Slow speeds after moving house

[Mouseroo]

Hello people,

Well, I've almost finished moving house, and IDNet were their usual efficient selves in setting me up at my new address, but there's a problem...
I have been connected for just over 24 hours, and my speeds are poor to say the least.  The results of a BT speedtester are:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 250 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 320 kbps(UP-STREAM)  160 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 95 kbps

I realise that it can take several days for a line to "settle in", and I know that the wiring in this (my new) house is older than that in my old house, but the previous ISP at this address was reaching a 4meg download speed.  Also, I have only moved about half a mile down the road, so distance to the exchange is still less than 1 mile total.  Speed at the old house was always over 6meg!
I have seen on this thread that others have had some sporadic speed issues, so I was looking to the experience of these forums for a bit of advice on the matter:  Do I need to contact IDNet yet, or should I leave the connection for a few more days?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Simon]

Have you tried rebooting the router?  That's about as far as my expertise goes, so hopefully someone will be along later to help you further. 

[Simon]

By the way, I've created a new thread, as I don't think it's to do with the issues of the other day. 

[Mouseroo]

Thanks for the new thread, Simon. 

I've tried rebooting the router (Netgear DG834 v2 for what it's worth) and also the PC, but to no avail.

It's like being back on dial-up!  Memories I thought I'd thoroughly repressed 

[Mouseroo]

For those who understand such witchcraft, here are my modem stats:

ADSL Link              Downstream  Upstream
Connection Speed  160 kbps       416 kbps
Line Attenuation    48 db           15.5 db
Noise Margin         10 db           6 db


It's all gibberish to me, but the downstream connection speed looks awfully slow   

[Lance]

Hi Andy

There is something seriously wrong here - I would expect you to be getting at least the 4mb, but probably a little higher than that. So you are right in suspecting the downstream to be looking slow!

Have you tried removing the ring wire from all sockets and double checked that everything connected is done so through a filter?

Do you have a NTE5 rype master socket, where the bottom half unscrews to reveal the test socket? If so, if you could connect the router to the test socket and post your stats, this may help us confirm its your internal wiring.

[Mouseroo]

Hi Lance,

I checked that all sockets have a filter in place - they do.
Wouldn't know a ring wire if it walked up to me and slapped me, but I'll do some Googling and get back to you on that 
Can't tell if the master socket is of type NTE5 - buried behind a mountain of boxes, so will have to check in the morning.
I can confirm that the router is not plugged into the master socket, but an upstairs extension.  That is the only difference I am aware of from the setup in my old house.  I'll plug the router into the master socket (the test socket if possible) and give it another whirl.

I'll get the results up in the next day or two, but in the meantime, thanks for the help! 

[Lance]

Taken from our FAQ:

If your figures do improve, then the chances are that your internal wiring, or devices attached to the line, are adding noise to your line. One of the most common causes of this is the so-called ring, or bell, wire. This wire is a hangover from the days when phones had physical bells, and needed a hefty current to make them ring. Modern phones do not generally need the ring wire, and the current required to ring a bell is generated by micro filters in any case. What the wire does do is act as a big antenna to collect noise and radio signals and, thus, worsen your ADSL connection. The only two wires you need are the exchange pair, which are connected to terminals 2 & 5.

The ring wire is connected on terminal 3 at all sockets, and is usually, but not always, coloured orange/white, you can see it on the second photo below, courtesy of forum member 'Jimbo'.

However, go by the terminal number, not the colour, and wriggle the wire out from terminal 3 at every socket, and then take another look at your figures from the socket where you normally connect. Have they improved? If so, pat yourself on the head as you’ve just mastered the art of getting the most from your line.

[Sebby]

Something is seriously wrong here! 

Can't tell if the master socket is of type NTE5 - buried behind a mountain of boxes, so will have to check in the morning.

I appreciate that the socket might be difficult to get to, so do this when you get a chance. If the socket looks like this, then it's an NTE5 master socket, and we're in luck. 

Remove the front plate (as shown in the picture, but be gentle as the extension wiring will be connected inside the socket to this plate). Behind the plate, you'll see a socket; this is the test socket. Connect the router to this, then repost the stats.

What this does is eliminate your internal wiring as the cause (which is prone to picking up noise, and hence low sync).

Of course, it may be the case that things don't actually improve, but don't worry. I think that IDNet will be able to raise it with BT if you've tried the test socket and still have the poor results as it proves that there is something wrong on BT's side, rather than in your property.

[Rik]

Hi Andy

Lance and Sebby have given you good advice, you have a serious issue. The likelihood is that it's your internal phone wiring, so you need to have a good look at that before contacting IDNet. However, if you can't find the problem, contact them with a few BT speed tests, and they'll check the line for you. If, however, they get a BT engineer out to you and he finds the fault on your side of the master socket, it's going to cost you £160+.

[Barndog]

I have just read about the ring wire in sockets, do you mean every socket in the house ie.wher you plug tvs, microwaves, even the sockets upstaires in bedrooms, or is it just the 1 phone socket which i would have out in the hall?

