a Enta reseller out there which lets you turn your Interleaving on or off from your control panel. Sounds good but you could mess up your line if you dont know what you are doing.

[old Bill]

No problems with my line, (for a change) have been up and running with Idnet for 2 days now just wondered how my error count was looking ?

DSL Cumulative Errored Seconds:   7157   46   22   0:00:11
DSL Severely Errored Seconds:   195   0   0   0:36:03
DSL Corrected Blocks:   0   0   0   0:00:00
DSL Uncorrected Blocks:   17993   132   79   0:00:11

connected 2 days 2 hours

[Rik]

One error every 244 seconds, if my maths is right, Bill. I'd be slightly concerned about 9,000 uncorrected blocks per day though.

[RA-1972]

DSL Status: UP 
DSL Modulation Mode: Auto 
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED 
Downstream Rate: 5280 Kbps 
Upstream Rate: 448 Kbps 
Downstream Margin: 11 db 
Upstream Margin: 21 db 
Downstream Line Attenuation: 23 
Upstream Line Attenuation: 26 
Downstream Transmit Power: 19 
Upstream Transmit Power: 11 
LOS Errors: 0 


Its a bit higher today i will do some more checks tomorrow , seeing i am connected to the master socket do i need to remove the bell wire from all the other sockets too ? would that help ?

[Lance]

Removing the ring (or bell) wire from all sockets may well help, depending on your wiring set up. Certainly no harm in disconnecting it!

[Rik]

I'd definitely vote for removing the ring wire.

[RA-1972]

just a quicky if i want interleaved removed who do i ask bt or isp ?

[Rik]

ISP, BT won't even talk to you about it.

[RA-1972]

Ty m8.

[g7pkf]

Ask very nicely isp that is.

get it either removed or reduced (BT can put pretty nasty levels of interleaving on)

[RA-1972]

still interleaved but my sync rate has gone right up heres my latest  bt speedtest.



Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  7616 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 5463 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.

Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.

[Rik]

The profile is right for the sync speed, but your throughput is still a little low. It could be down to exchange congestion or it might be that some tweaking of MTU & RWIN would help.

[g7pkf]

I think i speak for both of us Rik.

JEALOUS JEALOUS JEALOUS.


wish i could have line stats like that.

[RA-1972]

lol cheers m8.

[RA-1972]

would this make u better . ? ]speed test NOT![/url]

[Malc]

I'm learning about all this speed test stuff, but what I can't understand is when I ran it I get

[Malc]

This states 5821 down, but I know I can get 7616, help, what am I doing wrong?

[Lance]

That speedtester is highly inaccurate at times. I tend to find the BT one is the most accurate, although sometimes a right pain to actually run!

You say you can get 7616 - is that your sync speed? If so, that will put you on a 6500 profile on which throughput should hit a maximum of 6290 (after allowing for overheads). You can see the sync speed and resultant profiles here.

Hope this helps!

[Malc]

No idea what a sync speed is, this is all new to me, 762 is the highest I've had when DL from p2p with loads of seeds.

Also I'm using a modem ATM (ordered a 585 router today) and the modem says 7616

How do I find out what my sync is? Do I need the router?

Sorry for lots of questions


edit - trying to run the BT speed test, it says "checking user details" for the last 5 mins, it's locked up I think, I've never got past that stage

[Lance]

The modem is reporting 7616, which is your sync speed

A sync speed is the speed at which you have connected to your local BT exchange. From this sync speed you get a profile (see the link in my above post). Once you have taken overheads off the profile speed, you get to the actual speed you can get. Can you see how one feeds into the other? The maximum sync speed on a BT line at present is 8128kbps, so you're not far off that! 

Don't worry about the questions - ask away! 

edit: Most people get sucess from the BT speedtest using IE (rather than Firefox). If it still doesn't work, all I can suggest is trying again later. It gets very busy and often doesn't seem to be moving anywhere

[Malc]

It's finished, first time I've managed it
Here's the results

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 832 kbps(UP-STREAM)  7616 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 5701 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.

Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.