[Rik]

Every phone socket. The ring wire acts as an antenna, so leaving it connected at either end can pull in the noise.

[Si]

I have just read about the ring wire in sockets, do you mean every socket in the house ie.wher you plug tvs, microwaves, even the sockets upstaires in bedrooms, or is it just the 1 phone socket which i would have out in the hall?

Don't confuse the ring wire with the ring main. I suspect disconnecting that wouldn't improve your online experience! 

[Rik]

Good point, Other.

[Si]

Good point, Other.

Don't confuse people! I've already tried to make it clear I'm not the Other. 

[Rik]

Oh, sorry, if you're not that, and not the other, you must be the Simon.

[Si]

Well, one of them....

[Simon]

We're on a mission to take over the forum!

[Rik]

Simons are forever? 

[MoHux]

It's simple really .............. 

[Mouseroo]

Thanks for all the additional info, folks - it's greatly appreciated! 

It appears that the master socket is of type NTE5 - there is another socket behind the front plate (offset to the right).  I connected my router into the test socket and there was no increase in speed.  However, I couldn't run a BT speedtest at that point because it thought I had already run one and demanded that I wait for 3 hours   
I'll give it another whirl tomorrow and get some fresh modem stats as well whilst I'm plugged into the test socket.

[Lance]

It's good that you have the NTE5, it helps a lot in fault finding!

Once you posted the test socket stats, we can advise further.

[Sebby]

It appears that the master socket is of type NTE5 - there is another socket behind the front plate (offset to the right).  I connected my router into the test socket and there was no increase in speed. 

It's not the speed we're overly interested in at this stage as your profile will take a few days to update to match the new sync rate. What we need to see is the stats when connected to the master socket.

I'm looking forward to seeing the stats tomorrow.

[Mouseroo]

Hello again,

I have connected my router directly into the test socket again, and managed to run a BT speed test and get the router stats.  Here are the results:

BT speed test:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 135 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  1216 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 114 kbps


Router stats:
ADSL Link              Downstream  Upstream
Connection Speed   1216 kbps     448 kbps
Line Attenuation     38 db           15.5 db
Noise Margin          11 db           10 db

I hope these numbers mean something to somebody, because this sort of thing definitely isn't my calling 
If there's any other information I can post which might be helpful, then just let me know.

Thanks again to everyone who's helped - I really appreciate it. 

[Sebby]

Ignore the ridiculous speed; that's because the profile is still reflecting your original sync rate.

Your sync is significantly better, but poor given your attenuation figure. Strangely, your attenuation has dropped by 10dB to 38dB, which is probably more accurate than when you were connected to an extension socket. If your attenuation was still 48dB, these stats that you've posted would be quite poor. But with attenuation of 38dB, they're really poor, especially since they were read from the test socket. Really, you should be getting in excess of 4Mb sync (probably by a fair bit, too).

To top it all off, it looks like your target SNRM has been pushed up as the exchange must have thought your line was unstable (which, in an extension socket, it is), but even if this was at its default level (6dB), things would still be fairly poor for your line.

The only thing I can suggest you try is another router, but finding one to borrow is not always easy, I know. I'd also say it's unlikely that there is anything wrong with your current router, though it's always possible.

Unless anyone else can suggest anything else, I would get onto IDNet about this tomorrow. Even if you're not sure what any of this means, just tell them what your original figures were, then tell them what happened when you connected to the test socket. They'll know that something is wrong. They can do a line test, and escalate it to BT if they deem it appropriate.

I hope this helps.

[Mouseroo]

Hi Sebby,

Many thanks for the prompt reply 
I may be able to dig out my old router, but that poor old thing was getting a bit 'twitchy' which is why I replaced it.  I'm sure that nothing sinister has happened to my current router during the house move, and it has served me faithfully for a couple of years at my old house, so I'm tempted to rule it out of the equation.
But just to be sure, if I can find the old router (and make it work with a bit of percussive maintenance), then I'll give it a try.
Failing that, I'll get straight into IDNet tomorrow.

Thanks again for your help.  Have a well earned karma 

[Sebby]

No problem.

Like I say, I'd be extremely surprised if it was the router, so if it's a pain to get the other router out, I wouldn't bother.

IDNet will be able to advise you further, but I think we've safely ruled out there being an internal issue.

Thanks for the karma, and let us know how you get on.

[Lance]

I agree with Sebby! The fact that plugged into the test socket your sync speed is still low for what would be expected for your attenuation (my guess 5-6mb), there must be a problem on the line.

If you point support at this thread, they will be able to see what you have done so far and get BT to test the line. Whether or not BT admit there is a fault is a different matter!

[Sebby]

Whether or not BT admit there is a fault is a different matter!

Yes indeed. The results from the test socket aren't atrocious per se, but given the attenuation, they're very poor. If any ISP can get BT to take an interest, it's IDNet, so you're in good hands, Andy.

[Rik]

They may be constrained by the 10-day training period, of course, but these figures are so far out of kilter with the line attenuation, I'd hope even BT would admit all is not well.