 

[Lance]

Your actual throughput is a little lower than I would expect, but not by much. It could just be that the BT speedtest is busy, or that there is congestion at your local BT exchange. Finally, we could also try tweaking some settings to make sure you are getting the best from your line, but that is a little more advanced!

[Malc]

Thanks Lance,

I'll wait till I get the router in a couple of days, then run it again, I am using a 4 year old modem ATM, maybe that's the problem.

[Lance]

It might not be helping things 

[Malc]

Exciting. I have my router, I managed to set it up, now to try to run the BT test.

[Rik]

Good luck, Malc - see you in a week.

[Malc]

http://www.speedtest.net/result/230809905.png

I have this, still not completley happy, it's gone from 5821 to 6341, but I know I can DL at 762

BT wont work. Suprise suprise.

[Rik]

TBH, I don't trust that speed test much, Malc. Best way, imo, is to find a reliable site and download a large file, stopwatch in hand.

[Malc]

Thanks Rik

OH NO J!ll's in, I'll hide in this thread

Sorry, off topic.


OK off to look at some well seeded p2p sites.

[RA-1972]

Rik do you think i should ask idnet too turn my interleaved off and see what happens ?

[Rik]

Remind me what your attenuation and noise margin are like, would you?

[RA-1972]

   
  Software Version: 1.09
ADSL Version: 6.0.2.0 
Boot Code Version: 0.01
MAC Address: 00-1C-10-00-EB-35 
   
DSL Status
     
  DSL Status: UP 
DSL Modulation Mode: Auto 
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED 
Downstream Rate: 7616 Kbps 
Upstream Rate: 448 Kbps 
Downstream Margin: 14 db 
Upstream Margin: 23 db 
Downstream Line Attenuation: 21 
Upstream Line Attenuation: 24 
Downstream Transmit Power: 19 
Upstream Transmit Power: 11 
LOS Errors: 0 
   
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Rik]

Noise margin is still very high, so BT may not be willing to remove interleaving. Drop support an email, see what they say.

[Malc]

How do I get info like that from the router?

[RA-1972]

I have got a new adsl and phone filter comeing tomorrow from adsl nations so i will see what i get then .

[Rik]

OK, let us know will you? It all adds to the database of what is good and what to avoid.

[RA-1972]

yeah will update tomorrow.

[Rik]

How do I get info like that from the router?

Log in to the web interface of the router, then navigate to Broadband Connection > Details. It's P61 of the manual I have here.

[RA-1972]

   
  Software Version: 1.09
ADSL Version: 6.0.2.0 
Boot Code Version: 0.01
MAC Address: 00-1C-10-00-EB-35 
   
DSL Status
     
  DSL Status: UP 
DSL Modulation Mode: Auto 
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED 
Downstream Rate: 7616 Kbps 
Upstream Rate: 448 Kbps 
Downstream Margin: 15 db 
Upstream Margin: 23 db 
Downstream Line Attenuation: 21 
Upstream Line Attenuation: 24 
Downstream Transmit Power: 19 
Upstream Transmit Power: 11 
LOS Errors: 0 

is that any better.

[RA-1972]

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  7616 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 5399 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.

Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.

 

[Malc]

Log in to the web interface of the router, then navigate to Broadband Connection > Details. It's P61 of the manual I have here.

There's nothing in programmes been installed, and nothing in start up.

Didn't get a manual with it, I will have a look on the cd when I get home, see if I have any clue then

[Rik]

You don't need a program, Malc, just use your browser to go to the web interafce (which you would have done when you put in your login details).

[Inactive]

It is usually something like 192.168.2.1 or similar Malc, dependant on the brand of router.

[Malc]

That'll probably be the home page it defalted to when I installed it then? Which I changed back to my normal one thinking it was just advertising their stuff.

IN It's a speedtouch 585 v6 I think, isn't it Rik?

You can tell I'm not so bright with this, can't you

[Rik]

http://192.168.1.254 is the address you want, Malc.

[Malc]

http://192.168.1.254 is the address you want, Malc.

I'll have a look when I get home

[bob_s]

I think I may have to get a better router, my old and trusty netgear dg814 doesnt have any snr information available.  And I have tried looking.

This is what I am currenty getting

With BT SpeetTest at
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 5000 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  5376 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4196 kbps

But afer just removing the bell wire from the master socket the router is now syncing a little quicker.

But is it a little unwise to use fast mode without knowing the snr??
And if I get a newer router, can the sync speeds be reset if the new router is able to handle the snr and connect at a better speed??  EG can I request another 10 days settling in period.

I think a problem with IDNet is once you know you can get a good connection it just seems to only make sense to get the best out of it, something I would never have contemplated with Pipex.

[Inactive]

http://192.168.1.254 is the address you want, Malc.

Almost right then, well sort of.. 

[Rik]

I had to PDF manual to cheat from, In.

[Rik]

With BT SpeetTest at
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 5000 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  5376 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4196 kbps

Your profile is OK for the sync speed, Bob, but the throughput is low, which suggests you may have a lot of errors on the line, in which case you don't want to get interleaving turned off.

A newer router, eg an 834, might be a good investment as you could then plot the noise margin with Routerstats, and see what is happening over a period.

[RA-1972]

F.A.O Rik

Is my noise margins any better or worse i get confused thats put new NTE 2005 faceplate on ?


Software Version: 1.09
ADSL Version: 6.0.2.0 
Boot Code Version: 0.01
MAC Address: 00-1C-10-00-EB-35 
   
DSL Status
     
  DSL Status: UP 
DSL Modulation Mode: Auto 
DSL Path Mode: INTERLEAVED 
Downstream Rate: 7616 Kbps 
Upstream Rate: 448 Kbps 
Downstream Margin: 11 db 
Upstream Margin: 23 db 
Downstream Line Attenuation: 21 
Upstream Line Attenuation: 24 
Downstream Transmit Power: 19 
Upstream Transmit Power: 11 
LOS Errors: 0 

[Rik]

Normally I'd say it's better, as it's dropped from 15db to 11db. However, in your case, you're synching as fast as you can with interleaving on, so there appears to have been a reduction in the 'headroom' you have, though that could be explained by the earlier figure being in the morning and this one in the evening.

[Malc]

Hi Rik,
I'm now looking at mt network details, as follows:
Is it as to be expected?
Thanks Malc.

Link Information
   

Uptime: 1 day, 1:07:07

Modulation: G.992.1 annex A

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 832 / 8,096

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 751.78 / 449.45

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 19.5

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 17.0 / 30.0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 8.0 / 9.5

Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): 0

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 63,305

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 41

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 33





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[RA-1972]

Have you tried a bt speedtest with your new router ?

[Malc]

Many times..... yawn.....


If I EVER get it to finish I will post the results

[Rik]

Looks pretty good, Malc. You're just shy of a full-speed sync, but you have interleaving on, so you're doing better than you should be. With that number of errors, 63K in 25 hours, I wouldn't recommend getting interleaving turned off, especially when it's having minimal impact on speed. Of course, if you want faster pings, you may feel differently, but I'd opt for the better stability myself.

[Malc]

Is the number of errors wrong pages, because I have peer guardian turned on and it could be this stopping nosey intruders, that are the errors

[Rik]

No, the errors are FEC (forward error correction), a sign that interleaving is having to work to fix broken blocks of data before they reach you, Malc.

[Malc]

  Rik, I'll leave things as they are, 'cos

a, I'm more than happy with the speeds I get  and
B, I havn't got a bleeding clue what I'm doing 

[Rik]

Two good reasons, Malc. I would certainly leave things in your position, the interleaving isn't getting in the way but it is doing its job.

[RA-1972]

Its getting better check previous bt speed test on this thread.




Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  7616 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 6074 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.

Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.

[Lance]

Great stuff - I'm jealous! 

[Rik]

That's close to the fastest you can get on that profile, nothing to worry about, lots to be jealous of.

[g7pkf]

 

ME JEALOUS.

cant wait for the extn to get finished so i can re-wire the house.

found today a 30metre length of FLAT telephone cable hidden away running to an extension socket not isolated by my wireless idea.

mapped out the house and its one giant aerial. glad i put wireless repeaters in to cut out most of the wiring.

[Rik]

Ouch! 30m - I bet you can get lots of radio stations on your wiring Dean.