[Mouseroo]

Thanks for the information, everyone.  I have just logged a call with IDNet and pointed them to this thread, and mentioned that I would post some more speed test and router stats results.

I plugged my router back into the upstairs extension socket and ran another BT speedtest.  Here are those results:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 135 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 352 kbps(UP-STREAM)  192 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 120 kbps

And here are my router stats:
ADSL Link               Downstream  Upstream
Connection Speed    192 kbps      352 kbps
Line Attenuation      48 db          15.5 db
Noise Margin            8 db            6 db

[Sebby]

The results from the extension socket are, quite frankly, an absolute joke. Whilst we proved that your internal wiring is degrading the ADSL signal a fair bit (you managed to achieve a sync rate that was at least verging on sensible in the test socket) it's clear that the problem lies a lot deeper, and is exacerbated by the extension wiring.

Hopefully the fault will be a nice easy one, somewhere in BT's network (most probably the cable to your property). Like I said before, if any ISP can get BT to sort it, it's IDNet.

[Lance]

Those really are painful stats!

[Mouseroo]

Hello again,

IDNet chased up BT for me and their testing concluded that there was nothing wrong with my phone connection 
They advised me to leave my router plugged in to the master socket for upto 3 days.  It has now been plugged in for about 4 hours, and the BT speedtest shows that my downstream profile is indeed increasing 
Here are the results:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 135 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4576 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 116 kbps

And my modem stats:

ADSL Link          Downstream     Upstream
Connection Speed    4576 kbps    448 kbps
Line Attenuation      26 db       8 db
Noise Margin          10 db       20 db


What I am confused about is the actual throughput speed.  Why is this still so slow?  I am using exactly the same equipment I used at my old address (where I was averaging over 6meg).  Should I expect the throughput to increase over the next few days?

Thanks in advance.

[Sebby]

Welcome back, Andy. Well it looks to me that BT have done something as your stats are good and you have a good sync. It could be higher with such a good attenuation figure, but that's for another day. 

Your actual speed won't be any different at the moment yet as the profile has not had a chance to update from 135k. You should find in a couple of days that, assuming you hold this current level of sync, the profile will update to 4000k.  8)

Let us know how you get on over the next few days. Hopefully your issue is sorted, and it's just a matter of time before the profile adjusts.

[Mouseroo]

Hi Sebby,

That's great news, thank you! 
I'll see how things go over the next few days, and with any luck, I'll be able to download the hundreds of megabytes of updates which my poor old laptop is waiting for - REALLY didn't want to try it whilst 135kbps was the best speed I was getting 

Out of curiosity, does it affect your profile / sync / stability if you turn your router off at night, or do most people tend to leave them on (even if all attached PCs are powered down)?

Thanks again.

[Sebby]

Theoretically, it shouldn't make a difference. People tend to leave their routers switched on (myself included) because rate-adaptive products can be hit and miss sometimes and cause you unnecessary hassle. Plus, that's what routers are designed for.

As you are waiting for your profile to change, I'd recommend leaving it sync'd for the time being, just so the DLM sees the line as stable. After that, if you want to switch it off at night, that's okay.

[Mouseroo]

OK, will do.

Thanks again for all your help - it's greatly appreciated! 

[Sebby]

It's a pleasure.

[Lance]

If you are on a less than perfect line, I certainly recommend keeping it turned on. However, on a perfect line hitting 8128 no matter what time of day sync is made, turning off at night is fine

[Rik]

I wish.

[Malc]

I wish.

Probably worn your line out

[Rik]

Only my fingers so far...

[Inactive]

Probably worn your line out

OUCH !!!!

[Mouseroo]

Good news!

I have had my router connected to the master socket for 2 days, and the speed is starting to increase!
The BT speedtester results:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 3000 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  4128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2429 kbps


And my router stats:

ADSL Link                Downstream     Upstream
Connection Speed    4128 kbps    448 kbps
Line Attenuation      26 db          8 db
Noise Margin               10 db          23 db

Just ran another test at speedtest.net, and got a tad over 3meg    Progress!
Would like the speed to increase to over 4meg over the next few days, but after spending a week at 130kbps, I shan't complain too loudly 

Thanks again to everyone for their advice.  Have a good weekend.

[Lance]

Your sync speed of 4128 will give you a profile of 3500, which is 500 higher than you have at the moment.

It's worth mentioning that your noise margin appears to have been increased from 6 to 12, which will have an adverse effort on your sync speed. If you can keep the router connected with no loss of sync for 15 days, the target will drop by 3db to 9, and this will help give you a higher sync.

[Sebby]

Things are looking up, Andy. Your profile still needs to move a little. The throughput looks a little low for the current profile, but let's see what happens once it's at 3500k like it should be.

As Lance says, try and leave your router sync'd for 14/15 days then reboot it and hopefully your target SNRM will have dropped 3dB. Repeat this once more and you should be down to the default level of 6dB. This should give you quite a bit more sync.